Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Yume]

Also, should we fullclaim now?

[Frozen Angel]

I really think there is something on evil side of this setup that we didn't understand yet and its scaring me

There should be a massive scum side utility that is doing their job freely right now. in a setup with so many protective and investigations, this just doesn't make sense

[Roden]

Ok if you claimed in the hood early on that changes things

Still unfortunate I got basically nothing done last night then, because my Bodyguard and Vig shot did nothing as well one two three four five six

[Roden]

I really think there is something on evil side of this setup that we didn't understand yet and its scaring me

There should be a massive scum side utility that is doing their job freely right now. in a setup with so many protective and investigations, this just doesn't make sense

To be fair, both flipped scum kinda just rolled over and died. The set up could have possibly been more scum sided and we just didn't know it because it didn't get utilized.

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

[jjh927]

I really think there is something on evil side of this setup that we didn't understand yet and its scaring me

There should be a massive scum side utility that is doing their job freely right now. in a setup with so many protective and investigations, this just doesn't make sense

Early on in the game, in a hood, I hypothesised that scum might have their own special scum-only skill tree, with a strongman, the engineer at 3 to masquerade as other trees, something else, and a 4th tier ability.

I decided that was wrong since it would only give scum 3 strongmans, but I guess that hypothesis is more likely again now

[jjh927]

To be fair Roden, FA is pushing a pretty valid point in that you explicitly said that vampires are not town aligned and Dunnstral has flipped as entirely town aligned

[mastina]

I'm town.

like how could anyone POSSIBLY PRETEND IN A GAME BASED ON LYING LOLOL

Pooky I can't say "go fuck yourself" because I'm pretty sure that would get me banned but...

You are an ASSHAAT
OPF A FUCKING CLOWN.

So go FUICKING OWN THAT YH)OUIRARTE SUIT AT REEADING ME AFTER I FUICKING FLIP EXACTLY WHAT I AID I WOULD.

I am town.

If I failed my post restriction, I had the

potential

to be a

form

of scum but since I

haven't

failed my posting restriction, I'm town still.

I will own up to being wrong, when push comes to shove.

I will still attempt to read players because I have to.

But I will be upfront in admitting the mistake when push comes to shove.

AND YIOU FUCKING OWE ME FOR YOUR FUCKING GBULLSHIT RIGHT NOW SO FUCKIGUIOWN UP TO IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW AND ASY THAT WHEN I FLCUKIGN FLIP TOWN THAT YOU ARE FUCKIGN SHIT AT R RESAFING ME AND YOU FORFEIT ALL RIGHTS TO REAFING ME IN THE FUTURE.

Because therer is ZERO reason for you to think I am scum here except you being SO FUCKING OFF.

in fact there's no way in hell mastina!scum could say to dwlee!scum hey im going to fake l-1 you so you can fake hammer yourself

As a matter of fact?

In fact there is no way in hell scumastina could say that because that's not how scumastina thinks.

don't worry
dying isn't actually that bad
been there done that

Oh but it is when WE COULD HAVE A PERFECT GAME BY FUCKING ELIMINATING SCUM TODAY if all the town needs to win is 3 mafia dead.
That, aside from how if there

is

3p shenanigans going around with far fewer town players than we think, losing so much as one town player could in fact actually be bad. The town does not get unlimited eliminations. You said it yourself:

this game feels super fucking busted if town people can just come back from the dead
i feel like we're getting bamboozled somewhere

If the game is 10:3, the reviving dead town is ridiculously strong.
Since I have the potential to not be town, even generously, that'd be 9:3:1, which is still too strong for the revive dead town.
The chance for there being more shenanigans than we've assumed is

precisely why I refuse to be mislimmed

.

That, aside from the fact that the last time I was mislimmed was the first game that I almost got banned in, Ali vs Pine.

Literally the last time I got mislimmed was

FOUR FUCKING YEARS AGO

, because my townplay is just. that. damn. obvious. And this is it.

Why would scum actually want Dwlee to 'not realise' it was a fake hammer?

Scum

would

want Dwlee to realize it was a fake hammer, that's my point precisely for why Dwlee not realizing it wasn't a real hammer makes all the members of the sneak neighborhood conftown.

He was already guiltied scum and it's actually +scum to have him on the wagon since it denies town exp

Only if someone hammers after Dwlee L-1s themselves.

If Dwlee left their self-vote on, guess what?

While that denies us one member on the wagon, it allows for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chooses it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that means the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

I literally have it on my flowchart for DAMN FUCKING GOOD REASON,

Yea I'm not going to trust a flow chart written by you for your alignment lol

Okay but you're literally fucking IGNORING TWEN DOZEN OTHER REAONS FOR ME TO BE TOWN that are BEYOND MY ABILITIES that you KNOW are beyond what I do as scum.

That aside from the fact that the fucking flowchart has always remained relevant and accurate for TEN FUCKING YEARS by now.

like I understand LLD/Titus deciding to throw me out a window cuz lolmechsolve but the shit those other 3 came up with for voting me was literally unbelievably bad and I doubt it came from a town POV

I literally EXPLAINED MY FULL REASONING but you fucking skipped it because lol mastina wallpost so go fucking read.

Why would scum!me not have got on the Dwlee wagon well before your E-1 and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scumastina not have cast a

real

Dwlee vote and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scum!me have got Shiro to res LLD over Pooky

Is there any tangible difference in the order of the resurrections done? A resurrected player is still resurrected no matter if the resurrection was N3 or N4, so resurrecting them in a specific order doesn't shed any light on alignment.

But as an aside I am also proven to have commuted last night phase which would be an interesting move if I was the last scum

Okay and by what rulebook does a Commute disable scum from multitasking?

That it doesn't make flavor sense for scum to kill from out of town?

...No, nothing in Multitasking/Commuter notes from a

mechanics

/

Normal Game

perspective, that a Commuter cannot also kill. A Mafia Commuter cannot kill while commuting if the scum

lack

multitasking, sure! But a Mafia Commuter is, explicitly, completely and entirely permitted to kill if the scum have multitasking.

Something you as a mechanically-oriented player are perfectly aware of.

[Roden]

One two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine

[mastina]

I'm town, no matter how much you desire otherwise.

[Roden]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

To be fair Roden, FA is pushing a pretty valid point in that you explicitly said that vampires are not town aligned and Dunnstral has flipped as entirely town aligned

Because something fucky is going on. I know how it looks and I don't have a satisfying answer.

[Roden]

One two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine ten one two three four five six seven eight nine ten

[jjh927]

But yeah if scum have a skill tree then I'd hazard a guess that their 4th tier ability is an alignment changer, but we can figure that part out if we lim a third scum and the game doesn't end

[Yume]

I am kinda lost, lol.

I don't know who to trust anymore. *shrugs*

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

To be fair Roden, FA is pushing a pretty valid point in that you explicitly said that vampires are not town aligned and Dunnstral has flipped as entirely town aligned

Because something fucky is going on. I know how it looks and I don't have a satisfying answer.

what do you mean by something fucky is going on just explain everything that's going through your mind about it. Let us evaluate if its satisfying or not ourselves

[Yume]

So I guess I will sheep the guilty for now and go from there.

VOTE: mastina

[mastina]

her argument about dwlee conftowning her like YOU CAN GET YOUR SCUMBUDDY TO CONFTOWN YOU IN THREAD IS A FUCKING JOKE AND I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE COULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY FOR EVEN TWO SECONDS.

This is me. My logic. I'm town but my logic is still there and valid; saying it isn't doesn't make it not valid it just makes you a fucking asshole.

its such a level of absurdity that I don't understand how a rational human being could possibly believe it.

Then READ MY FUCKING POSTS instead of fucking skimming and skipping and assuming and letting your fucking bias cloud your judgement.

This is how I think.

Like "I'm conftown because this scum player didn't know something I said in a hood"

Yes!

That's not shit logic.

That's actually clearing.

That you think otherwise is a problem with YOU.

Not with me.

(As for the rest I've already addressed it in prior posts so if you wanna keep revomiting the argument read my fucking posts.)

Indeed, and yet when I called it disingenuous Mastina threw the "no u" at me

Because it

is

disingenuous as fuck, that's why I'm so fucking pissed at Pooky.

YOU arguing that I'm making shit up is you playing to the scum wincon.

POOKY arguing it is him being a fucking assclown because he's town and he should fucking know better.

Pooky backing you up doesn't make the point be any less disingenuous-as-fuck.
It makes Pooky just be a fuck and you a scumfuck.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, no matter how much you desire otherwise.

[Frozen Angel]

So I guess I will sheep the guilty for now and go from there.

VOTE: mastina

Just no. Its not a guilty right now. wait for the mod to come online and clarify my questions about it

[Yume]

My head hurts.

[jjh927]

Why would scum actually want Dwlee to 'not realise' it was a fake hammer?

Scum

would

want Dwlee to realize it was a fake hammer, that's my point precisely for why Dwlee not realizing it wasn't a real hammer makes all the members of the sneak neighborhood conftown.

I mean, as you can see from my point immediately following, I just didn't parse my sentence right. Dwlee being on wagon was something scum would actually want.

He was already guiltied scum and it's actually +scum to have him on the wagon since it denies town exp

Only if someone hammers after Dwlee L-1s themselves.

If Dwlee left their self-vote on, guess what?

While that denies us one member on the wagon, it allows for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chooses it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that means the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

I don't recall that happening. What actually happened was a vote fairly quickly afterwards and the day ending. What was happening BEFORE Dwlee voted was that we were already dictating who should or should not be on the wagon. Except, that Dwlee wasn't on the wagon before. It wasn't protown at all and you're justifying it very badly post-hoc.

Why would scum!me not have got on the Dwlee wagon well before your E-1 and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scumastina not have cast a

real

Dwlee vote and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Because I don't think anyone wanted you to be on the wagon and that would look bad for you.

Why would scum!me have got Shiro to res LLD over Pooky

Is there any tangible difference in the order of the resurrections done? A resurrected player is still resurrected no matter if the resurrection was N3 or N4, so resurrecting them in a specific order doesn't shed any light on alignment.

Yeah but maybe think about the question here. I wanted to talk reads with LLD because I thought LLD would actually read the game and then provide me with a different perspective but the only read she has discussed in any detail at all is me, and she's wrong. I should have had pooky resed even though I figured he was unlikely to read the game and would probably just agree with me because we have a very similar perspective. For scum!me that deliberation process would have gone the exact opposite way because ressing pooky a day earlier would increase my influence.

But as an aside I am also proven to have commuted last night phase which would be an interesting move if I was the last scum

Okay and by what rulebook does a Commute disable scum from multitasking?

That it doesn't make flavor sense for scum to kill from out of town?

...No, nothing in Multitasking/Commuter notes from a

mechanics

/

Normal Game

perspective, that a Commuter cannot also kill. A Mafia Commuter cannot kill while commuting if the scum

lack

multitasking, sure! But a Mafia Commuter is, explicitly, completely and entirely permitted to kill if the scum have multitasking.

Something you as a mechanically-oriented player are perfectly aware of.

I have literally never seen a multi-tasking commuter. Commuter is a role that explicitly cannot act when it activates. And to flip that back on you- you know that.

[Enchant]

I am more in mood to chop confirmed liar in Roden face.

[mastina]

OH btw we also need to be aware of the possibility of tailor-type roles now that we have revives. Its best to not rely on that mechanic too much and just solve the game without considering it exists and allow town to naturally decide if they want revive or not on someone.

^Part of why I'm not going to let myself die when we could fucking win the game today by eliminating scum, which is probably just jjh.

Your claim and your night actions can be ignored in their entirety because they don't conftown you

Except they do.

My role can

literally not be a scum role

. I'm town, it's literally required.

Roden even

said

as much after asking about my role and me giving the specifics.

The way I handled my night actions is also something I'm incapable of doing as scum, too.

The neighbourhoods actions are fine

And thus should clear me.

whereas no aspect of your claim does

My claim clears me because a mafiate converting to a werewolf doesn't fit, the flavor of my picks and my role doesn't fit with a mafiate converting to a werewolf, and my picks and the flavor and the role have the

prerequisite of me being town

. Literally, the wording requires it of me to be town. My role is literally, "If I post, I'm town". That's why I have to fucking say I'm town in every post; if I don't say I'm town, I stop being town. That wouldn't happen if I was never town to begin with because me posting is

tied to a town alignment

per the flavor. (I feel the need to reiterate this to the listmods that I'm talking about my submissions here and this is not a statement applicable outside of this game.)

More than that, my usage of it does.

Especially if I was given the time to paraphrase my neighborhood posting, you'd see that I literally

said

after the Dwlee-fell-for-it, "Boy oh boy I never thought that I would love a troll role as much as in this game, and as per the usual, leave it to a town mastina to turn what was meant to be a troll role into a role that is gamebreakingly strong.

Dunn/Roden still has some form of wackiness in it, but neither is scum with Dwlee; I am not scum with Dwlee, and Frozen Angel is not scum with Dwlee."

That's something I fucking said after Dwlee got got. That's not something I think about as scum,

especially

given I was phoneposting at the time.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush next.

[jjh927]

I mean, your role is built around you being a liar. Having to say "I'm town" every other post doesn't mean you are town? Becoming a 3p as scum is a possible scenario. It might also be that you did actually skew your claim a bit here, because while you don't fakeclaim unless absolutely necessary, sometimes it is necessary to skew details that would literally confirm you as scum to being things that make sense if you are town