Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Prism]

...Do you understand why, hypothetically if I am town, the two quotes from D&C and Shakespeare, each of which cite a shared concrete behavior from Dunn, with a second provided in Shakespeare, gives me real pause and concern about the legitimacy of the more vague "just screams at me" where Dunnstral's alignment appears to be somewhere in between a bowel movement and divine revelation?

Note that "firm grasp [holistically] of reading Dunn" does not mean that you are YOLO gutreading, it meets you are not completely confident or certain of what tells are decisive. I am very happy to tell you what you meant given that you cited concrete actions & inactions in the games.

[Prism]

I see you counterpointed it with a quote from Web of Lies about not using activity explicitly to read him. I'll revisit in the morning. I think 1075 is mostly fine as-is, since it is primarily questioning my own intent behind the read while you are so worried I am playing "Gotcha!".

[Lukewarm]

I see you counterpointed it with a quote from Web of Lies about not using activity explicitly to read him. I'll revisit in the morning. I think 1075 is mostly fine as-is, since it is primarily questioning my own intent behind the read while you are so worried I am playing "Gotcha!".

Am currently responding to 1075, but wanted to say that the "gotcha" comment was more related to the way that Dunn chimed into the conversation

[Dunnstral]

You gave reasoning here that you didn't in the town game and that is the part that Prism has a problem with

The line:

But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

Is not an opinion you have previously expressed, and in fact it looked like you were talking about activity from the full quote

You seem to be approaching this conversation in a way to "gotcha" me on a technicality of the way that I expressed my self in different conversations in different contexts were not identical.

In the other conversation, I didn't say that I would go to bat to defend you because you are inactive. I explicitly say so in a later post in that conversation

I don't use this [activity levels] to read him -
But I will laugh at anyone who ever tells me that low activity dunn is scum dunn forever now.

Do you have some kind of point to make on how or why this would even me more likely to be scum, or are we just dancing around until I stumble over my words and give you something to latch on to?

My point is that this part of this post:

Spoiler:

Lukewarm, do you believe that I have softer stances when I roll mafia?

This is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer, but I don't have a conscious metric by which I read you.

But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

First game being Divide and Conquer, following games that screamed at me that you were town being Shakespeare and Web of Lies (prior to your FN reveal).

And then there are games where you don't feel that way: Those being Control (I spectated that game), Isekai, and Bloodstained. 2/3 of those games are scum game.

This game, your vibes were definitely in the second category.

I am very skeptical of this read looking at all three of the cited towngames but I'll circle back later when I'm not trying to catch up.

Would be a shame if I talked about my feelings about reading Dunn in a prior thread during the post game.

Neither verifies nor goes against your original claim in 820, but you are saying that it does

[Lukewarm]

...Do you understand why, hypothetically if I am town, the two quotes from D&C and Shakespeare, each of which cite a shared concrete behavior from Dunn, with a second provided in Shakespeare, gives me real pause and concern about the legitimacy of the more vague "just screams at me" where Dunnstral's alignment appears to be somewhere in between a bowel movement and divine revelation?

Note that "firm grasp [holistically] of reading Dunn" does not mean that you are YOLO gutreading, it meets you are not completely confident or certain of what tells are decisive. I am very happy to tell you what you meant given that you cited concrete actions & inactions in the games.

Frankly, no. The whole conversation seems incredibly convoluted.

Luke said that he does not really have a firm paradigm by which he reads dunn. BUT, in this older game, Luke said "Dunn ghosted this game, and I think he is likely town for it"

And for some reason, that supposedly concerned you? That I don't have a firm grasp in a general sense, but had clear reasons in specific instances?

And then, what does it even have to do with this game? Did he ghost this one, and you feel like I am therefore judging him differently then I did in that game? No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

And the second quote you pulled, was one where I was talking about his interactions with a flipped scum, and that I didn't think that it was done in a way that made sense if that was his partner. Which once again, what would that even have to do with this one?

Like it frankly feels like you are arguing that since in this game, I did not take the time to detail reasons that I town read him in prior games, I am scummy, which is very ???? to me.

[Dunnstral]

No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

I barely posted until I got accused of being mafia and people were angling to leave me out of the dance, including you.

So you're wrong, this did happen and you were scumreading me while it was happening.

[Prism]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

[Cephrir]

This is very hard to care about

[Lukewarm]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

Hey remember when I said that Prism's approach to this game is very similar to her approach in her scum game.

[Bell]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

I barely posted until I got accused of being mafia and people were angling to leave me out of the dance, including you.

So you're wrong, this did happen and you were scumreading me while it was happening.

You know this is a bad thing right.

[Lukewarm]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

Hey remember when I said that Prism's approach to this game is very similar to her approach in her scum game.

I really do not like what Esther has given either, I don't know if she is just annoyed because I've never pushed her before or what, but I feel confident that 391 is a borderline scumclaim.

We are definitely not taking the game in the same way but even with the description you're giving this seems completely unsalvageable.

Will still revisit later but yeah.

[Prism]

You again willfully ignore that my D&C push was explicitly and very exactly matched tonally & stylistically to pushes I have made as town over the last calendar year. I will readily own up to the tone being almost identical, and I have highlighted my agreement repeatedly.

Just an incredible amount of bad faith argumentation.

[Prism]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

This links to two posts describing stylistically how my push was carefully crafted to mirror the tone/meta of my town shoves.

[Lukewarm]

You again willfully ignore that my D&C push was explicitly and very exactly matched tonally & stylistically to pushes I have made as town over the last calendar year. I will readily own up to the tone being almost identical, and I have highlighted my agreement repeatedly.

Just an incredible amount of bad faith argumentation.

I am not sure how to read this any other way then "I am so good, you can't possibly scum read me in good faith" - which is both very unconvincing, and also feels like a bad faith argument in itself.

I'll scum read you when I see you play in a way that looks like your scum game while simultaneously being distinctly differently then you did in our town game, until proven otherwise. Not going to ignore my own reads because you apparently have such am amazingly large ego.

I'm getting off of here. Good night.

[Bell]

What ever happened to Mykonian anyway.
+++ there have been a lot of people who have just disappeared the second they got a partner and if there weren’t so many of them I’d want them dead on total principal.

[Dunnstral]

You know this is a bad thing right.

It's not, in the context of this argument.

I had 24 posts at my post 505

The next time I post is post 669. and at this point Luke is calling me mafia

I now have 116 posts and we're at 1090

So what's important here is that Luke says:

Luke said that he does not really have a firm paradigm by which he reads dunn. BUT, in this older game, Luke said "Dunn ghosted this game, and I think he is likely town for it"

And for some reason, that supposedly concerned you? That I don't have a firm grasp in a general sense, but had clear reasons in specific instances?

And then, what does it even have to do with this game? Did he ghost this one, and you feel like I am therefore judging him differently then I did in that game? No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

But

is this true?

Here is what Lukewarm had to say in another game:

it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

I did fancy shit because why not?

Spoiler:

So, I ran all three games that you linked as well as every game that I can remember playing with Dunn through the spread sheet. Calculated Dunn's percentage of all posts made day 1 compared to how many players were in the game, then did conditional formatting to color his higher post rate games green. (because you are positing that lurk dunn = scum dunn) to then see if there is any corrolation.

The conditional formatting guessed incorrectly 4 times, got it right 1 time, and then it did not give a result on his middle of the road game.

If anything, this is wrong more then it is right, and lurk Dunn = town Dunn.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87781 - Chromatic Ascension, Dunn was Knight Beige
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=87638 - True Love
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83971 - Forest Fire

some (semi-)recent samples of lurkscum Dunn
there could be others from games I didn't keep tabs on but it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

-GE

I'm not lurking in the first 2 games, I'm town in the last game.

omg. If you were town in Forest fire, that would eliminate the singular correct guess based on posting habits, and it will have been wrong in every single listed game lmao

So, we have actual metrics to work with here. Dunn's posts: 24. Total Posts: 505-668 (probably the most fair somewhere in the middle). Number of players: 13.

Is Lukewarm's statement factually correct as they know it or not? This isn't theoretical, there is a real answer to this question.

[Lukewarm]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

This links to two posts describing stylistically how my push was carefully crafted to mirror the tone/meta of my town shoves.

Maybe I don't think you're are as good at meta matching your tone as you think you are

Your tone in Divide and Conquer felt similar to Tris's game, and similar to this game (after you returned from being away). But literally all three games felt very different to me then your tone in Forest Fire, the town game I have played with you.

I felt a distinct tone difference across those three games where I know your alignment. So no, I am not gonna just accept you declaring that your tone is unreadable at face value.

[Prism]

The tone and phrasing I use in shoving you matches because I went very far out of my way in D&C to make it match [my towngame]. This was flagged for you repeatedly in that postgame and again flagged for you immediately the second you first made the comparison. It should not be a surprise that my pushes look similar in tone given this.

I do not blame you for not townreading me for it. However, nothing else about this game comes even close to D&C, especially not before I started hounding you, and is virtually the opposite. Meanwhile 1075 is an abjectly terrible post.

[Prism]

lmao, aight, if you're town we'll talk about it postgame!

[Prism]

Actually, we won't, but you will have your answer.

[Prism]

1079, thought the mistake of saying 1075 is quite humorous.

[Bell]

I don’t know what to say to that Dunnstral, in that game he pointed out that you’re a little bit less active as town. But the argument in that game was just challenging the premise that activity determined your alignment, but even in that game, Luke never endorsed the idea that you were more likely town if you posted less. Only that he didn’t agree with someone else on the premise, I doubt he would act on that information when he never directly stated he believed it himself.

[Dunnstral]

And then, what does it even have to do with this game? Did he ghost this one, and you feel like I am therefore judging him differently then I did in that game? No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

[Prism]

I almost forgot you literally took issue with how spooky some of my phrasing this game was then I instantly linked to where I repeatedly and exclusively used that phrasing as town in the last 5 years

lmao

[Dunnstral]

Luke never endorsed the idea that you were more likely town if you posted less.

Disagree