KTaNE [game over!]

[Andresvmb]

I think catboi made so many reasonable arguments (such as the fact that they didn’t have to make themselves Defuser as Scum after pushing a mis-execution of Town and opening themselves up for getting blown up), and Frog buried their head so hard in the sand still, even after their claim, that I just can’t for the life of me understand why everyone isn’t just trying to build a world with Frog Scum now, and totally ignoring them.

[Andante]

I find it interesting how Mena's recap of the hood is so different from the others... like, I've been kinda suspicious of pooky, and that's where in a T/T world with VP and Pooky, I assumed VP was going to die last night, but now I'm wondering why scum!Pooky would save a town!VP, the sudden weird "yeah let's heal DW!!" yesterday honestly could just be pooky scum for why it seemed so odd to me, idk!!! but both Ceph and CSF gave off Pooky towny, then Mena is like "yeah pooky wasn't towny" so ehhh idk!!!


I'm LAUGHING so hard at frogster's claim... "all I have to do is live till day 5 to prove myself!!" you had no care about catboi living till D2 to prove himself... so why would you have till d5??

everyone has checked in, can frogster go bye bye now?

[Andante]

I'm LAUGHING so hard at frogster's claim... "all I have to do is live till day 5 to prove myself!!" you had no care about catboi living till D2 to prove himself... so why would you have till d5??

also, I'm not sure what's more clearing than an IC.... the fact you're not gonna die to a bomb? that's not even for sure a town role

[VP Baltar]

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.

Eh, not really what I asked you. I asked you to explain your vote on fire, as in what did you find scummy? And you basically said "well catboi wanted it and I trusted him," which of course looks to me like you're putting it on a dead player.

It definitely is what it is. What I am trying to assess is whether you found fire scummy or just wanted to save yourself, which doesn't even necessarily make you scum.

The biggest thing that points to you being scum is the sheer speed that people powered that wagon through based on catbois case. I was there and didn't even have time to fully read his case before people ended it!

As far as the lack of NK, I have no idea, but in your world pooky should be lock town, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

Lol oh that pedit was andante not andres

[Andante]

VP can you stop tunneling Andres? I'm pretty dang confident he's town after last night

[Andante]

why should pooky be lock town to me?

[Andante]

cause that whole "why would maf send VP to the group that wants to kill him" argument? it's exactly for that argument... like think about it, if someone is gonna be an easy lim, why send them to a bomb group anyways??

[Andante]

idk it's whatever, kill frogster and move on people

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know if all of catboi’s reads have been expressed into this thread, but they felt that Bell had to be Town because despite being wrong about Lukewarm, they aren’t usually that aggressive in pushing an execution as Scum. Apparently Bell is not a very confident Scum player, and pushing a Townie like that wouldn’t be something that catboi would have expected from them. There might have been some growth in their Scum game, but clearly there wasn’t as much aggression in Shakespeare U-Pick from them, so this would deviate from that. catboi also argued that Bell being upset at Frogsterking trying to heal Enchant was more in like with a Town thought process given how inconsequential one Heal vote can be. It was probably just a level of concern about the game and the outcome of it that was difficult to fake as Scum. 488 and 605 are also probably not how Bell would have addressed a Partner. 944, 946, 948 and 951 also probably point to Bell not being partnered with Frog under most circumstances.

[Enchant]

Unjester claim.

[Andresvmb]

That was catboi’s general thought process there. It appears most folks agree since they’re the top Expert vote getter, but at least expressing the views of a confirmed Town player could be helpful in the future.

[Andante]

lol sharing catboi's reads... I just gave the reads list so far

[Andresvmb]

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.

Eh, not really what I asked you. I asked you to explain your vote on fire, as in what did you find scummy? And you basically said "well catboi wanted it and I trusted him," which of course looks to me like you're putting it on a dead player.

It definitely is what it is. What I am trying to assess is whether you found fire scummy or just wanted to save yourself, which doesn't even necessarily make you scum.

The biggest thing that points to you being scum is the sheer speed that people powered that wagon through based on catbois case. I was there and didn't even have time to fully read his case before people ended it!

As far as the lack of NK, I have no idea, but in your world pooky should be lock town, yeah?

I did explain my vote on fire. I told you already I was sheeping catboi’s case. I didn’t care to save myself nearly as much as you think. I claimed because I got annoyed. There was a lot of bullshit being thrown my way, and it’s clear a lot of folks didn’t even want to let me finish reading the damn game before attacking my views.

I don’t care what you make of the speed of the wagon, I really don’t. You’re blaming me for all of the votes that followed catboi’s case, and that’s just unfair. Cephrir thought I was the hammer, and instead of waiting for a VC, both Frog and Menalque decided to plop votes down. Even after you had asked for calm (which I’m pretty sure happened after my vote). And Frog is outted as Scum. The fact that you’re grilling me like this but completely ignoring how the sequence actually occurred is baffling. And you’re continuing to argue that I’m aligned with Frog. And I have to tell you - it is the worst conclusion I have ever seen. Even when I wasn’t active, Frog was screaming for my head based on my supposed ability to help the Scum Team solve the game mechanically. Why in the world would my Partner ever do that? And one of the attacks was clearly shown to be in bad faith in real time (about how I only started reading in response to their pressure), and yet, you still think it’s possible we’ve been attacking each other like this this game. I’m honestly shocked you’re entertaining this.

[Andresvmb]

lol sharing catboi's reads... I just gave the reads list so far

Yeah but I think sharing the rationale is helpful too. Because catboi can’t be expected to have everything right. So maybe sharing the reasons is helpful. Like I wouldn’t just sheep a strong player all the time, but certainly if their reasoning was solid I would trust it.

[Andante]

oh Bell read was interesting!! and I think worth noting... I just got reminded.
Catboi was like: Bell is likely town, I questioned it, eventually agreed. So we're like "Bell is town"
and Greeting, disagreed with the Bell TR... I'm not calling Greeting maf for it, but I did find it weird, didn't strongly defend bell, but made it known he disagreed with our bell TR

(I feel like this is worth bringing up)

[Andante]

lol sharing catboi's reads... I just gave the reads list so far

Yeah but I think sharing the rationale is helpful too. Because catboi can’t be expected to have everything right. So maybe sharing the reasons is helpful. Like I wouldn’t just sheep a strong player all the time, but certainly if their reasoning was solid I would trust it.

yeah, I was gonna ask mena which rationale was most wanted cause mena is the only one seeming to care, but you can feel free to share it all lol it's just a lot

[Andresvmb]

I need to work I’ll be back later. I will try and continue to investigate the PT and reveal thinking I believe is Town-positive. Andante I think we should share catboi’s view on Cephrir in more detail, because we disagreed there, and some of the arguments that catboi shared against DW (and how some of their fighting around 530 through 661 read absolutely theatrical). catboi felt really strongly DW should be flipped after Frogsterking, for what it’s worth.

[Andresvmb]

I’m around Page 9 of the PT trying to read through and communicate what happened. I can get back to it later. I am assuming sharing details of the length of the PT isn’t against the rules but @Datisi you can let me know.

[Andresvmb]

Also, can I have the honor of hammering Frog? I really want to do it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i want to avenge catboi tho :<

[Andresvmb]

i want to avenge catboi tho :<

I protected you. You owe me.

[Bell]

I don’t know if all of catboi’s reads have been expressed into this thread, but they felt that Bell had to be Town because despite being wrong about Lukewarm, they aren’t usually that aggressive in pushing an execution as Scum. Apparently Bell is not a very confident Scum player, and pushing a Townie like that wouldn’t be something that catboi would have expected from them. There might have been some growth in their Scum game, but clearly there wasn’t as much aggression in Shakespeare U-Pick from them, so this would deviate from that. catboi also argued that Bell being upset at Frogsterking trying to heal Enchant was more in like with a Town thought process given how inconsequential one Heal vote can be. It was probably just a level of concern about the game and the outcome of it that was difficult to fake as Scum. 488 and 605 are also probably not how Bell would have addressed a Partner. 944, 946, 948 and 951 also probably point to Bell not being partnered with Frog under most circumstances.

>.> he’s correct.

[Bell]

Has everyone had a chance to post?

[Bell]

Though, even if frog flips town I’m still town.