Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[MathBlade]

Masons + vig = 3 innos.

Assume no protective to make things simple and mass claim D1 and Roleblocker to be most beneficial to your case.
Assume scum gets a miselim every day.
Assume remaining town are all VTs.

12 alive
End of D1 11 alive
End of D2 9 alive
Start of D3 8 alive
End of D3 7 alive so if scum get a kill off they win. So D3 would be melo/elo with a guaranteed conf town no matter how you slice it.

Now if I am not generous and rolecop stays hidden then claims on D3 then town immediately wins unless every role is neighbor or goon for scum.

But yet a neighbor + goons how does that help find mason or vig?

I don’t think you can be town Koba.

[DkKoba]

lol did mathblade just slip in the same way in the last time they complained about "muh townsided setup"

[DkKoba]

a) there's at least 1 unflipped scum, likely 2 -> you know whats likely?

scum gunsmith.

scum pt cop

your mech spec is unimaginative and aims to frame me as scum

just embarassing that i am good enough as scum that i have to bury 2 scum before anyone bothers to even breathe a townread in my direction

[MathBlade]

lol did mathblade just slip in the same way in the last time they complained about "muh townsided setup"

No. Last time I was frustrated and off the walls.

Here if I was scum I would take whoever is not my partner(s) in SM/NM and call it a day.

There’d be no reason to push you or complain as through your pushing you’d win it for me.

I also don’t buy you know who the vig is either.

[DkKoba]

ok enchant you can come forward

[DkKoba]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

[MathBlade]

a) there's at least 1 unflipped scum, likely 2 -> you know whats likely?

scum gunsmith.

scum pt cop

your mech spec is unimaginative and aims to frame me as scum

just embarassing that i am good enough as scum that i have to bury 2 scum before anyone bothers to even breathe a townread in my direction

Both of which frame as guilties to you if you’re town which is my point in the mech spec claim that they all have to be goons to you. Two town invests (rolecop + whatever scum has) and two masons and a vig can’t exist

So any PR besides neighbor or goon you find would be a de facto guilty.

So it’s not limited creativity it’s that you don’t fit.

[DkKoba]

what is so strong about town rolecop?

[DkKoba]

i literally only got value out of it because my neighbor was a dirty liar

[MathBlade]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

So now that I think you’re scum you’re abandoning your tictac read?

Now that when Roden sees the points I am making he’ll unlock town you?

[DkKoba]

roden was literally pushing me day 2 and trying to kill me over dwlee but sure math, tell me more

[MathBlade]

what is so strong about town rolecop?

It means scum can’t have ANY PRs.

If scum had a single PR you’d see it.

A single PR of any kind against mason + vig gets instantly not gonna fit elimmed

And scum having no PRs against two masons and a vig and a rolecop doesn’t work.

[MathBlade]

There cannot be an investigative with the ability to confirm or deny in a game with three innos because a conf town would end up in elo or a scum elim happens. It just doesn’t.

[DkKoba]

i think you severely overrate the power that my role has

[MathBlade]

i think you severely overrate the power that my role has

I think you underestimated the power of the role you fake claimed or didn’t realize there was a third inno when you did. It just doesn’t work.

[DkKoba]

sure, it probably means the rest of mafia are goons - but your idea of balance is not the same idea that the NRG nor RadiantCowbells has - and I even talked before this game with RC about game balance without knowing about this game - and he prefers roles that dont offer hard guilties but add to the game, etc.

so yeah

if my role wasnt able to get a single hard guilty that would suck, wouldnt it?

now - why do you think shadowgirl is town?

[MathBlade]

sure, it probably means the rest of mafia are goons - but your idea of balance is not the same idea that the NRG nor RadiantCowbells has - and I even talked before this game with RC about game balance without knowing about this game - and he prefers roles that dont offer hard guilties but add to the game, etc.

so yeah

if my role wasnt able to get a single hard guilty that would suck, wouldnt it?

now - why do you think shadowgirl is town?

Okay now let’s assume for a moment the rest are mafia goons.

That means Dwlee was just a neighbor no power.

How does a powerless team find two masons and a vig?

They have to kill 2/3rds of that pairing to avoid being overwhelmed in elo.

I kinda don’t want to change the topic as I think going all over the place diminishes my case.

[MathBlade]

The moment you give scum an investigative town you gets a hard guilty because of the PRs that exist.

So either A> Scum have no way to find the masons / vig
Or B> They have the way to find masons/vig but then you’re a fourth that gets added to the must kill.
4 kills in 3 days means a conf town going to elo no matter what.

[MathBlade]

What you should have claimed was PT cop and got a second PT on Dwlee. But I don’t think that worked for your planned bus.

[MathBlade]

Oh wait ha that doesn’t work either because that’s not normal lmao

[DkKoba]

ok well I expected at most to only get 1 guilty on a potential traitor rofl

you realize the game started *at* 12 players?

[ShadowGirl]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

What? We've been clashing all game. If I'm scum, why would I think that you're more likely to be on my side over HEM, who has been townreading me and I have gotten along with super well all game? I can't see what is logical about me as scum keeping you around over HEM.

So realistically I think strictly mechanically Dwlee claimed doctor in a setup with a known vig.

Dwlee is a competent scum player so they don’t claim doctor without a damn good reason to.

Broadly, there was no way for town to know there was a vig until today, since there was no second kill on N1. Does that mean scum might be "informed"? Or otherwise the only other way to find out roles is DkKoba with their rolecop ability.

[MathBlade]

ok well I expected at most to only get 1 guilty on a potential traitor rofl

you realize the game started *at* 12 players?

Yes. That’s my point.

And no. You’d get 2 checks off unless you’re lying about being blocked.

[MathBlade]

theories that dont fit will naturally have holes and I will happily expose them all now help me kill shadowgirl, the scum who thought I was going to just tunnel the same reads and would never flip onto her.

What? We've been clashing all game. If I'm scum, why would I think that you're more likely to be on my side over HEM, who has been townreading me and I have gotten along with super well all game? I can't see what is logical about me as scum keeping you around over HEM.

So realistically I think strictly mechanically Dwlee claimed doctor in a setup with a known vig.

Dwlee is a competent scum player so they don’t claim doctor without a damn good reason to.

Broadly, there was no way for town to know there was a vig until today, since there was no second kill on N1. Does that mean scum might be "informed"? Or otherwise the only other way to find out roles is DkKoba with their rolecop ability.

I am going to wait until you catch up.

[DkKoba]

ok im just going to ignore mathblade's trolling

seeya later