Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 1.16

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-04-25 00:30:00).

VC

Malakittens [3]:

humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

Roden [3]:

Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888], koopashell [915]

koopashell [2]:

Scorpious [457], JacksonVirgo [820]

Flavor Leaf [1]:

Not Known 15 [620]

humaneatingmonkey [1]:

MalcolmTucker [868]

Not voting [3]:

MathBlade, Andresvmb, Malakittens [561]

[MalcolmTucker]

I think this is the real reason you find me wolfy:
I am loud.
I have opinions.
I talk a lot.
I am not afraid to change.
Did I mention loud?

You see me post a lot, and with an aggressive tone and you are scared.

That's the reason.

I doubt you will admit that, or rather, have the level of insight able to figure that out - but your level of reading is extremely ineffective towards my playstyle as it fails to take into account context.
What is shocking is you are not at the same time pushing FL here too.

Is everyone aware of your role claim? I don't really see why anyone is pushing you at the moment given that, don't think it's likely you're lying.

[Scorpious]

Link me your towngames where you solved the game.

Stop flailing..

You’ve demonstrated the ability to be proficient at that.. You can handle finding those..

“Link towngames where “you” solved… I wish I was smarter… What you said there is called something but I can think of it..

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm not sure mafia particularly pushes Koopa right now, it's unlikely go anywhere and isn't particularly in their interests. But I guess that could conversely be a reason for scum to give it a go...will be intrigued to see whether Scorpious/Jackson keep on it or back down.

[MalcolmTucker]

Both Roden/Human being on the Mala bandwagon is interesting to me given both were similarly aligned on FL for a while. Given Roden went on it right after HEM it points to town for me...I think HEM/Roden would be too self-conscious to go on the same wagon together when their previous one has faded away and where possible links to them being teammates could be made.

Conversely if HEM is not mafia could be a very opportunistic move from Roden to get a viable wagon going.

[koopashell]

I think this is the real reason you find me wolfy:
I am loud.
I have opinions.
I talk a lot.
I am not afraid to change.
Did I mention loud?

You see me post a lot, and with an aggressive tone and you are scared.

That's the reason.

I doubt you will admit that, or rather, have the level of insight able to figure that out - but your level of reading is extremely ineffective towards my playstyle as it fails to take into account context.
What is shocking is you are not at the same time pushing FL here too.

I hate lists.. They’re a scum tell to me..

How are they a wolftell?
Do you believe you're the greatest mafia player of all time and somehow figured out an ultimate tell? Somehow every other town player

FL also has done lists - that make them wolf too?

Trying to push these kinds of tells is extemely unfun to play with - because they are NONSENISCAL.
If it really is a "tell" - wolves wouldn't do it after some time.
You are making this game not as fun from my point of view by trying to tie what can be *proven* to be not a wolftell via simple statistics.. I can ask any great town player I know(SPF, macdougal, askthepizzaguy, etc.) And they'd all tell you that trying to tell people that "making a list" is wolfy is a ridiculous concept.

I have 0 hope in adjusting your play here but I fear you are going to be taken easily to a limlo situation and you will end up using these tells to lose us the game.


Tl;dr - learn what real wolftells are please and stop pushing the list angle because I will keep doing them as expressing my thoughts on the game openly is conducive to making other villagers see my thoughts.

[koopashell]

Link me your towngames where you solved the game.

Stop flailing..

You’ve demonstrated the ability to be proficient at that.. You can handle finding those..

“Link towngames where “you” solved… I wish I was smarter… What you said there is called something but I can think of it..

I already stated I don't wish to unmask my account on other sites like MU :Lol:

I don't like players like you because you aggressively push incorrect mafia theory that is proven wrong in practice.
Your deflection is proof of that - have some self awareness please.

[MalcolmTucker]

If FL is town and we're correct that a mafia team member defended them to distance themselves from a possible teammate like HEM, then I'm not completely hating the possibility of it being Kitty considering they're also on the Mala wagon.

In post 369 they said they were unsure on HEM, but they later TR'd FL and joined HEM's Mala bandwagon. Post 801 could easily be a way to create a bit of distance as well in a way that seems reasonable without being particularly accusatory at all. Especially considering it was regarding a much earlier post in the game, I'm strugglingv to find a reason to go back to that other than if they genuinely just really disliked the tone of HEM's post.

I will point out that their suspicion on Mala has been quite consistent though, so it doesn't necessarily feel like an opportunistic vote to the same extent as it otherwise could have.

Intrigued to hear where Kitty is on HEM at the moment though because their views on them still feel somewhat obscured.

[koopashell]

I think it is funny that FL and I have played in a largely somewhat similar way - but Scorpious has said nothing of them.
Are FL's lists not wolfy?

[koopashell]

[Roden, HEM, Kitty, Andres, Italiano] contains at least 2 wolves.
Added Kitty based on my reISO after Malcom's prompting.
I still think JV should be critically analyzed before endgame if they stay alive.

[koopashell]

My apologies to everyone else for the heated posts on this page - I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.
I think Scorpious is worth an investigative check here if anything just to make sure they are not a wolf trying to hide within this ridiculous theory.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Malcolm - this was where I was at earlier, it's changed since then, but I was feeling Kitty too.

Actually, I can't shake the feeling that NK15 chose to bring that up because scum wanted more pressure on me because I'm pushing Human. Moving Nk15 down to Orange, and Roden up to Neutral. While the other Neutral's I have little to read on, it's not the same with Roden, there's a couple more layers, not much, and it's more just because I'm torn. Neutrals could have a scum in them.

Malakittens
Scorpious
ItalianoVD

MalcolmTucker
JacksonVirgo
Koopashell

Facebones
Saladman27
Roden

KittyTacky

Not Known 15

humaneatingmonkey

No order within tiers.

[MalcolmTucker]

My apologies to everyone else for the heated posts on this page - I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.
I think Scorpious is worth an investigative check here if anything just to make sure they are not a wolf trying to hide within this ridiculous theory.

I think Scorpious' push here is pretty lazy but I'm not particularly reading them as mafia for it currently to be honest. Don't see why mafia would push you.

[koopashell]

My apologies to everyone else for the heated posts on this page - I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.
I think Scorpious is worth an investigative check here if anything just to make sure they are not a wolf trying to hide within this ridiculous theory.

The reason I got more upset now is *because* I found they are probably a villager, if they are wolf I'd just laugh and bury them.

I think Scorpious' push here is pretty lazy but I'm not particularly reading them as mafia for it currently to be honest. Don't see why mafia would push you.

[koopashell]

My apologies to everyone else for the heated posts on this page - I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.
I think Scorpious is worth an investigative check here if anything just to make sure they are not a wolf trying to hide within this ridiculous theory.

I think Scorpious' push here is pretty lazy but I'm not particularly reading them as mafia for it currently to be honest. Don't see why mafia would push you.

Oops i messed that up:
The reason I got more upset now is *because* I found they are probably a villager, if they are wolf I'd just laugh and bury them.

[Flavor Leaf]

My way too early Day 1 reads prediction Round 2:

Human/Kitty/Italiano

@Flavor - If I am way off, I feel shifting a few things around could get to an eventual correct path, so if I'm alive in a few day phases, i will come back to this when more info is in game

[MalcolmTucker]

I need to take a proper look at Italiano, been unsure what to make of them so far.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.

then do what you told Roden to do and move past it. No point pushing back with an emotion side. JV's just playing the game, and he's not as deep as some other players, so I think it makes sense a townie who's only been seeing bits and pieces and playing when theyre near and present could see you as scum.

We've gone fast, I don't blame JV for not posting as much, however I am used to JV's playstyle a bit more, but I generally just feel that they're in an acceptable spot at the current moment based on it being Day 1 still. JV alone isnt going to be able to fade you or anything, so you arent in trouble. it's 1 vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

I need to take a proper look at Italiano, been unsure what to make of them so far.

atm, if I had to pick one of my town reads that have infiltrated, that's where it is, but there's a reason I put them in the back. Even if they are scum, they did get me to town read them, so for the chance they are town, I'll trust in my town read for a bit longer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think JV should be critically analyzed before endgame if they stay alive.

this is true for every slot. We aren't here solving the game Day 1. Scum manipulate gamestate and position accordingly. It's okay to be completely off day 1, it's the thought process that should be shown.

[koopashell]

I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.

then do what you told Roden to do and move past it. No point pushing back with an emotion side. JV's just playing the game, and he's not as deep as some other players, so I think it makes sense a townie who's only been seeing bits and pieces and playing when theyre near and present could see you as scum.

We've gone fast, I don't blame JV for not posting as much, however I am used to JV's playstyle a bit more, but I generally just feel that they're in an acceptable spot at the current moment based on it being Day 1 still. JV alone isnt going to be able to fade you or anything, so you arent in trouble. it's 1 vote.

Was talking about Scorpious, JV seems reasonable just very much lacks much context.

[ItalianoVD]

I do see a world where my Italiano town read is incorrect based on my judgement being clouded by their town reading on me, but again, a paranoia piece.

Well then we’re in the same boat. I’m only townreading you on your play thus far and the tone to most of your posts, but I don’t know what you’re capable of. I assume it’s within your ability to fake tone and wording as scum and also paranoia. You are not a full freak read, more like yellowish green or yellow.

[MalcolmTucker]

im not seeing what you're seeing when you mean both kitty's posts are fairly pure tonally that i can dismiss them as town, and i think scum would be more trigger happy to give that assessment.
so now i'm asking you how you reached that judgment.

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

lmao it was a riff on you hating lists but i was pleasantly surprised you responded

why do you think Mala is town? what about Kitty's play makes you think they're playing well?

If we're exploring possibility of Kitty playing the FL good cop to HEM's bad cop, these are the only two mentions I can find of Kitty in HEM's ISO with no particularly direct interactions between them.

What do people think of this at all? HEM both calls out what I thought was Koopa's fairly weak TR of Kitty early on, and later questions the idea that they're playing well. So they're not exactly in full agreement on things...but this feels soft enough for me that it doesn't rule out the possibility of them both being teammates, especially when HEM has never really pushed or probed Kitty beyond this despite not necessarily strongly TR'ing them. Especially if it was possibly an organised strategy when HEM was all-in for FL's being eliminated.

[koopashell]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642
Did a meta dive on italiano to see if I could eliminate them from my PoE - looks like this game, is similar to this one in terms of play.
There are low intensity wolf and town games too I saw - but this stood out. I read their ISO and thought similar things I did here. They pushed players in a similar way.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm quite liking a lot of Italiano's play so far from a skim through their ISO, they could of course be mafia playing well and intrigued to see how things develop as the game goes on but not getting a mafia vibe.

Their push on Koopa at the time seemed fairly reasonable to me and the frustration over the push on Salad appeared to be quite genuine.