Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[koopashell]

I don't think any push on me has been reasonable at all.

[Not Known 15]

For the most part, i always give my thoughts on reads, like I’m better at doing that as scum than town even.

If i don’t, that means it’s more tone/gut/gamestate from my pov.

If anything, it’s like a list so people can know where my head’s at.

Refusing to give reasons isn’t scummy because as scum, I could easily make some shit up that people would like, let’s be honest. I got the gift of gab, and it’s one of my best strengths as scum.

So you are saying that your roden read was based fully on gamestate and think that explaining your gamestate assumptions will do more harm than good. Is this correct?

It’s more in the line of “not sure how to put it into words, but i have this energy feeling it here”

Do you think it puts me in a better position to not explain?

Do you think I wouldn’t be able to put together something as scum that would have most players in the game feel acceptable considering the time it was spent?

Kinda over this conversation overall, this was like pre page 10 stuff, seems like you’re making a lot out of a little, which could be your way of getting deeper integrated into the game, so i guess it’s fine

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

After this FL became evasive about what I had uncovered. FL didn't say "I don't remember why" but said "let's move on" because they didn't have an answer, even after re-questioning.
FL is scum.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think any push on me has been reasonable at all.

Aware we've moved past it now but I strongly disagreed with you parking your vote on Salad for a while - I wasn't necessarily sure it was what mafia would do, but I can see why Italiano would read you as being fencesitting mafia for trying to put pressure on someone who wasn't around and wasn't at all active - we weren't going to get much from it. Not an issue now given we've moved on, but I don't particularly read Italiano as mafia for their previous suspicion of you, for what it's worth.

[MalcolmTucker]

NK - can you point to where FL said "lets move on" at all because I'm struggling to find that from the time. FL should of course give a response to this presuming they never did at the time further down the line.

[ItalianoVD]

At this point I’m thinking Scorpious and koopa or just emotional town battling for ego. @koopa: I’m getting a better understanding of how you play and why you do what you do.

Town: Malcolm, Scorpious
Townlean: Leaf, koopa, mala, nk15
Neutral: HEM, Andres, Math
Scumlean: Roden, kitty, jacksonvirgo

[koopashell]

Uh oh a list, make sure you dont show Scorpious

[ItalianoVD]

I do see a world where my Italiano town read is incorrect based on my judgement being clouded by their town reading on me, but again, a paranoia piece.

Well then we’re in the same boat. I’m only townreading you on your play thus far and the tone to most of your posts, but I don’t know what you’re capable of. I assume it’s within your ability to fake tone and wording as scum and also paranoia. You are not a full

freak

read, more like yellowish green or yellow.

Posting on the phone is so frustrating. “Green” NOT Freak.

[koopashell]

i think I will enjoy the game more after night 1, from the comfort of the graveyard chat.

[ItalianoVD]

Uh oh a list, make sure you dont show Scorpious

Lol. I figured it’s time I give at least where my head is. It’s not extensive yet because it’s only Day 1.

[koopashell]

VOTE: kitty

I read their meta and got cold feet.
I also read Kitty's meta and this feels correct.

[koopashell]

I think I've voted every slot except NK15 now

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 obviously ignored the entire Roden vs FL discussion because it was exactly what that was.

I think I'm happy with my Roden vote, especially now that it can't be argued I don't have a reason since I stated my reasons.

[Roden]

And I also want you to tell me how you feel about Scorpious

They barely have any content, so it's hard to have any kind of feeling towards them. I do think activity is alignment indicative for them though.

So then you

do

know how to feel about them.

Just checked the timer and we still have an entire week to go. Just chill and let people push and prod naturally instead of chainsawing our efforts to case anyone who isn't your current top priority. If we near EoD and somehow nobody has had anything to say about Scorpius and they're still not playing, then yeah let's hard pressure them because the game state would imply they're just scum at that point.

But you already said activity is alignment indicative for them so the lack thereof should signify scum even right now right? Also how full proof is that strategy for you?

This is a weird post. I said alignment indicative, not scum indicative. Why did you assume scum indicative?

[Roden]

And I also want you to tell me how you feel about Scorpious

They barely have any content, so it's hard to have any kind of feeling towards them. I do think activity is alignment indicative for them though.

So then you

do

know how to feel about them.

Just checked the timer and we still have an entire week to go. Just chill and let people push and prod naturally instead of chainsawing our efforts to case anyone who isn't your current top priority. If we near EoD and somehow nobody has had anything to say about Scorpius and they're still not playing, then yeah let's hard pressure them because the game state would imply they're just scum at that point.

But you already said activity is alignment indicative for them so the lack thereof should signify scum even right now right? Also how full proof is that strategy for you?

I didn't particularly like Roden's reaction to FL and I thought their argument Flavor wasn't really being clear with their reads felt very off given the state of the game so far. But I'm not sure mafia Roden has any way to react the way they did - the push was long past and it felt like essentially picking a fight which suddenly put them in contention again as possible mafia. If you're mafia, best just to ignore and move on from that I think.

I'm actually starting to come back around to ScumRoden. I do think they had reason to do so because it was actively helping fuel the Flavor Leaf wagon, and it was attempting to bring me down into the overall gamestate feel as scum to people.

Human I can see in a very similar vain as it was when I pushed you last game, so I see a town world with them.

And NK15 was also pushing me because of the same thing Roden was, so it feels kind of like Roden piggybacked onto NK15's push to keep the momentum going.

VOTE: Roden

Is that a good enough reason for you, Roden?

This post is just a spectacle lol.

Yes Leaf, this is definitely a Vote with a Reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yet again, just because you dont like the reason, doesnt mean it's not a reason.

Feels like scum who doesnt think they should be getting wagon'd.

Italiano thinks youre scummy, and Koopa had you 2nd to the lowest, yet you're still just trying to discredit me.

[ItalianoVD]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642
Did a meta dive on italiano to see if I could eliminate them from my PoE - looks like this game, is similar to this one in terms of play.
There are low intensity wolf and town games too I saw - but this stood out. I read their ISO and thought similar things I did here. They pushed players in a similar way.

In contrast look at this scum game.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84138

This town game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34384

vs.

This one
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34384

[MalcolmTucker]

I do feel like it's quite inconsistent that Roden has gone in on FL for changing their read on them but not other players who have done similar at other points in the game. Koopa did this once or twice before their role claim. NK had Mala down as "obvious" scum early on but then completely backpedalled on the basis of one missed post that I personally don't think changed a lot. Why solely the focus on the player who suspected them?

[Roden]

I don't think any push on me has been reasonable at all.

I think you need to stop being so hung up on people pushing you and instead try to engage with your scum reads. Otherwise if you're town you're likely to start second guessing yourself.

[Roden]

Yet again, just because you dont like the reason, doesnt mean it's not a reason.

Feels like scum who doesnt think they should be getting wagon'd.

Italiano thinks youre scummy, and Koopa had you 2nd to the lowest, yet you're still just trying to discredit me.

Leaf I'm not going to engage with you if you keep intentionally trying to goad me.

[MalcolmTucker]

okay, i'm slipping into old habits.

I would like to announce that I'll be imposing post limits for me. I wanna train a lurky/wall-ey posting style. Wish me luck.

This is townie but idk why you're imposing anything on yourself

Spiritual vote on Malakittens

Malashell

I don't like being shipped with random ppl i don't know.

sorrynotsorry.

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

I have played with JV twice so far; both times I have been scum. So there's the potential that he might vote me right off the bat which is fair considering that I been scum twice so far now against him.

This feels very self conscious.

VOTE: Malakittens

i dont think you're being self-conscious exactly

i think you're trying to get us to townread you earlier by declaring to lim you right there and then — and assuming Roden is with good intentions trying to push you
it tracks with the idea that you wanted JV to townread you — and assuming that the slot is town

Ok HEM basically said what I meant but more concisely.

Roden did seem to agree with HEM a lot very early on and was more than happy to give a TR for something I don't think was particularly alignment indicative.

For Roden directly - given HEM initially suggested they'd employ a more lurky posting style, and given you felt like this was town, do you find it suspicious at all that they've not ended up following through on that?

I don't think it's particularly indicative for either HEM or Flavor who initially wanted to sit back a bit before very much taking over as the main town voice, but it was clearly of some importance to you.

[koopashell]

Let's wagon Kitty.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yet again, just because you dont like the reason, doesnt mean it's not a reason.

Feels like scum who doesnt think they should be getting wagon'd.

Italiano thinks youre scummy, and Koopa had you 2nd to the lowest, yet you're still just trying to discredit me.

Leaf I'm not going to engage with you if you keep intentionally trying to goad me.

Are you really being goaded in a way that's particularly bad here? This feels like a pretty standard interaction.

[MalcolmTucker]

Let's wagon Kitty.

I could get onboard a Kitty wagon given my previous suspicion of them, want to hear more from them though to see if my read changes at all.

[Roden]

I do feel like it's quite inconsistent that Roden has gone in on FL for changing their read on them but not other players who have done similar at other points in the game. Koopa did this once or twice before their role claim. NK had Mala down as "obvious" scum early on but then completely backpedalled on the basis of one missed post that I personally don't think changed a lot. Why solely the focus on the player who suspected them?

This is actually my biggest issue with Leaf and why I think he's scum. The narrative got switched around to me being mad I got scum read and that I scum read him for changing his read. But that was never the case, and it's pretty clear that was never the case if you just look at my original post that was directed at him in context.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm interested in how others perceive Flavor's play here - I'm inclined to think town because I think they're genuinely trying to solve and put necessary pressure on other players, but by the same token they seem skilled enough to approach the game this way as mafia and potentially manage to get away with it. I do find it interesting that they've basically been able to alter the direction of the game with pretty minimal pushback at all beyond those they've suspected.

Going back to this post - I'm finding it really interesting how quickly things changed after this. As I stated then, it felt notable that Flavor had very much been able to assert their influence on the town with relatively minimal pushback. But not long after that this very much changed and the wagon started to form...is it possible scum were coordinating their approach/attack here and didn't want to go in too heavily right away?