KTaNE [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 3.03

• with
  16
  votes in play, it takes
  9
  to make a decision.
  
• day 3 ends in
  (expired on 2022-04-18 21:00:00)
  .
  
• 3
  players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n3.

execution:

Malakittens [6]:

Dwlee99, Cephrir, VP Baltar, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion

VP Baltar [4]:

Enchant, Menalque, Andante, Greeting

Dwlee99 [1]:

StrangeMatter

not voting [5]:

Mistyx, Andresvmb, Titus, Malakittens, Bell

bomb expert nominations:

VP Baltar [4]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Cephrir

Dwlee99 [2]:

GuiltyLion, Enchant

Titus [1]:

Enchant

Malakittens [1]:

Enchant

StrangeMatter [1]:

Enchant

not nominating [12]:

Andante, Mistyx, VP Baltar, Dwlee99, Greeting, Andresvmb, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque, Titus, Malakittens, StrangeMatter, Bell

ineligible to be nominated:

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, Cephrir, Bell, Mistyx, GuiltyLion

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

[VP Baltar]

I really left that on the table, damn.

[Dwlee99]

Can I get heal votes btw ty

[Enchant]

Don't kill him with votes.

Kill him with what then?

If he gets another bomb defusal opportunity

He doesh't.


And after we will get other defuse, someone will speak "So if VP+Other defuser is both scum, we are at danger!!! Let's kill all defusers from on!"

[Dwlee99]

Don't kill him with votes.

Kill him with what then?

If he gets another bomb defusal opportunity

He doesh't.


And after we will get other defuse, someone will speak "So if VP+Other defuser is both scum, we are at danger!!! Let's kill all defusers from on!"

Then we can revisit it tomorrow. I want to flip Mala

[Dwlee99]

pewpepwepwepwpewpepwepwepwepwpewpewpewwwwwwwwwwwwww

Did y'all know this is Mala's ONLY post on Day 2?

VOTE: mala

That was entertaining, let's lim scum now ty

Lolnope

And this is her only post on Day 3?

[Enchant]

So you want to kill VP anyway, but later?

Makes sense.

[VP Baltar]

HEAL: dwlee

[GuiltyLion]

if VP Baltar is scum, why would scum risk Misty or Bell or myself deciding to blow him up last night? Surely that's the worst possible outcome for scum? Misty gets towncred, they lose a member, town knows for sure that scum has had a defuse and extra NK?

I don't think an extra early defuse is necessarily worth that risk in a gamestate where scum haven't lost anybody yet - if Baltar is scum I would have expected a swap with somebody more widely townread rather than misty.

I'm not voting Baltar unless somebody convinces me why this is wrong

[StrangeMatter]

About the Dwlee TMI, it was mostly a gut feeling from reading their posts that feels very TMI-like but I can't really point to exactly why knowing the flips. Though I guess its also feeling of something similar to Dwlee!scum just constantly going with the consensus slots (Similar to where he sits there and allows people to just consensus onto wrong slots).

I would like you to cite actual posts please.

Not great at citing posts (or in general) but okay.

#1006
#1404
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13316311
#2810

This part pinged my gut as a little TMI-like with the read on someone I don't feel like has been neither scummy nor really townie, even checking the slot before them doesn't really give me a lot to work with.

Where's the TMI unless I'm bussing mala here?

What I mean is with how my read is on them I don't understand the scumread on them. I really don't understand the scumread on it is where it smells TMI-ey. And your read on them is mentioned often but not explained to how you came to this conclusion. Although this is with most people on this wagon where its not explained to me why they're on Malakittens, it smells a little you have something, but looking back, I might just be completely wrong (Woo, potentially more really bad reads for this game) looking back at other posts.

Though I ask, what is your case on Malakittens?

[StrangeMatter]

Specifically what I mean from Day 1, since I noted in #2905 that you talked about them not talking at all (though that seems like a fairly surface read since lurking = scum is one of the most common assumptions ever to make).

[VP Baltar]

Praetorian had a scummy and awkward entrance to the game and then malakittens hasn't posted content for two days. They were on the fire mislim. That's the case.

[StrangeMatter]

And so we chose to wagon, instead of maybe doing the more logical conclusion for any of the 5 people on Malakittens right now, to say actually squeeze or prod content out of them? Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near this wagon. If it flips scum, fine, but you can count me out of being on this wagon.

[VP Baltar]

And so we chose to wagon, instead of maybe doing the more logical conclusion for any of the 5 people on Malakittens right now, to say actually squeeze or prod content out of them? Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near this wagon. If it flips scum, fine, but you can count me out of being on this wagon.

Well, my feeling is that the people leading us so far have gotten two miselims, so maybe we need to flip the script and be hunting elsewhere. I think my PoE is far more likely to hit scum than someone like Andante coming in and trying to push the same tired shit from D1.

I'm not sold on your dwlee TMI posts. But if you have other thoughts on where to lim, I'm listening. I personally think we should be looking at the fire wagon. There's a lot of focus on the flashy night game so far and not that much actual thought being put toward finding scum through day play analysis.

[Cephrir]

ill make an attempt to get us to think properly about this even though it never works

don't just give me "the fire wagon must have scum on it." tell me why specific votes were scummy. show me the motivation. whose votes were opportunistic vs. well reasoned and believable.

merely being on the wagon is not convincing to me because i wanted to run him up too, even though i didn't put my vote there. give me more.

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

[Cephrir]

fwiw i am mainly not after andres right now because of his claim + the pt shenanigans. i think his play has been extremely scummy

[Cephrir]

never mind, no one tried to votre him after he was already dead, i imagined that

[Cephrir]

fireisredsir [10]: Bell, Malakittens, catboi, Dwlee99, Titus, Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Frogsterking, Menalque [HAMMER]

show me some trajectories

i know bell's was great

some of these people are dead town or obvtown

don't just put mala/titus/dwlee/andres/mena is a tumbler and pick one out at random and so help me if anyone tries to use vote order without any context i will figuratively stuff them in the nearest woodchipper

[Cephrir]

wow mala's vote was cast by praet yikes

[Cephrir]

I'll be nominating town I consider better than me in this game to be the experts. I recommend you do the same for round 1.

HEAL: Frogsterking

???????

VOTE: Lukewarm

Let's see where it goes.

hello friends!! ive never been a replacement before this is fun

Curious to see what you do and how you play it.

Curious fire, what are your thoughts on me

VOTE: MT

maybe when you sign up for a game you have a commitment to read the entire fucking game

mena:

Baah!

VOTE: Andres

VOTE: fire
HEAL: catboi

this isn't super compelling

[VP Baltar]

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

Add Titus to this list.

[Cephrir]

1.) Scum is sitting idly while town just wins

Btw if this is the case the team is like...

Fire (luke slot), Mala (praet slot), Andres, and idk Titus?

So if we flip in there and keep hitting scum then fine by me but I'd like to not just assume that's the case

VOTE: Fire

Maybe strange could be as well cause I think they complained about me voting fire earlier?

didn't quote it but there was a simple but reasonable enough reason why dwlee suspected luke prior to this. this is like okay but not wildly impressive

There is an overwhelming consensus on a large number of slots being town. So either scum is just... letting that happen correctly, or there is a deep wolf.

Two worlds here:

1.) Scum is sitting idly while town just wins
2.) Consensus opinion of many townread slots is wrong

Now 1.) DOES happen, but with this table I think it's very unlikely. I don't think many of these players are ones to just let town win.

I don't think there's anything remotely close to "a large number" of slots bein townread for a 19 player game, and I think due to the number of players having a significant number of townreads is a pretty likely thing to happen. The thing about a 19 player game is that town could theoretically have a game-winning POE on day 1 (which is highly unlikely), and scum would still have significant wiggle room for players to push (in a 19p game you'd need 10 townreads, scum would still have 5 players they could push, I don't think we're anywhere close to 10 universal townreads). The only thing scum

really

care about, in my experience, is trying to get an elimination through on town. They're not going to try to argue down popular townreads because it tends to not produce results and they're probably planning on nightkilling some of those people.

Okay kinda fair

But then scum are doing fuck-all and probably just watching idly as fire dies so apply my other solve

i thought you said fire was scum in either solve

also, what is the status of these solves now?

Cause being wrong on Fire when sheeping Bell screaming into the void makes me scum

But being right on Frogs on a push

I started and formulated

makes me scum. Fucking hell

i don't think "sheeping bell" is a good description of the story your posts have told. this feels like shirking responsibility to me

[Cephrir]

HEAL: fireisredsir

Slight Lean Town
{Lukewarm, StrangeMatter, Titus, Andante}

right, so who are the 5?

CSF, Frog, fire (they’ve now gone back on it), Bell (also have largely retracted their SR), VPB. Off the top of my head. Menalque to some extent too.

VOTE: fire

wow this is terrible

[StrangeMatter]

ill make an attempt to get us to think properly about this even though it never works

don't just give me "the fire wagon must have scum on it." tell me why specific votes were scummy. show me the motivation. whose votes were opportunistic vs. well reasoned and believable.

merely being on the wagon is not convincing to me because i wanted to run him up too, even though i didn't put my vote there. give me more.

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

Literally already said this but I believe Dwlee and Titus' votes were probably the most opportunistic jumps onto the wagon. I don't buy the excuse with Lukewarm posting a readslist then replacing with "they didn't explain their reads so I vote here" which still comes off to me as a means to hop on. Titus' vote is just never explained in the slightest why they were even on the wagon in the first place. Need to reread the other ones and look at others but these are these two are probably my most suspicious of from that wagon.

@Titus, why did you join into the Fire wagon?

[Cephrir]

mena's vote makes sense, he suspected the slot all day and i already think mena is town from pt stuff

having a decent trajectory isn't clearing or anything but it's better than not having one