Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Lukewarm]

Ugh, I have thoughts, and I desperately want to be more strategic in the way that I disseminate my thoughts to the thread, and not just blurt every thought I have out. But I am struggling to find the best way to do it. So, I guess I failed, and I am blurting my thoughts out.

I hated Datisi's 587.

The moment I read it, my brain said that that is a mafia scared of a quick switch in thread perception of their partner. Nora made a case, I started shifting my reads (575), Fire said it was convincing (577). And then Datisi dropped 587.

It bothered me that it didn't call Dunn town, or town case him. It just called Noraa's reasons NAI - pumping breaks on the shift, without committing to calling Dunn town
Then said he was questioning his reads, then said he was gonna do some isos. Sets him up for a new push somewhere else all in one go.
----
So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.
----

I also didn't like 616, but in a way that is harder for me to put into words.

----

One the other hand, I feel like if Dunn flips town, I feel like scum!Datisi would be less likely to try and pump the breaks on the Dunn read shift. So, I much prefer flipping Dunn over any of the other options (Being me, noraa, Ceph, and Dunn), because he is not one of my town reads, and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa.

Pedit: Datisi just posted a change in stance, and I don't really know who to feel about it :/

[Bell]

Did I explain the fire tr,
Basically they just remind me of unwnd and their propensity to worry about who is and isn’t scum and their relief at me brain spilling seemed well timed. also sort of feel like they’re conf biasing realistically though the initial town bin was very ???.
I think someone mentioned Fire approaching the opening like scum them would approach it. Which I sort of agree about because in my last dance game I tried very hard to romanticize it like I thought I would as town, being basically excited to pair up with someone and solve.
I did not do a good job of it.

And strangely enough here I’m very much not feeling that excitement but it might just be because I’ve felt down over the spring vacation.

[fireisredsir]

Basically they just remind me of unwnd

what the, not again

do i just talk like this guy or something

[Bell]

I’m not alt guessing. I’m just applying what sort of worked with reading another player to you. If you’re even an alt.
Also, that read was a whole lot more measured than what I thought I was going to write when it started it. Paranoia really does poison everything.

[Lukewarm]

I have read through 616->617->618 a few times... I feel like my thoughts are bad.

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance. Followed by an olive branch. And then deciding he needed to not look like Dunn's partner. But this is an incredibly self centered way to read that interaction, and so it is probably bad.

Like it would require Dats to realize that I paired him with Dunn, and then him changing his stance just in response to me, and that seems unlikely when I think about it logically.

[Noraa]

Noraa can you explain your change in attitude and general approach this game?
What’s the game plan? Why were you more mature this game than usual? What changed in how you decided to respond to people?
Why do you seem a little bit sad at the beginning of the game? Why did you delay your solving? Why did you try to present yourself as patient at the beginning of the game? Why did you ask for a truce with Andante? What do you think of Ydrasse right now?

I’m not sure if any of these questions will help me reach the right conclusions but it’s worth a shot.

i dont want to answer most of these questions because i want to stop playing such an emotionally invested game and explaining these things will only make me more emotionally invested.
i asked for a truce because i dont want a 1v1 with andante on day 1 like page 3. total waste of time for absolutely everyone because no one is going to be able to read either of us off of it. we arent going to read each other off of it. nothing comes from it.

i think if dunn is scum, ydra makes a lot of sense as a partner especially with the early saying wanting to pair with dunn and then immediately dropping that idea. i dont reeally like drawing associations though so tentative.

[Noraa]

fire can you not accept that offer quite yet?

im going to be leaving soon and will likely not be able to be super caught up until monday. i currently see no reason not to accept besides that you asked me to wait, i want ceph over all the other remaining gentlemen

is there anything specific you were waiting for

well specifically, i'd like to be in a pt with you if not datisi. i like mala but mala would not talk to me.

[Datisi]

i have multiple issues with lukewarm's 625

first, the minor nitpick is that the "he said he's gonna do isos which opens him up for doing a new push" is weird because we're deciding who gets left out. i already had the bases down for who of the gents i could push to get left. i don't need to be doing a weird 180 redoing isos announcement for that.

then, the reasons for my 587 bothering him is ???. yeah, i didn't towncase dunn or call him town. because i had already said i liked some of his posts prior to that and because i was responding to noraa's case of him, which i said i was gonna do. why would i be dropping a towncase there?

but probably my biggest problem is the "and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa" part - like, he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

actually, now that i type it out, i do feel like my instinct omgus reaction to the shade of our pair is not as good of a point as i first thought, but calling me scum over saying it's not ai for dunn to be talking the way he is feels bad faith and reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

not reading the pedits

[Lukewarm]

Okay. If I separate out the bad thoughts, I think I am here:

Scum!Dunn town locks Noraa, who could be miseliminated fairly easily otherwise. and
Town!Dunn reverts me back to thinking that Datisi is town.

I will wait to consider the inverses until a later date, because the bad thoughts live in the inverses.

Noraa is currently town in my brain. Ceph is pretty null.

So, I still want a Dunn flip today.

[Datisi]

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance.

this part is true

i have reread the posts you have made that page, and even while KNOWING you were thinking about dats/dunn at the time, i still cannot see how i was supposed to see that from those posts, so

[Lukewarm]

he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

I actually typed out a more explicit version of

Town Dunn -> Scum Noraa, but then deleted it because I realized that I don't really know if that is true. I think I would need to reevaluate her there.

So, I actually think

Town Dunn-> Town Dats, and a need to reevaluate Noraa.
Scum Dunn -> Town Noraa, and a need to reevaluate you.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry. Reevaluate zir there

[Noraa]

datisi whcih of me and dunn is more likely scum

[Lukewarm]

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance.

this part is true

i have reread the posts you have made that page, and even while KNOWING you were thinking about dats/dunn at the time, i still cannot see how i was supposed to see that from those posts, so

Responding to this post feels like one of my posts that serve no purpose, but I have broken the self restraint dam for the afternoon.

I mean, I openly suggested that you and dunn should be paired if dunn were not killed this day phase. And, if you and dunn really are scum together, I feel like that would have been an easy thing to spot. but, :shrug:

[Datisi]

datisi whcih of me and dunn is more likely scum

dunn

if it wasn't clear, i am leaning towards accepting your proposal, but making decisions in mafia games is scary and i'd rather shitpost a little bit more before actually pulling the trigger

I mean, I openly suggested that you and dunn should be paired if dunn were not killed this day phase.

that's the leftover if you get your pair and if the basically-arranged pair of ceph/fire goes live

which like, i guess shouldn't have been my logic since you weren't assuming ceph/fire for the other scenario, but i don't really think about who other people are reading me as partners with in every post they make, and i agree this line of conversation is not extremely helpful for anyone

[Cephrir]

i think im going to catch up on this game as a coping mechanism but i definitely might change my mind in 5 minutes

[Lukewarm]

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

[Cephrir]

both enchant and myko have no desire to pair with town

sounds like a match to me

yeah i don't get this at all and the way the pair formed made 0 sense and i kind of wonder if they're both scum but then why are they throwing

[Lukewarm]

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

Unless of course, you were just looking for a way to call me scum by calling it similar to my scum game with you

[Cephrir]

as much as i didn't like myko's tone around enchant and as much as i feel like their logic is like, not On Point, i feel like the overall mindset comes from town

more specifically the focus on who should or shouldn't be left out feels like a more goal-oriented thing that isn't common to come from scum when there's not that much talk about it in town, and scumreading enchant right into proposing to them is ??? if scum

guess this is kinda right

[Noraa]

dunn

if it wasn't clear, i am leaning towards accepting your proposal, but making decisions in mafia games is scary and i'd rather shitpost a little bit more before actually pulling the trigger

ok i can understand that. i just felt like all this situation can be summed up into that question.
oh wait actually
HOLD UP


i have an idea. it's slightly dumb but think about it. If we leave me, dunn and datisi unpaired, then me dying would confscum dunn. it's clear dunn is a greater asset to town than me. if dunn dies, well that would mean i was wrong on them. and datisi cannot die since datisi is the only lady.

[Noraa]

ok actually thats a dumb idea. i thought i found something interesting but nah

[Datisi]

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

like i remember on d1 in guardians, i found some of your posts off because they were pushing logic what was only so slightly wrong and twisted in your favour - i let it go at the time because god knows that being illogical isn't a blanket scumtell but then once you flipped red i looked again and realized i was onto something

and 625 here similarly feels like it's pushing logic that's only slightly wrong but very much serves in your favour (e.g. me not dropping a couter-reason for townreading dunn when i was solely responding to noraa's case on him)

i can go through the guardians to look what this reminded me of if that's needed but like i don't feel like it right now

also i did not remember your partner-read of me/omega from that game at all until you brought it up, and i'm vaguely thinking if that's a cheeky way for trying to divert my attention onto the town-meta you're trying to emulate >_>

[Noraa]

i almost want to say i'd rather we leave out ceph today becuase im going to feel bad about dunn regardless of what they flip. becuase if they flip town, my overconfidence killed them and i die the next day so it's just chaining up town eliminations. if they flip scum, i also feel bad because they could've been alive at endgame and played an excellent game which would have been completely shattered by me. sigh ok whatever. im going to iso a couple more times datisi dont accept yet.
if dunn is town, i'd rather leave day 1 than have them leave

[Bell]

Sorry you’re having a bad day ceph. I kind of got that from your “I’m not gunna post today (because life sucks).” Post.