Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Prism]

Clearly I am having more fun being a complete prick than playing mafia so it is time for me to stop posting for now.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Yeah, but why aren't you SRing any of the people Sring you?

Both Prism and Lukewarm SR me and I SR them. Thats 2/3 of my SRs .....

3/3 if you include that I placed you at 3 out of 4

Shade on Noraa.

So i need choose carefully and not yolo first person who offers dance with me.

You are unreadable

Shade on Enchant.

VS: Dunn's treatment of Myko/Fire (who both agree with dunn on scum bell or scum prism)

in past dances have maf avoided partnering with each other?

I've played a lot of dance games and have never seen mafia pair with each other except for myself

Nice nice nice

can someone explain this lovers vs dancers distinction, cause i don't see anything about lovers in the setup and idk what y'all are talking about

The other dance games worked a little differently, it was simply every pair is treated as lovers and dies together from the start

More nice nice

Can you explain why you think Mala is town for my benefit?

Asking Myko to explain a read on mala because Dunn is you guessed it .. about to shade mala

They posted 4 whole times in a row and it wasn't zero content.

This argument again? I'm not buying that they're completely incapable of posting as mafia

Shade on both Bell. And Mala.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

My reads on the remaining ladies are that fireisred is town and Malakittens + Datisi can both go either way.

I suspect that fireisred is going to want to save Cephrir here. Incidentally I also think that Cephrir could go either way.

Honestly Datisi has some posts I like but I think they can fake it

Fire is town. Why? Dunn doesn't always explain reads as town either, but I have a hard time believing this doesn't have to do with fire pretty much agreeing with everything dunn has said. "Because fire likes Cephrir, I'm alright with cephrir" is basically the 2nd and 3rd sentence in one. Also where did the myko townread go? Down the drain because Myko started getting heat for proposing to Enchant.

Mala and Datisi are both people that Dunn's shaded. All of these three people (ceph, dat, mala) can go "either way". It seems to me like that's just a good way to say these are the swing votes that decide the game but if any of them SR me, they are useless to me.

I mentally blocked off Enchant

I said earlier that they are currently unreadable and I stand by that. Maybe staying unreadable is scummy. It's not clear to me why they think they need to choose carefully in 412, or what they mean by 'fearless'

Enchant shade.

You guys seem awfully confident that I'm scum based on a fault premise

That me saying 'but' somehow softened my stance, but in reality I was talking about two different things

"You guys" Keep in mind you guys is referring to Lukewarm and I and a brief brief little nod from fire. Everyone else who has weighed in has disagreed or reacted somewhat negatively. Prism, Cephrir, Ydrasse.

Propose to malakittens

This is the post right after the last one...

This is being pushed primarily by Noraa and Lukewarm, both of which have ample motive to flip the elimination if they are mafia

I went from showing up 7 times in Luke's iso to showing up 61 times in Luke's iso while I was asleep because he latched on hard to it. I think we should leave Luke out.

I don't think that noraa's push is nearly as convincing as it's being made out to be

Lukewarm shade. Noraa shade.

I want to make another analogy. Scum Dunn is like a playground seesaw. Scum Dunn wants a state of equilibrium where the number of people they TR and SR are equal and there is a constant state of majority TRs Dunn. People drop off the TRs as they become pushable, and other people become possible replacements "could go either way" People who agree with dunn stay firmly in TR and people who don't stay in SR until the TRs start falling. This one isnt as good as the clay analogy but it'll get better hopefulyl as i keep going.

[Noraa]

For the record, it's not true that I give softer stances as scum compared to when I'm town. And if it is true, then somebody should make an effort towards proving that instead of taking noraa at their word.

This post is really interesting. "somebody should make an effort to prove it rather than taking noraa at their word" evolves into "noraa substantiate your claims"
let's think about why that evolved into that. because dunn was uncertain at the beginning since no one gave firm stances on the situation of Dunn vs Noraa.
But then Dunn realized everyone found me scummy as fuck so his stance changed. It went from dunn vs everybody (Dunn trying to convince everybody) immediately to Noraa vs everybody (Noraa defending from everybody)
The immediate defensive and careful approach that Dunn took here is just not what town dunn does. Town dunn is more likely to straight up ignore my argument and legitimately get murdered day 1 than they are to take this approach.

What you're doing isn't even comparable. You're making posts like this:

I mean, I already explained why I find dunn scum plausible.

And luke is pre-flipping two players based on both of my alignments on shoddy logic. You've made maybe 3 posts about me and luke has over 20.

But sure, it's all a part of my master plan to have left you out.

Notice how I am the main pusher of the Dunn wagon. But Dunn never directly confronts me until they realize that everyone is on their side. First they ask people to prove my claims. Then they shade lukewarm and Bell. They double down on bell shade after this.

Spoiler: Luke's push on Dunnstral

Re:Nora's read on Dunn.


I have thoughts but they feel convoluted.

I am not consciously scum reading Dunn, but I am definitely not town reading him either.

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is, but I do feel like there is a difference between this game and one where i was ready to hard defend him like in say Web of Lies or Shakespeare.

I kind of like the fact that Noraa is picking up a difference there as well, since web of lies we were both ready to go to bat for Dunn, and this neither of us are town reading him this game.

It is making me rethink my Noraa scum read. Which is annoying because I don't have enough of them as it is :/

My hero solve for day 1 is Prism, Dunn, then one of Myko/enchant.

Not taking questions [just for posterity] thanks!

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

Hmmm. I don't want Noraa and Datisi paired.

If we are leaving Dunn behind, I think I want

Me+Mala
Noraa+Fire
Ceph+Datisi.

If Noraa is being left behind, I would want

Me+Mala
Dunn+Datisi
Cehp+Fire

Hmmm. I don't want Noraa and Datisi paired.

If we are leaving Dunn behind, I think I want

Me+Mala
Noraa+Fire
Ceph+Datisi.

If Noraa is being left behind, I would want

Me+Mala
Dunn+Datisi
Cehp+Fire

I am realizing that there are too many moving parts for me to try and get it to where someone can hammer one option or the other. So, I can't really orcastrate this choice, and that is frustrating.

Me+Mala, and then Noraa+Fire, giving Dats the hammer between Ceph and Dunn might be the closest things that I can see. But, I don't really see Fire agreeing to that because he was scum reading Noraa.

Ugh, I have thoughts, and I desperately want to be more strategic in the way that I disseminate my thoughts to the thread, and not just blurt every thought I have out. But I am struggling to find the best way to do it. So, I guess I failed, and I am blurting my thoughts out.

I hated Datisi's 587.

The moment I read it, my brain said that that is a mafia scared of a quick switch in thread perception of their partner. Nora made a case, I started shifting my reads (575), Fire said it was convincing (577). And then Datisi dropped 587.

It bothered me that it didn't call Dunn town, or town case him. It just called Noraa's reasons NAI - pumping breaks on the shift, without committing to calling Dunn town
Then said he was questioning his reads, then said he was gonna do some isos. Sets him up for a new push somewhere else all in one go.
----
So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.
----

I also didn't like 616, but in a way that is harder for me to put into words.

----

One the other hand, I feel like if Dunn flips town, I feel like scum!Datisi would be less likely to try and pump the breaks on the Dunn read shift. So, I much prefer flipping Dunn over any of the other options (Being me, noraa, Ceph, and Dunn), because he is not one of my town reads, and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa.

Pedit: Datisi just posted a change in stance, and I don't really know who to feel about it :/

I have read through 616->617->618 a few times... I feel like my thoughts are bad.

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance. Followed by an olive branch. And then deciding he needed to not look like Dunn's partner. But this is an incredibly self centered way to read that interaction, and so it is probably bad.

Like it would require Dats to realize that I paired him with Dunn, and then him changing his stance just in response to me, and that seems unlikely when I think about it logically.

Okay. If I separate out the bad thoughts, I think I am here:

Scum!Dunn town locks Noraa, who could be miseliminated fairly easily otherwise. and
Town!Dunn reverts me back to thinking that Datisi is town.

I will wait to consider the inverses until a later date, because the bad thoughts live in the inverses.

Noraa is currently town in my brain. Ceph is pretty null.

So, I still want a Dunn flip today.

he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

I actually typed out a more explicit version of

Town Dunn -> Scum Noraa, but then deleted it because I realized that I don't really know if that is true. I think I would need to reevaluate her there.

So, I actually think

Town Dunn-> Town Dats, and a need to reevaluate Noraa.
Scum Dunn -> Town Noraa, and a need to reevaluate you.

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance.

this part is true

i have reread the posts you have made that page, and even while KNOWING you were thinking about dats/dunn at the time, i still cannot see how i was supposed to see that from those posts, so

Responding to this post feels like one of my posts that serve no purpose, but I have broken the self restraint dam for the afternoon.

I mean, I openly suggested that you and dunn should be paired if dunn were not killed this day phase. And, if you and dunn really are scum together, I feel like that would have been an easy thing to spot. but, :shrug:

Here is a final post of Luke living his life as an open book, and then I am getting off of here for the night, and going to try again to turn back on the self restraint.

Here I was living my best life, reading through the thread. And vaguely concerned that I did not have any strong scum reads other then noraa. Then, Noraa decides to drop zir scum case on Dunn, and rock my world view, because I have had repeated thoughts on Dunn not being obviously town to me despite him having been in our last couple games, but not really having a scum read on him. Just noticing that it wasn't the same. And ze walks in saying that ze also noticed something different about Dunn, and felt like we were having similar thoughts about Dunn especially given our interactions wrt to dunn during and after the web of lies game. It gave me pretty strong "this is a similar mind looking at Dunn" and skyrocked Noraa out of my scum reads. Not even convinced that it made Dunn scum, just that zir and I were picking up the same things. So Noraa Town.

Suddenly, I am not living my best life anymore because I have no scum reads, and that is a sad life to lead in a game with 3 scum in it. So, then I started thinking about the fact that that likely means that the scum team has strong scum players in it. Prism and Dunn are both (in my opinion) very strong scum players that were both chilling in my null reads. So, I started thinking about a world where they were scum, and it made the world make a lot more sense, and why I was struggling to see red. Enter my hero solve of 582.

Boom, bam, ca pow. Dats' 587. My mind is racing. We got a scum team now fellas. That screamed partner reaction to me boys. Lets throw my hero solve away QUICK. New solve, Dunn+Datisi+[enchant/myko/Prism].

Gears are tumbling on how to live in this world. The answer: Leave dunn behind, and do everything I can do to not be paired with Dats. Enter, Proposing to Mala in 592. But wait! I shouldn't let Dats know I am on to him! There is no way for him to die this day phase, so no need to spill the beans right now. See 596. I got a secret, and I ain't sharing. ho ha.

Now what. I am proposing to Mala, how do I thwart the evil plans of the Dunn+Dats scum team. I know. Post 605. We kill Dunn! AND, we don't let Noraa pair with Dats. That will show them. But wait. People might not buy killing Dunn. What is the next best alternative? Pair Dunn and Datisi, OBVIOUSLY. I'm gonna be a good little boy, and cover my bases. Take that scum team.

Noraa posts 606, and my brain short circuits. How the hell do I tell zir why i don't want them paired without revealing my partner pair of Dunn+Dats. This is impossible. How do I stay one step ahead.

I guess I gotta spill the beans. Let my deranged thoughts flow. post 625.

Then I read dat's 616->618. And I typed out a whole thought process on how they were still partners. And then I had a flash back to that Tris game, where I wrote a dissertation on why Chaos and Dats were scum partners, and I was wrong. So, I started second guessing myself, and calling those Bad Thoughts. post 629.

And, since I was seeing those similarities, I started feeling like I should back off of the partner pair aspect of my thinking, and focus more on the townspew that come from the dunn flip (635), and that is my final conclusion of my flurry of thoughts on the whole thing.

Although, me thinking about how similar this situation is to the Tris game, but Dats not seeing it, and instead just calling me scummy did ping me all over again - but i went back to that interaction, and Dat's reaction to that was also to loudly start calling me scum, so :shrug:

I still like my town spews on a Dunn flip, but I am walking back somewhat the scum implications of the flips. We can cross that bridge when we get there.

And *bow*

You have all been privy to the hamster running on a wheel that is my thoughts.

I am going to get off of here, and when I return on the marrow, I shall try to bring back the self restrained version of myself you have all been growing accustomed to.

pedit: I see something I want to respond to, and so I shall before I get off of here.

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

Can I ask what my master plan is in this scenario then? If you are town, and I am scum?

Is my partner Dunn, and I am trying to get him killed today, and set up a partner association on you? If so, why would I ever aim to kill off Dunn here? He is better then me lmao. I would be trying to either keep Nora in the death crosshairs, or possibly even falling on my sword for him if I didn't think we could get Noraa though.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

----

Too be clear, I am actvely trying to not partner associate you any more, but your argument that I am scum doing this feels bad.

Which funny enough, is making me lean back towards you being town, because I feel like I typed up this exact message to you in that Tris game.

Spoiler: Noraa's push on Dunnstral

ok read breakdown
prism's SR on me is the worst because it's very sudden and doesn't feel genuine. like the thing is this idea of me wanting to beat good players is meh at best in general. on top of that, prism hasn't really played with me much so having that much confidence in a meta tell like that is weird. i liked the intreactions with me re: andante pairing but pairing with andante is still something that just doesn't sit well with me. there's not much other content that can be juiced out of that pairing, but it's just ... a bad feeling. it feels like the exact move an experienced scum player would pull and I cant stop thinking that.

everyone TRing Dunn is a bad look on it's own. In what game has town dunn ever been townread this way? like if the playlist doesnt look like Cabd ffery peta LLD etc, it doesn't really happen. Obviously this is a very 1 dimension way to explain this read, but explaining it further is hard and I do want to wait for more dunn content to get the most out of the ISO.

Lukewarm feels very ... weird tonally. But I think Lukewarm becomes clear with time. So like if it's like day 3 and more than half of the playerlist thinks Lukewarm is scum, eliminate, no questions asked.

Ydrasse I initially thought was town (after all of the assuming i mean) for all of the interactions with me, but I'm actually inclined to take it back. Scum ydrasse is capable of so much that I shouldn't carelessly give a town pass before day 2 at the very least.

and now im bored and dont want to finish this. i might come back and finish things later

dunn will flip scum 9/10 times here

i finished my iso and i want to get straight to the point here. i am paranoid but i am pretty damn certain dunn is scum. if dunn flips town here, i will never say im good at reading dunn again.

i dont know what other people's alignments are to any degree of certainty because i know i've been playing scummily and i know mass scumreads on me mess with my reads. but i dont think dunn is town despite all of that. every other read could be completely wrong, we could have 6 scum, but i dont think dunn can be town.

i have been wrong on dunn before but i dont think im wrong here and to be absolutely honest, me saying this will not matter if i die today. because dunn will float straight to endgame and then people will either lose to them or manage to come around to this read.

on the other hand, if dunn is left behind today, i am cleared with a scum flip there since dunn would obviously be a bigger asset to the scum team than me based on the current game state.

also im not going to lie, im quite sure most of my other reads are wrong at this point. the fact that the gamestate looks like this and everything seems to work so perfectly in my head (scum team is perfectly 3 people, everyone else seems towny) means most of my reads are wrong. but the one on dunn isnt.

i want to get straight to the point here

why is dunn scum

Dunn's just trying too hard to be likable. they're trying too hard to be a good townie and town dunn isnt a good townie. town dunn does their own thing and doesnt care what anyone else thinks.

scum!dunn that i know of doesn't actually *do* much of anything

dunn doesnt really do much regardless of alignment. what's important is how they do the thing sthat they do do.

are there any specific posts that made you think dunn is trying to be likeable?

yes one second

I don't think Bell looks bad here but I do want to go against the notion that just posting means they can't be scum

I liked that mykonian gave a lot of reads with explanations early on and that it is believable

Noraa is meh because 142 doesn't really make sense, 158 seems to be painting a narrative for something that isn't actually happening which is weird. 177 is also weird because they're not really paying attention to what is being said, which is that they are going to post very little in the pt.

Lukewarm has the worst posts among the gents so far in my opinion. I believe them about their energy level, but they ask a lot of questions that are low impact. Right now if I had to choose between the gents who have posted it would be here unfortunately

I had sort of forgotten what scum dunn looked like for a moment but then i saw this post. There's so much wrong with this one tiny post.
"I dont think Bell looks bad here but ..."
no, town dunn doesnt say that. town dunn just says ok stop with bc about bell posting = bell town

the entire read on me was way too smooth. it was just not worded the way town dunn would do it. town dunn would just say like Noraa isnt paying attention and makes no sense.

the lukewarm read ends wiht "unfortunately" nah there is nothing unfortunate to town dunn about lukewarm dying regardless of lukewarms alignment.

town dunn doesnt soften their stances, if that makes any sense. All of what dunn is doing is not giving firm opinions and the reason is so that everything is still in soft clay form. They can play around with it. if one elimination doesnt work, swap it out for another. that solve doesnt look right? throw a different person in. that is not how town dunn works. town dunn's reads are like BAM this is what i think. Changing an opinion isnt a flow-y process, it's more of a bam this happened do you have an issue with it?

people townread softer stances because they dont feel absolute. they dont feel like the person isnt willing to reassess. but town doesnt think about that consciously or subconsciously whereas scum does. scum needs to always have different options on the table because they have many different paths to victory but need to choose wisely otherwise it could be a dead end.

town only has 1 path to victory. town must have the exact scum team dead whereas scum can have any combination mix and match of town dead.

i also feel like another thing dunn is doing is like saying really obvious things.
like saying thinks like "prism is doing this ... which makes me nervous"
and the thnig is that i think that would be somethign that is obvious to town dunn. like town dunn would just be like uhh prism is doing this and expect that you could tell they take issue with it.

agh i am genuinely so paranoid i need a hydra buddy more than ever right now but i really really think dunn is scum and it's agh. i dont know im very nervous to be wrong because im under pressure and my reads tend to break under pressure but i genuinely feel like this is right.

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

this is the best i've ever explained my read on dunn but everyone agreeing still freaks me out. if everyone does end up agreeing, it means the read is wrong. just saying.

you know i really want to say dunn is town simply because prism agrees but that is probably not a good idea.

Noraa can you explain your change in attitude and general approach this game?
What’s the game plan? Why were you more mature this game than usual? What changed in how you decided to respond to people?
Why do you seem a little bit sad at the beginning of the game? Why did you delay your solving? Why did you try to present yourself as patient at the beginning of the game? Why did you ask for a truce with Andante? What do you think of Ydrasse right now?

I’m not sure if any of these questions will help me reach the right conclusions but it’s worth a shot.

i dont want to answer most of these questions because i want to stop playing such an emotionally invested game and explaining these things will only make me more emotionally invested.
i asked for a truce because i dont want a 1v1 with andante on day 1 like page 3. total waste of time for absolutely everyone because no one is going to be able to read either of us off of it. we arent going to read each other off of it. nothing comes from it.

i think if dunn is scum, ydra makes a lot of sense as a partner especially with the early saying wanting to pair with dunn and then immediately dropping that idea. i dont reeally like drawing associations though so tentative.

datisi whcih of me and dunn is more likely scum

dunn

if it wasn't clear, i am leaning towards accepting your proposal, but making decisions in mafia games is scary and i'd rather shitpost a little bit more before actually pulling the trigger

ok i can understand that. i just felt like all this situation can be summed up into that question.
oh wait actually
HOLD UP


i have an idea. it's slightly dumb but think about it. If we leave me, dunn and datisi unpaired, then me dying would confscum dunn. it's clear dunn is a greater asset to town than me. if dunn dies, well that would mean i was wrong on them. and datisi cannot die since datisi is the only lady.

i almost want to say i'd rather we leave out ceph today becuase im going to feel bad about dunn regardless of what they flip. becuase if they flip town, my overconfidence killed them and i die the next day so it's just chaining up town eliminations. if they flip scum, i also feel bad because they could've been alive at endgame and played an excellent game which would have been completely shattered by me. sigh ok whatever. im going to iso a couple more times datisi dont accept yet.
if dunn is town, i'd rather leave day 1 than have them leave

i don't actually think people do townread softer stances as a general rule. i should know, i basically put out nothing but soft stances ever

scum dunn balances it out better than you do. if you are too soft with stances, you look too agreeable and then people think ur just scum thats ok with everyone but yourself

i think dunn is scum and if i thought dunn was town, i would entirely be willing to be left out if it were me vs them.
dunn is on the verge of death. there are only 2 pairs left. Both you and lukewarm have proposed. dunn is absolutely on the verge of death.

Mala dont make any impuslive decisions please. lukewarm is like the most transparent town in the world. Like if we leave ceph instead of dunn, that's somewhat acceptable. but it's not acceptable to leave lukewarm

Spoiler: Bell's push on Dunnstral

Noraa’s case on dunn is good enough for me.

All I have to add to it for context is that dunnstral(not sure if they add for or against it)

Is that the last(and only) time I ran into Dunn scum they asked some very inane questions and made some very inane points. Which they did here until transitioning out of it for the most part. I also know that Dunn has joined a lot of dance games so I expect higher levels of investment for him as either alignment. Because he revealed the secret that the more interested he is in a game the more he posts in it.
And I guess because he keeps joining dance games he likes them very much.

Phone post. Woo.

1. Noraa has been unique this game. A lot less aggri, a lot more organized, they gave themselves a time limit of 20 pages and I’m used to them just solving solving solving. So it feels out of character. I’m also not sure what to make of their instant collapse into self-recrimination about a dunn town flip, since they don’t actually do that when they’re town until after the flip and sometimes not even then if I remember correctly. It’s possible it’s designed just to look like they don’t know. On the other hand, they set themselves up as the Dunn expert so it’s a unique situation. I don’t think their credibility will be shot as much as they think, but I also don’t even know why I’m saying this because goddamn, if there’s one thing I don’t need more of this game it’s town reads.

do noraa and dunn have history and is ze usually able to read them well?

Yes. They’ve been consistently good about reading them. I have no idea if it’s luck. Given their reasoning has been down right terrible sometimes. But they were still right anyway. So *wiggles hands*

I mean, I already explained why I find dunn scum plausible.
Primarily because while he always jumps on the complain train when I get town binned as a word of caution.
Some of his questions have down right sucked and I associate that specifically with scum Dunn because he did that one whole time and thus it is always true from now until the end of time.

I encourage anyone interested in what Bell is saying here to read through these and form your own opinions as to why I mentioned Luke and Noraa but not Bell when talking about players pushing me.

Mega bell shade.

3/5 of Bell's push is actually just hiding behind Noraa anyway

Bell shade.

Mala dont make any impuslive decisions please.

mala should accept lukewarm asap though

Which is it?

Or is it "Mala don't make any impulsive decisions... unless it's what I want"

Now FINALLY after all of that shade on lukewarm and bell (both people who didnt start pushing Dunn until I did), we are FINALLY started to address the main pusher. Dunn is working their way up. Starting from Bell who doesnt SR dunn but believes in my reads. To Lukewarm who is similar but also SRs Dunn a certain amount. Finally to Noraa who completely SRs Dunn off of original reasons. There's no reason town defends themselves in such calculating and idk planned ways.

Noraa arguing in bad faith, that's crazy

And this post is funny. It implies that I argue in bad faith a lot, which then implies that what I am doing is NAI. But Dunn has never had a problem with me being left behind today. Not once. Another thing about this post is that all of these posts directed at me are softened stances. In the post before this one, Dunn is calling me unreasonable. In this one, dunn is saying that I argue in bad faith a lot. Compare that to the posts Dunn directs are Lukewarm and Bell. All of them are much stronger. But why is Dunn attacking the people with weaker stances so much harder? Because they are easier to dismiss. Both Lukewarm and Bell are less convinced than me. And Dunn can convince the rest of the game that their arguments are bad but Dunn doesn't know if they can do that for mine.

Town doesnt think like that pfft. You get SRed by three people, is the first thing you think "oh wow that person looks like the easiest person to defend against, im goign to tunnel them". No, the first person you address is the person who is SRing you for SHITTY META REASONS. Liek if my entire meta case was wrong, that would be the most annoying think for town dunn to see. Because this person is lying about your meta history and we all care very much about that because "you arent me you dont fucking know what i think"

town does not work their way up the pyramid of SRs slowly breaking the entire foundation of it apart. Town does not PLAN out their defenses that way. No.

[Noraa]

This game doesnt deserve my beautiful walls tbh.

[Noraa]

Im off. this is too much work. Every point i made is just going to show up again and again if i continue so there's no point in continuing.

my points are there. if people dont want to consider them in good faith, no matter what i say, people will think i am wrong. if datisi is already set, then more walls will not change anything. if datisi isnt set, even the shortest posts will be enough to make a difference.

i've been the most logical and analytical noraa i've ever been in my life and if datisi cant see it, there is nothing i can do at this point. im not posting a single time more this day phase. this game has far more than enough content from me. which iso comes from town and which doesnt is clear as day. i hope town makes the right choice. toodles

[Noraa]

town does not work their way up the pyramid of SRs slowly breaking the entire foundation of it apart.

last post actually. This is the STRONGEST point in the entire case. If you only remember one thing, this should be it.

[Cephrir]

hm

is there like, any meta for you trying this hard

it seems unusual to me but i've only played with you a handful of times

[Cephrir]

i guess i could just get off my ass and look myself (and collect a townread from lukewarm in the process! ) but im kinda busy today.

[Bell]

Yes, Noraa even started the game off by saying they were trying to get less invested in games.

[Prism]

I plan to circle back later tonight to finish the last ~10 pages. I am sorry for how vicious and apathetic I have been this game, and for the fact that it will likely happen again. I will try to rein it in.

My stance right now is unchanged. I'm not sold Noraa is town, but I prefer both Dunnstral/Lukewarm to be flipped over zir. I don't mind waiting on Lukewarm.

[Bell]

Though noraa gets plenty invested in scum games.

I still prefer Dunn even though Noraa has been weird this game.

[fireisredsir]

bell, you want dunn > noraa > luke left behind? i don't remember you talking about luke much do you have thoughts there?

[Bell]

Never played with scum luke. Don’t see what everyone else is seeing. Don’t see how Lukewarm trying to brain dump is scummy.

[Dunnstral]

The immediate defensive and careful approach that Dunn took here is just not what town dunn does. Town dunn is more likely to straight up ignore my argument and legitimately get murdered day 1 than they are to take this approach.

There it is

I'm scum for defending myself

[Dunnstral]

It's also not true, when have I ever rolled over and died as town?

[Dunnstral]

For the record, it's not true that I give softer stances as scum compared to when I'm town. And if it is true, then somebody should make an effort towards proving that instead of taking noraa at their word.

This post is really interesting. "somebody should make an effort to prove it rather than taking noraa at their word" evolves into "noraa substantiate your claims"
let's think about why that evolved into that.

Because you didn't substantiate your claims

[Dunnstral]

But Dunn never directly confronts me until they realize that everyone is on their side.

Who is this everyone

[Dunnstral]

My reads on the remaining ladies are that fireisred is town and Malakittens + Datisi can both go either way.

I suspect that fireisred is going to want to save Cephrir here. Incidentally I also think that Cephrir could go either way.

Honestly Datisi has some posts I like but I think they can fake it

Fire is town. Why? Dunn doesn't always explain reads as town either, but I have a hard time believing this doesn't have to do with fire pretty much agreeing with everything dunn has said. "Because fire likes Cephrir, I'm alright with cephrir" is basically the 2nd and 3rd sentence in one. Also where did the myko townread go? Down the drain because Myko started getting heat for proposing to Enchant.

It's very clear that I am talking about the unpaired ladies in this post

Myko is a gentleman

[Dunnstral]

link me the game, i'll post by post analyse it. if you are right that dunn truly was low effort and broke all of my meta tells, i will agree to pairing with mala or fireisred.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=85877

the reason why i was grilling you so much about it was because you were the one to bring it up in the first place, how you didn't want to kill your town partner if dunn were to flip green. i wouldn't have said anything if your point was simply "i'm town and i don't wanna die if dunn is green", which like, understandable, but you did specifically say that you didn't want to cause deaths of two other townies

my read on dunn isn't meta, the only thing i can conclude meta-wise is that he's playing different than all the other games i've seen him in, both town and scum. i'm usually down to sheep people who have a bop on someone else if i townread them, but (1) you don't actually seem *that* sure about dunn flipping red, since you pretty consistently bring up "if dunn is green etc", and (2) i'm not yet 100% sold you're town

Noraa was the one who was bringing up the point about them not wanting to "drag you down", and then they acted like they actually didn't care about that. Yes that is unnatural.

It is interesting that Noraa has no comment on the game you linked.

[Dunnstral]

I think that the Prism-Andante pair should be the next full pair elimination during the 7 day long phase which happens after both mafia kill somebody and the unpaired player has a chance to replace a partner

Prism major scum vibes, Andante decent equity

[Dunnstral]

And I don't care one lick about Prism's self meta of how they'd totally be pushing more as scum

[Prism]

You might want to hold yourself to your own standard and elaborate on these "scum vibes"

[Prism]

Shame you seem to have taken the loss in D&C so hard. It was the worst scumgame I'd played since 2016.

[Dunnstral]

You seem more interested in defending yourself than in figuring out what to do with the current elimination

I think your snap defense of andante saying they are definitely town was unwarranted because the argument makes sense. Andante completely stopped posting and they also are putting very little effort into the current elimination.

For instance, Andante said they were going to look over something from my meta but now that I've become a topic, they both aren't doing that and aren't acknowledging that it's been brought up that they're not doing that. Indeed, they don't seem to be reading my posts at all which gets a side-eye as well.

I'm referring to your post 880 here. I see that you have a different stance in post 939 which shows that you are more open to reevaluation

As for yourself, You're not posting because you're not feeling well and/or are busy but you keep coming back to the same argument which is that you create a gamestate and play differently as scum

You did this same thing in the last game I saw you as scum. You argued how the current actions you were taking were outside of your scum meta and how it indicated you were town. That's what I see you doing here