Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[skitter30]

Also after me pointing out that i actually do have content on this topic, and that your original claim is incorrect, you changed your argument to me not having content about it *until prism poked me about it*, which is not what you were originally dinging me for, i will note as well. I guess you think this is an easier argument for you to win tho

Was I being hyperbolic? Probably. Is the sentiment of what I am saying accurate? Absolutely.

You should acknowledge you were not really being direct in your thoughts about ari/prism until she pressured you to explain.

If you are town here, I think you're doing as much or more disingenuous arguing than I am here.

Pedit -skitter, I'm not ignoring your argument. I'm responding to the main points you're making. I don't really do point by point fights if I don't have to because nobody actually wants to read that. I'm also at work and phone posting. When I can read back, I'll respond to anything I missed that I think is relevant.

- latter point: fair enuf
- i think the hyperbolicism is incredibly mis-rep-y
- i think i could have probably posted at length abt ari/prism befoee prism prodded me, sure. There's a pretty clear trajectory in my posts about the argument prior to that point tho, so i think you arguing that i ignored a major part of the game is completely inaccurate

[Aristeia]

i do want to note I have seen Dats fumble around with his vpb read at semi-elo for a week when VpB was blazingly obvtown so I am not surprised he doesn't have one as of yet.

[Prism]

wait you just got done with dinner

go fuck yourself i want FOOD not PHYSICAL ACTIVITY

[skitter30]

idk why you're pestering me about it as if i have a claimed bop on him as i do on ico or bugspray

Cuz at this point he's a p central part of thr game and idk why you dont seem to be interested in solving it

@vpb if anything this is willfully ignoring key points of the game ... ^

[fireisredsir]

i do want to note I have seen Dats fumble around with his vpb read at semi-elo for a week when VpB was blazingly obvtown so I am not surprised he doesn't have one as of yet.

do you have a VP read?

[Datisi]

it has been... less than a day since the game started

WILLFULLY IGNORING

do you GENUINELY think that town!me always jumps at solving the whole game immediately and any time i put it off, i'm scum

this ain't 2020 anyome SKITTER

[Aristeia]

He's on the townside of null for me but nothing I‘d feel confident mailing in yet.

[skitter30]

Dats ... >.>
That post has so many issues with it i dont even know where to begin

[VP Baltar]

idk why you're pestering me about it as if i have a claimed bop on him as i do on ico or bugspray

Cuz at this point he's a p central part of thr game and idk why you dont seem to be interested in solving it

@vpb if anything this is willfully ignoring key points of the game ... ^

I will take all the attention I can get!

[skitter30]

People who are above null: ari, fire, enchant
People who are south of null: vpb, dats

Idk: prism, dwlee, ceph

[VP Baltar]

Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.

I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said

its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead

It does support it and I already knew I was right so I just grabbed the first post from each player's iso that was showing they were playing the game cause skitter was acting like no one was at that point which was not my impression at all when I read. I didn't read the thread marking down posts like "yea this one was doing stuff" I just knew people did and had to go find it

@shuchi - The reason I'm town reading dwlee is this exchange with Fire. I can see the intent of what dwlee was doing with the posts he picked, even as they were not necessarily the best examples. If you're scum, you just likely don't do this. You spend the extra 10 mins to find the best argument you can. As scum, I always feel more compelled to be meticulous in my posting. Here, Dwlee is trying to get a meaning across without necessarily having any self consciousness about the posts they are picking. The post they picked from me wasn't a great example, but I can see what Dwlee meant about that post being effort. (I am of course biased here because I KNOW what I was actually doing with that post, even as it looks fluffier on its face).

[Shuichi Saihara]

Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.

I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said

its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead

It does support it and I already knew I was right so I just grabbed the first post from each player's iso that was showing they were playing the game cause skitter was acting like no one was at that point which was not my impression at all when I read. I didn't read the thread marking down posts like "yea this one was doing stuff" I just knew people did and had to go find it

@shuchi - The reason I'm town reading dwlee is this exchange with Fire. I can see the intent of what dwlee was doing with the posts he picked, even as they were not necessarily the best examples. If you're scum, you just likely don't do this. You spend the extra 10 mins to find the best argument you can. As scum, I always feel more compelled to be meticulous in my posting. Here, Dwlee is trying to get a meaning across without necessarily having any self consciousness about the posts they are picking. The post they picked from me wasn't a great example, but I can see what Dwlee meant about that post being effort. (I am of course biased here because I KNOW what I was actually doing with that post, even as it looks fluffier on its face).

Interesting idea to come to a townread for that. When I see a defense, I'm usually thinking "is this good enough for me to drop the suspicion I had for the point being responded to." Unless you just mean the townread is for the very thing fire was scumreading, which I can understand.

[Aristeia]

it has been... less than a day since the game started

WILLFULLY IGNORING

do you GENUINELY think that town!me always jumps at solving the whole game immediately and any time i put it off, i'm scum

this ain't 2020 anyome SKITTER

I do feel a bit willfully ignored now that you mention it ~.~

[VP Baltar]

You're also ignoring posts: 169, 211, 214, 240, 268, all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

Ok. If I'm being very generous, I can see how you feel maligned maybe. But there are a lot of weak takes in these posts too:

From post 169:

I dont really have thoughts on your claim / prism's role beyond: things will shake themselves out eventually

Post 211 is a little more substantial, so that's fair.

From post 214:

And i think prism

probably

believes what she's pushing ari for rn

This is all of post 240 you cite:

I dont know. I'm sure u can, that's just not the vibe i'm getting rn

Post 268 is you explaining Prism's argument to Ari when she said she didn't understand.


Like, these are your own examples, so I still think you're overstating your positions, but I acknowledge you might see this as more committed than I do.

[VP Baltar]

Unless you just mean the townread is for the very thing fire was scumreading, which I can understand.

If I'm following what you're saying correctly, this is indeed what I mean. It's kind of in the response to what fire was scumreading though. Dwlee could have had a much tighter answer that just shut that suspicion down if they spent an extra bit of work, but instead Dwlee just lawndarted some semi-OK responses and moved on.

[Aristeia]

VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.

[Shuichi Saihara]

You're also ignoring posts: 169, 211, 214, 240, 268, all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

Ok. If I'm being very generous, I can see how you feel maligned maybe. But there are a lot of weak takes in these posts too:

From post 169:

I dont really have thoughts on your claim / prism's role beyond: things will shake themselves out eventually

Post 211 is a little more substantial, so that's fair.

From post 214:

And i think prism

probably

believes what she's pushing ari for rn

This is all of post 240 you cite:

I dont know. I'm sure u can, that's just not the vibe i'm getting rn

Post 268 is you explaining Prism's argument to Ari when she said she didn't understand.


Like, these are your own examples, so I still think you're overstating your positions, but I acknowledge you might see this as more committed than I do.

I like that you were able to take this step back but dislike that reviewing the evidence didn't cause you to step back even further -- I hadn't looked at the posts skitter cited but overall they look like they pretty strongly support her point.

[Shuichi Saihara]

VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.

Dwlee is scary.

[VP Baltar]

skitter feels mostly like the skitter im used to, but i have 2 completed games with skitter and in both she was scum

I'm not following what you're saying here. You only have played with scum skitter and you are saying she is playing like that, and you unvote?

I have to be misreading something here

[skitter30]

@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...

[Datisi]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

This kind of makes no sense. Town ascetic claims immediately if they know what they are doing.

yeah

and the mailman can.... confirm them. WOW.

[VP Baltar]

VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.

It's not rooted in how I play so much as trying to look at people's motivations. I don't claim to have a good meta of dwlee, but I'm just saying how people TEND to play.

Motivations are important to how I read people.

[VP Baltar]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

This kind of makes no sense. Town ascetic claims immediately if they know what they are doing.

yeah

and the mailman can.... confirm them. WOW.

Ok, so your argument is optimal town play in this setup is ascetic claims, mailman doesn't claim and tests N1, confirms nature of ascetic and town assumes scum wouldn't claim ascetic, ergo, claimed is townie?

I suppose I can see that. What do you think about prism automatically going to 2 ascetics?

[Datisi]

The page 1 "I don't get this" when they just thought another possibility was questionable.

i didn't catch 21 as a response to me (and even now when you point that out i don't understand what it's trying to say)

i don't have anything else to say other than your read is wrong and any time i spend explaining why it is wrong would be better spent doing other things in this game and getting you to a correct read that way so i'm gonna do that i guess

[Datisi]

Ok, so your argument is optimal town play in this setup is ascetic claims, mailman doesn't claim and tests N1, confirms nature of ascetic and town assumes scum wouldn't claim ascetic, ergo, claimed is townie?

I suppose I can see that. What do you think about prism automatically going to 2 ascetics?

no

my argument is that "if we have a town mailman and a town ascetic, then town mailman's job is to send a message to the ascetic and once it fails, it confirms that the ascetic is indeed (probably) an ascetic"

idk where you're getting the idea of "also scum wouldn't claim ascetic" from my post there

i have absolutely no thoughts on that because i hate mechanical setup specc like that and i can read absolutely nothing of prism's alignment from that