Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Enchant]

I never understand logic of ignoring traitors, because they still are mafs and traitor lim is better than town lim.

[Nero Cain]

well that's true

[MalcolmTucker]

Wow, some game that in the end.

Can't believe all the D2 stuff was mostly town arguing among ourselves. Galron push was actually reasonable at that point, knew something was weird about the pushes for me and VP.

[MalcolmTucker]

Can't believe tenebros and Yeet basically had things right at the start too. Good recovery early on from Datisi.

[Yeet]

I think skitter being scum was honestly just really unlucky. I think it would’ve been terrible play to lim there D2. On D4 onwards I think is when they can start seriously considering the lim…

Also the fact that I am gated like 3-4 times is kind of ridiculous.

[Yeet]

Okay I am gated

Because of Traitor, false negative
People can kill the same night, false negative
Mafia know I exist
I’m 3-shot

At this point if there are that many ways for me to generate false innos with scum having knowing of me I might as well just not be in this game

[Datisi]

town with too many power roles complains about not having even more power, what else is new

[Yeet]

The mafia knowing I exist part is significant because then obviously they have their scummiest player do the kill which makes the chance of me getting a false inno even higher. I thought it was close to a 25% that I convenient choose skitter maybe even lower because skitter Im might be more likely to get tracked. Turns out it was way higher which makes my inno a lot more meaningless. I’m not sure that telling mafia about my existence was necessary unless the goal was essentially to make me neg util

[Yeet]

town with too many power roles complains about not having even more power, what else is new

[Yeet]

Anyway congrats to scum and thanks for the mod Mizzy and duck! All in all a fun game.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah that was a superb game, gutted I was out fairly early on since it was fantastic fun. Cheers for running.

[Yeet]

i might just be very stingy with my claims, but i def would not have

no idea what is correct tho, and i understand doing it

I think it was a judgment call. The fact that he had 2 shots left makes me think he shouldn't have done it though I deff understand why he thought that it was a likely inno on Skitter/Galron and was maybe worried that he'd look bad @ claim time if he didn't speak up.

also a little confused why I was shot. I think scum could have still got me with a bunch of bad town pushing me and my claim might sound suspicious considering that I wasn't on HEM n1.

Yeah it’s a tough decision. The issue is my remaining shots are less and less useful. The first one is the most important and I thought it was important to stop the most important one because that’s the main info I feel good about.

[Dwlee99]

I didn't weigh in before because I didn't play in the game for most of it, but the fact that there were 3 people confirmed not group scum in a 7p ELO is a pretty good indicator that the town power roles were very strong in this game.

[Aristeia]

I think all of Frogster/Galron/Eyes slots were very elimmable off just dayplay and if town had focussed on that without any mech considerations they should've won this game.

[Mizzytastic]

For the people talking about balance negatively do you think this game was particularly egregious or just symptomatic of where NRG balance is at? If I can make games that still hit what the NRG wants but also feel fairer to the players then I want to do that.

[Datisi]

I think all of Frogster/Galron/Eyes slots were very elimmable off just dayplay and if town had focussed on that without any mech considerations they should've won this game.

this is kind of a very bad argument because if town really played "without any mech considerations", they would've elim'd through two masons and a vigilante.

[Aristeia]

For the people talking about balance negatively do you think this game was particularly egregious or just symptomatic of where NRG balance is at? If I can make games that still hit what the NRG wants but also feel fairer to the players then I want to do that.

In general I am not a big fan of strong mech guilties as it detracts from the dayplay element of the game.

Vig/Masons is 3 slots that can self-conftown fairly reliably

with a doctor in the mix, mafia cannot confident kill them at night as they do not have a strongman.

I feel the game was mechanically very skewed against scum as scum shot PRs every single night - Mason, Doctor, Psych, TA, Mason, Vig and still barely won with a [3/7 cleared pool] and very little room to breathe.

There should be some allowance built into the game where scum can miss and hit a vt and still win.

[Aristeia]

I think all of Frogster/Galron/Eyes slots were very elimmable off just dayplay and if town had focussed on that without any mech considerations they should've won this game.

this is kind of a very bad argument because if town really played "without any mech considerations", they would've elim'd through two masons and a vigilante.

Mech considerations such as vig/mason and psych results are not the same thing however.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah I think town had plenty of good chances there, just too much suspicion on the wrong people at the wrong times. Two turns largely focused on VP gave mafia a huge amount of breathing room I'd say.

[Datisi]

I feel the game was mechanically very skewed against scum as scum shot PRs every single night - Mason, Doctor, Psych, TA, Mason, Vig and still barely won with a [3/7 cleared pool] and very little room to breathe.

this is in addition to the fact that both investigatives hit false negatives on night 1. i think in majority of other scenarios, this game is won for town via power roles.

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyone know how regular 15+ player games tend to be? I think they're my favourite, enjoy the chaos of lots going on and trying to figure out everything, even if I'm mostly inevitably wrong.

[Enchant]

I REPLACED IN VIG WHO CLAIMED D1.

[MathBlade]

I feel the game was mechanically very skewed against scum as scum shot PRs every single night - Mason, Doctor, Psych, TA, Mason, Vig and still barely won with a [3/7 cleared pool] and very little room to breathe.

this is in addition to the fact that both investigatives hit false negatives on night 1. i think in majority of other scenarios, this game is won for town via power roles.

I agree and I think it’s a symptom of NRG.

The main question I would ask is how do scum win here, what is their path to victory?

[Save The Dragons]

lez go scum hope i helped

gg thanks for the mod, mods

[MathBlade]

With a few well placed bullets, the

mafia

win.

The winners are

Frogsterking,

Mafia Goon

Dwlee99,

Mafia Informed Neighbor

Save The Dragons,

Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

along with the deceased

Titus,

Mafia 2-Shot Alien

MegAzumarill,

Mafia 4-Shot Combined Follower Gunsmith

The remaining members of the town die in the endgame.

DeasVail,

Vanilla Townie

April Ludgate,

Vanilla Townie

tenebrousluminary

Vanilla Townie

They join

GeneralWu,

Vanilla Townie

humaneatingmonkey,

Town Mason

MalcolmTucker,

Vanilla Townie

Yeet,

Town 3-Shot Psychologist

VP Baltar,

Town Ascetic Neighbor

Nero Cain,

Town Indecisive Doctor Neighbor

Enchant,

Town 2-Shot Vigilante

Cape90,

Town Neighbor

fireisredsir,

Town Traffic Analyst

MathBlade,

Town Mason

Scorpious,

Vanilla Townie

Let’s treat the traitor as group scum for simplicity first

14 v 5.
12 v 5
10 v 5
8 v 5
6 v 5
4 v 5

Scum need 6 miselims to win.
Town had 2 masons, psychologist, doctor, TA, vig << All are forced kills for a viable elo.
One could argue ascetic might be (but again I am being generous)

This means scum have to kill a PR on N1 with no info for a fair shot at Elo.

They got lucky/were good the wagons were masons but I wouldn’t approve the setup.