Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 1.04

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-04-25 00:30:00).

VC

Malakittens [2]:

Roden [70], humaneatingmonkey [105]

ItalianoVD [2]:

FlavorLeaf [225], koopashell [239]

Flavor Leaf [1]:

Malakittens [26]

KittyTacky [1]:

Scorpious [6]

koopashell [1]:

ItalianoVD [122]

Not Known 15 [1]:

JacksonVirgo [138]

Not voting [5]:

MalcolmTucker, Facebones, Saladman27, Not Known 15 [149], KittyTacky [178]

mod notes

Saladman27 has (expired on 2022-04-16 15:00:00) to pick up their Role PM before I start looking for a replacement.

flavor

Spoiler:

[Flavor Leaf]

(ItalianVD sussed FL

they actually said they were slightly lean towning on me, if I recall correctly.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly if I wasn’t leaning toward Flavor Leaf being town I’d think he and koopa were partners.

yep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Wow it's gonn be hard to play lurker with you around huh

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh and I don't agree with FL's assessment on ItalianVD. I think theyre fine and they have been active (like, not just words. Did you miss the push on koopa and on you? That's not nothing and I may have missed you addressing that.)

Not sure that makes FL scum because it's a very controversial read to make as scum, but it could be scum motivated. (ItalianVD sussed FL, this could be their retaliation, pocketing koopa in the process)

Still Im curious where this goes.

Pedit: Havent read the Pedits yet

This is a misrep, if they're saying I pushed Italiano for not being active, but I'm not sure it's on purpose.

I feel like this was a motivated post in some fashion, but it's just a little off. I'm a bit biased since it's against my read, but i feel like the analysis/assessment in itself is off considering it's based off of something that was incorrect, so could just be town misreading.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow it's gonn be hard to play lurker with you around huh

I just respond to whats in front of me, and then talk to myself if nobody's there, and im in the zone.

but then ill go like 2 days sometimes without checking in.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You literally said he was all fluff and his actions are lacking.
I disagree.

[Flavor Leaf]

You literally said he was all fluff and his actions are lacking.
I disagree.

Show where I called italiano fluff.

And that sounds like just not understanding what I meant by action, which is on me.

Talking and slightly shading isnt really action in the sense that I want to see what people do in moments of decisions. Hard action. they might have had a good amount of soft action, but i wasnt really talking about them having a lack of activity/reads, but I see why you can think I did.

[humaneatingmonkey]

looks fluffy

[Flavor Leaf]

Now that everyone but saladman has posted significant content, I will do a new ranked list of player(mostly actually for myself to get an idea of what *I* am looking at as I haven't organized my thoughts yet haha) and we can see here:

Not Known 15
humaneatingmonkey
Facebones
MalcolmTucker
ItalianoVD
KittyTacky
Flavor Leaf
JacksonVirgo
Roden
Malakittens
Scorpious
Saladman27



Salad goes on bottom as a player with 0 content and thus 0 level of villagerness. Everyone in the game other has, in my view, achieved *something* that makes me feel there is a little thought behind it.


A few are extended gut reads and are very volatile in ranking possibility here - some of these I cannot even remember specific posts why but my brain tells them that they are there, but if prompted I can likely find the posts that led me to that conclusion.

looks fluffy

ahh, i see why you think i meant Italiano there too.

But yeah, I was calling Koopa's list fluffy, not Italiano. They just happened to ask more on my Italiano read as I was posting.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm interested in your Italiano read, Flavor, because I disagree and think their mindset is villagery, despite being one I disagree with.
Despite him wolfreading me, I think he is at least pushing me in good faith, in the sense that I feel that he is pushing me in a way that a villager pushes a read they believe in.

I'm interested in your Italiano read, Flavor, because I disagree and think their mindset is villagery, despite being one I disagree with.
Despite him wolfreading me, I think he is at least pushing me in good faith, in the sense that I feel that he is pushing me in a way that a villager pushes a read they believe in.

do you think a scum cant push someone 'in good faith'?

if you look here, my response to that Koopa post came right after.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What have been moments of decisions for you and why do you think Italiano missing that points to him being scum

It just doesnt make sense to me and I think you pulled this from outer space. Help me be oriented.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

Now that everyone but saladman has posted significant content, I will do a new ranked list of player(mostly actually for myself to get an idea of what *I* am looking at as I haven't organized my thoughts yet haha) and we can see here:

Not Known 15
humaneatingmonkey
Facebones
MalcolmTucker
ItalianoVD
KittyTacky
Flavor Leaf
JacksonVirgo
Roden
Malakittens
Scorpious
Saladman27



Salad goes on bottom as a player with 0 content and thus 0 level of villagerness. Everyone in the game other has, in my view, achieved *something* that makes me feel there is a little thought behind it.


A few are extended gut reads and are very volatile in ranking possibility here - some of these I cannot even remember specific posts why but my brain tells them that they are there, but if prompted I can likely find the posts that led me to that conclusion.

what is that list representing if Saladman is the neutral slot?

looks fluffy

so this was the thread of posts where the looks fluffy was attached to. Note the timestamps.

[Flavor Leaf]

What have been moments of decisions for you and why do you think Italiano missing that points to him being scum

It just doesnt make sense to me and I think you pulled this from outer space. Help me be oriented.

There hasn't been really too many, not usually is hard action this early. A hard stance by a scum to politically position, a lofty pocket play, a claim gambit.

a vote at a pivotal time.


Technically, you can consider my Italiano vote something thats more hard action, and if you notice, it brought the direction of the game in another direction, which was kind of my purpose all day. i wanted to interact directly more with some slots.

My reads list is almost like a trap to set scum who are potentially town read by me to try to get me to keep town reading them, so i play with that type of thing in mind while still trusting the logic and tone reads.

I think Italiano's linking of Koopa and Myself specifically while leaning town on me is the scummier part of it. Had they scum read me, it would have felt more null to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've also clearly stated I think Italiano is only like 35% scum, and had them on Orange on my list, so I'm not anywhere convinced they're scum, just seemed like a good area to push and dive deeper.

My humanmonkey read and koopashell reads now have a lot more layers to them.

Like if we had 3 hours left, and I was given the option to auto choose the fade, yeah, it'd be Italiano right now is kind of all it means.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Call me Monkey or HEM if youre finding it hard to call me out by name

I have a response but I shouldnt be playing mafia
Instead Ill do this VOTE: FlavorLeaf

Ill let that marinate for a while. Ill come back later

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh and another thing - the early wagom on malakittens DID NOT develop and IMO thats very noteworthy regardless of Malalittens alignmrnt

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

141 - Don't have a problem with this. Makes sense.
144 - I like this from Malcolm. It's a reasonable response I feel scum don't need to make.
145 - Somewhat agree. Although I can see why some may felt the way they did/do. BTW Malakittens got to 4 votes right? Roden, HEM, koopa, NK15? I'd assume HEM is fairly town up to this point. Not too sure about NK15, not enough to feel comfortable reading there yet.

Italiano, where's that Scorpious read coming from?

I'll tell you soon.

149 - I actually don't think this is a bad unvote.
151 - Interesting.
152 - Another good post from Malcolm. I agree.
153, 154, 155, 158, 159 - Yeah I think it's safe to say Malcolm and NK15 are town. That exchange was fair. Add on the unvote and the responses.
156 - Uhh no.
157 - Okay good response.
160 - Ooh, good catch. Nice on Bones. I didn't see that.
161 - Nai. I tried it but, no.

I was reading 162 and was about to say hey why are you answering but NK15 was already on that plane.

164 - I'm kinda lost, what were you trying to highlight here?
168 - Yeah I agree on this. I just keep thinking it's weird the way koopa has played up to this point.
173 - Hmm. I wonder if you're someone I know. I played with someone who would vote for pressure and kinda throw their vote all over instead of just asking questions to the players. To some it looks scummy, but I got it after playing with them for a while. Hmm.
174 - I can see Facebones as townie, although I wouldn't go there just yet as they don't have enough posts. I guess I can answer it and it'll answer NK as well. It's mainly gut. I can't really go more into depth without breaking the site rules.
175 - Yeah. Very true. Gotta let it ride.
179 - Dang, I missed that.
181 - Okay, kinda spicy.

I think I'm pretty much caught up to where I was earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

Could be scumMonk doing some damage control protecting Italiano. Not sure yet. Their initial push on me was just factually incorrect, which I understand why it happened, but their base fell apart, and then they chose to vote me, which is inherently scum indicative.

There's a piece of action for you. It's effectively a possible chainsaw defense of Italiano by Monk. Neat.

Holds more merit if Koopa is town because scum would have needed to break up FL-Koopa before it develops further.

I'm also town reading Malakittens which is not good for scum if Mala is town.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano, you should know that doesn't make it wolf indicative.
Perhaps consider this motivation, which is the truth:
I want to advance the game to the fun part asap(solving)
The most effective way to get there is to take stances and note reactions to said stances.
I have not even once stated any of my reads were set in stone - in fact mala has been fairly volatile here in view.
Tl;dr forcing reads advances the gamestate and you should consider people have diffrent opinions on how to play Mafia.

I ask kindly that you leave that point alone and evaluate me based on the content of my posts rather than how you think villagers should play the game.

This is fair.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'd assume HEM is fairly town up to this point

Let's get into this since this a bit more.

[Flavor Leaf]

Their initial push on me was just factually incorrect, which I understand why it happened, but their base fell apart, and then they chose to vote me, which is inherently scum indicative.

This is my reasoning for bringing Human down to the Orange tier.

[ItalianoVD]

What did you find wolfy about it?

The

tone

of the post mainly. I felt like the way you were asking her to post a readslist was kinda iffy. A readslist that early is 1) not gonna do anything as far as being able to read the slot and 2) a waste of time that early. And yes I do think it could possibly be alignment indicative.

I already explained it creates a baseline to trace from.
Again, you and I likely see the way to solve the game in a different light. I asked for something that helps me, perhaps it doesnt help *you* but it does help me.
Talk to me about Scorpious, please.

You know what. Also fair. I may have just been looking at my experience. I'm not particularly against the way you are trying to solve, but I've played this game (well the wolf game variation) for a long time and I have seen this style from wolves/scum. I can admit, however, that villagers/town have done it as well. Given the context of this game, though, I was okay with where I was regarding you. And like I said in my previous post, if you are who I think you are then I'll back off and let you do your thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

You know what, I can see Human doing that to an Italiano town in that scenario if Koopa is also town.

It's almost like hiding behind my Italiano scum read, but here's the thing. Hmm.

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

OMGUS, I choose you! (even though there is multiple reasons that it isnt actually OMGUS.

VOTE: Humaneating

1: Their initial reason for suspicion was based on facts from a misunderstanding, and only after it was cleared up, did they choose to vote.
2: This happens after Koopa and I both voted onto Italiano, meaning if Koopa/FL is T/T, then scum would definitely need to start breaking this up. This is especially true of Malakittens is also town.
3: Their push is just kinda forced in a way that looks to break up a townblock. Like they came into it with the plan of eventually pushing me, and once we got cleared up and went to diffuse, they chose to vote. That was almost like a desperate act to make sure that the heat of Monk vs FL kept up, and I'm willing to give them the fire.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't particularly agree with players making big detailed lists of who they think is town/mafia early on like Koopa - it often feels a bit forced in a way that feels unnatural, ultimately none of our reads are going to be that bulletproof at this point in the game. But by the same token I can see the value in sometimes just throwing something out there to see if it sticks early on to force some interactions, so I'm not particularly reading Koopa as overly mafia right now.

Agreed that Mala's interactions feel very caged so far and the "lighten up, it's day one" type stuff feels like a major deflection which wants to make others players feel wary about going in too heavily without addressing the substance of any accusatory posts. But I also get how that frustration could be genuine, so a slot to keep an eye on for now.

My main reason why I disagree with Koopa in placing pressure on me in order to give reads is I know if I try to do a readlist it's forced upon me in order to "produce content/reads". It's very unnatural for me to post a read list this early esp on page 4 when we don't have a lot of solid content. Now if I wasn't town or if he was doing this to another player I'd maybe go for a scumbuddy coaching another scumbuddy, but he's doing it to my slot.

I'm not really deflecting. I'm trying to move the game forward, but everyone keep harping on the current subject is just giving either one of two oppurnities for scum to either "lurk" or jump in order to look like they are being productive.

Also I don't think roden is scum for what's happening right now. I think him and I are at a T v T fight.

Ahh dang it Mala. I’ve done this as scum/wolf. Townread your attacker to try and soften the attack since people live to be townread. Ugh. Tell me I’m wrong.

Anyway I gotta go. I know I missed some things, but I’ll be back later. Ciao.

Granted it's early game and I'm not going to judge anyone not taking completely firm reads at this point too harshly, but do find it interesting Mala feels reluctant to particularly take on anyone at the moment. A clear reluctance which like you say could be wary mafia concerned any strong reads they make of townies will come across as fake and/or manufactured if they can't push said read properly and with good evidence.

Yeah. And to be honest the way I worded that is kinda impossible for her to answer. I guess it's just more of my thought process with Mala.