Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Prism]

Alright, let's see if I can get through these last 19 pages in one sitting. Again, if there's anything anyone wants me to pay special attention to lmk

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

To be frank, I don't have strong tangible reasons to scum read you, and it is more of a gamestate read. Which is why you were presented as the least scummy person in my reads list. Just below the null line.

I did find your pairing with Andante out of character in a way that left me cautious of you, and I was not seeing any particular reason to town read you, so you were largely floating in the Null range based on your earlier play.

Buut, at the start of this game, no one was pinging me as scummy except Noraa. And this is a game with 3 scum in it - up until the Myko/Enchant pairing which still does not sit well with me.

So, starting a game with not enough people pinging me as scummy, I started thinking that there must be pretty good scum players on the scum team. And congratulations, you are the top of my internal perception of people's scum games in this player list. So, that pulled you from the Null range and down into my hero solve.

You announced that you were not going to be around, and then you were not around. So, no, my read did not shift on you at that point.

And then once you came back, I am your strongest scum read, so, not changing my perception of you for the better either, given that I was your strongest day 1 scum read in both games I played against scum!you, and when you were town you very loudly and accurately town read me. So, not quite a (shit, I am unable to recall the word where you are going to read someone solely based on their ability. But sub in that word in this sentence) -- So, not quite a ___ blank read, because I started a little low on you, but you missing that bar isn't changing anything for me.

[Prism]

Weird that your "gamestate read" ignored all knowledge of the gamestates I actually create, as though I don't sit there and club and choke all life out of the town for weeks on end with tone, fake encouragement, traffic control, etc.

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

Looking at this question (and their reaction to me having them in the bottom half of my reads in general) also gives me heebie-jeebies, but in a convoluted way that I don't know would be convincing to anyone else, or useful to try and articulate.

[Enchant]

If you have more than 3 tiers of reads, you are tryhard or mafia.

[Noraa]

why didn't/don't you try to pair with someone you don't townread then

this is something you care about, but i have so many things to care about that this is nowhere in my thoughts. i understand that you care very much about this, but you have to realize that the only reason i care about town dunn dying is because it has to do with myself and my reads.

i knnow that sounds extremely like idk antitown but that is also how you are thinking no? if i townread fireisred and was pairing there, would you care as much? you might not even bring up this point.

like datisi when ur being hard tunneled by everyone in the game for meta reasons when half of them have not played with you in a year and the other half have scumread you every game you've both been town in and are agreeing with the meta reeasons put forth by the first group of people, the first thing you're thinking about is not "oh my gosh if i die tomorrow datisi is dying too"

[Andante]

I'm still pretty sure Luke is town tbh like, how does maf put in this level of effort??

[Noraa]

was noraa consistently townreading dunn?

yeah

[Prism]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

Looking at this question (and their reaction to me having them in the bottom half of my reads in general) also gives me heebie-jeebies, but in a convoluted way that I don't know would be convincing to anyone else, or useful to try and articulate.

Search engine function says it's actually a linguistic towntell

4/5 games, all town. Haven't checked for it against my alts but wouldn't surprise me to see zero, very situational phrase to use as scum.

[Andante]

Also @Bell I'll be gone today cause Easter. Hope you're happy I'm announcing it

[Lukewarm]

Weird that your "gamestate read" ignored all knowledge of the gamestates I actually create, as though I don't sit there and club and choke all life out of the town for weeks on end with tone, fake encouragement, traffic control, etc.

Are you looking for an apology for me taking your post about needing to be away from the game at face value?

Because, if you were scum, you were already locked in. If you had a partner who was either already locked in, or was a lady, they were also good to go for the day. And if Dunn was a partner, I think that he would be someone that you would trust to take care of himself, and at the time that you needed to step away from the game, no one was really scum reading him except Noraa.

So, if you had something happening IRL, I don't think that you would have seen this game as in dire need of you to fix it.

----

I am not sure why you think that I should see you announce that you need to be away from the game, and then you be away from the game, and then I town lock you.

[Prism]

Darkest Dungeon, Undertale, WH13, Forest Fire, Signs were all town games. 2017-2021. Not commenting on the one ongoing that's in there.

[Lukewarm]

I'm still pretty sure Luke is town tbh like, how does maf put in this level of effort??

I am a high effort scum player.

Thank you for your town read, but I will politely ask you to town read me instead for being low impact/effort at the start of the day. Thank you!

[Noraa]

the only time i've seen scum!dunn is when we were partners and he was equally low-effort throughout the whole game

link me the game, i'll post by post analyse it. if you are right that dunn truly was low effort and broke all of my meta tells, i will agree to pairing with mala or fireisred.
but if not, please reassess

my post count is getting close so im going to stop posting until i get this response because atp, we're looking at a case of datisi killing town me and having to die with scum dunn or letting scum dunn float to the end. Or we're looking at datisi killing scum dunn and conftowning me for tomorrow. i dont see a world where lukewarm or cephrir dies here because im ok with cephrir but no one else is. and i really think lukewarm is town, so i really dont want to agree to that.

my point stands that scum dunn is a greater threat than both scum lukewarm and scum noraa. perhaps you think no because of meta, but in this gamestate specifically, it is true. and meta wise, i think i have a higher accuracy in terms of read rate on dunn than anyone else in this game.

datisi if you think i am town, why dont you trust my read on dunn? my read is based on meta and your read is based on meta. but you were scum with dunn that game, scum always sees their partners as a little more scummy/bad. you have never been town in a game with dunn right? because i have, and i have read him correctly in control, in maria's mask game, in web of lies, in some other scum game of dunn's, etc. i took one look at shakespeare and read dunn correctly by like page 20 without looking at flips.

anyways i doubt i can convince you but this is the only path i see. im not willing to pair with mala or fire if i have to leave out lukewarm or cephrir over dunn if you cannot completely shatter my meta tells on dunn.

[Cephrir]

Glad to see Luke is finally in the building. I'm even somewhat persuaded by his fire town case.

I'm still pretty sure Luke is town tbh like, how does maf put in this level of effort??

I think he can probably do the effort as scum, but I did like the substance of it as far as being real scumhunting.

[Prism]

I'm fine leaving Dunn out over Luke, and it's probably better that way. I'm still not fully caught up but I doubt I will ever read Dunn with any degree of accuracy, pretty sure if Luke is scum I will break him over my knee and throw him in the river in good time.

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

Looking at this question (and their reaction to me having them in the bottom half of my reads in general) also gives me heebie-jeebies, but in a convoluted way that I don't know would be convincing to anyone else, or useful to try and articulate.

Search engine function says it's actually a linguistic towntell

4/5 games, all town. Haven't checked for it against my alts but wouldn't surprise me to see zero, very situational phrase to use as scum.

It was less about the usage of "I would love to" and more about the absolute refusal to believe that I could possibly be thinking that you are scum in this game. Since, you know, you did exactly that in our last game

Cool. I think the read on me is dogshit and I'm willing to call you on it.

[Prism]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

[Cephrir]

Do your reread, the meta defenses are boring

[Datisi]

link me the game, i'll post by post analyse it. if you are right that dunn truly was low effort and broke all of my meta tells, i will agree to pairing with mala or fireisred.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=85877

the reason why i was grilling you so much about it was because you were the one to bring it up in the first place, how you didn't want to kill your town partner if dunn were to flip green. i wouldn't have said anything if your point was simply "i'm town and i don't wanna die if dunn is green", which like, understandable, but you did specifically say that you didn't want to cause deaths of two other townies

my read on dunn isn't meta, the only thing i can conclude meta-wise is that he's playing different than all the other games i've seen him in, both town and scum. i'm usually down to sheep people who have a bop on someone else if i townread them, but (1) you don't actually seem *that* sure about dunn flipping red, since you pretty consistently bring up "if dunn is green etc", and (2) i'm not yet 100% sold you're town

[Prism]

Do your reread, the meta defenses are boring

Nah, I'll just quit both.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

I hate my life so fucking bad right now but alright im literally going insane that people are not seeing scum dunn.

AYYYYYY So last time I was maf, and like, we didn't solve in the hood at all, and I kinda liked that sooo I don't plan on posting significantly in the hood, like I'd rather just dump thoughts in the thread, so yeah, but TOWN!!! LET'S GOOOOOO I only accept dance proposals from town! We are endgaming! gg. tryhard mode activated. maf be scared

You liked that you didn't solve in the hood when you were mafia last time and you want to not solve in the hood again this game?

shade on andante. it's arguable whether or not this shade, i get that, but it also doesn't add too much to my case anyways so its whatever.

Honestly maybe we just quarantine me/Ydrasse and make us policyleave if we ever get to ELO, two birds one stone.

I don't believe that you would agree to leave out of policy at the end

shade on prism

I lean town on Andante, I agree that this seems like how they play as town. I am uneasy about Prism due to posts 40 and 74. I don't really believe that they think they will really get policy voted off of very little at the very end of the game. Or that they won't even try to defend themselves. So that rubs me the wrong way right away because it doesn't feel like something that would be followed up on, or like a real commitment.
As for their pairing with Andante, just having Prism making moves this early makes me nervous when combined with the above, as I can see this as setting up for later.

Between the last two posts and this one, Bell SRed Prism and said that Andante was getting pocketed by Prism basically. Bell brought up that the proposal from Prism to Andante was scummy.
Dunn basically immediately agrees with that but makes it sound like an original point.

Let's break Dunn's next post down into a couple different sections:

I don't think Bell looks bad here but I do want to go against the notion that just posting means they can't be scum

I liked that mykonian gave a lot of reads with explanations early on and that it is believable

This is Bell shade. Myko happens to scumread Bell the hardest and there were a couple TRs on Bell (me, fire, maybe some others). Dunn is basically taking the stance of "ok I agree with both sides" but trying to push towards Bell is scum. Call this whatever you want but Myko really doesn't have anything worth townreading at this point in time. It's a really random read that happens pages after like Myko's sixth post and all Myko talks about is how scummy Bell is.

Noraa is meh because 142 doesn't really make sense, 158 seems to be painting a narrative for something that isn't actually happening which is weird. 177 is also weird because they're not really paying attention to what is being said, which is that they are going to post very little in the pt.

Again, the read on me is meh, which translates to null, but Noraa is scummy because blah blah. weird is the equivalent of scummy, but the overall read is "meh". There's not a reason stated for why it isn't a scumread. Like if it was like "noraa is being weird but noraa does that often as town" or "noraa is being weird but noraa also did this which was towny" it would explain why it was a neutral read. but instead it is stated as a neutral read but only says that i am scummy in the content of the read.

Lukewarm has the worst posts among the gents so far in my opinion. I believe them about their energy level, but they ask a lot of questions that are low impact. Right now if I had to choose between the gents who have posted it would be here unfortunately

Lukewarm shade. The reason Dunn is agreeing with the energy level argument is because many other people in the game have brought it up. So again, Dunn is agreeing with both sides that the energy level is real but the play is also scummy.

Well, alright then, but it's also not like I'm known for my passive townplay, and while aggressive early in D&C I was openly sandbagging Day 1 because I thought it'd be fun.

Either way I'll go to bed rather than create a back/forth web. I'm skeptical that you overshoot so several in your reaction to D&C, from virtually no respect to earth-shaking, but maybe I'm wrong...and I am willing to wait!

I wouldn't be voting for you right now if that was an option, I'm just skeptical

Dunn thinks Prism is scummy, but just a little pushback from Prism and Dunn immediately starts trying to smooth things over and make things softer.

They’re very serious face and then doubled down on the serious faceness.
As everyone knows there is only so serious face a scum will be early game because they don’t know how people will react to their resting serious face. They’re very serious about this. If people don’t post content 100% of the time then they’re scum: serious face.

Starring: serious face.

idk i looked at some past games and they are very serious face early as scum. probably, idk, they seem to have not played in a few years

Free town points for looking like you're trying to figure things out

This is towards a post from fire agreeing that Prism is being serious and it looks like scum prism. Like Myko, there isn't really a good reason to townread fire at this point in time. TOWN DUNN DOES NOT HAND OUT FREE TOWNREADS LIKE THIS. BIG NO.

Im hungry. will continue later.

[Lukewarm]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

I am not sure what you are trying to point me at, but frankly this whole discussion has been dropping my read on you even further.

I don't know exactly what meta you want me to be drawing lines to, but I am comparing it to my personal experiences with you.

Those being Forest Fire, where I started scum reading you because of your interactions with Infinity, and your response was to town read me and say how you can see how town!luke could reach those conclusions. And then Divide and Conquer, where the moment notty and I started voicing suspicion on you laughed at the mere idea that we could possibly be suspecting you in that moment. And even in the post game, I got the feeling that you were carefully crafting that response against us because you thought it would get you town read.

And in this game, I started voicing suspicion on you, and you laughed at the mere idea that I could possibly be suspecting you in this moment.

[Noraa]

Something important is that town dunn has no reason to agree with both sides. NO REASON.
agreeing with both sides makes both sides feel validated and looks like you are analyzing and taking both sides into account. but in reality, it is the refusal to make a choice which again, town dunn would not do.

alright continuing

[Prism]

It might, in fact, be laughable and abjectly terrible.