Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[MalcolmTucker]

Human's transition on FL feels very weak and very much like a careful climbdown given where they were at before.

VOTE: Humaneatingmonkeys

you're right. i am hesitant. i still scumread FL fwiw, i'm just ignoring it for now until i get the chance to really dive into the game. koopa was right about the gamestate ultimately and i have to put aside ego for while.

Your change in playstyle feels very deliberate and measured here in a way that's still leaving me wary. When an FL wagon appeared viable you were gloating about it and saying you couldn't wait to see their ego crash after they were eliminated. Now that's failed and you're a possible elimination you're suddenly a lot more measured and reasonable. Open to changing my mind but not convinced otherwise on you being mafia for now.

[KittyTacky]

Are you really Russian? How are things there?

Yes. Not good.

Stay safe man

I am now thoroughly convinced why people do alts around here.

My last game I was answering for my last game and it seems the same is going on here…

This game…
This game
This game
This game


We are playing this game… not last game, not 5 games before … this game..

Pedit-yes, please be safe. We’re all human..

Thanks both of you.

And you can't expect people to not take past behavior into account to make guesses. That is indeed why people make alts, to slip under the radar. Just a consequence of the format, if it was like most online social deduction games (ToS, ToL, amogus) where you can pick a name every time you play it'd not have that aspect.

[MalcolmTucker]

For what it's worth while Scorpious is unhappy about meta-reading (and I get that) I'd probably find them a lot more suspicious if I was unaware they can play this way as town. So far their main push has been a poor push on a player who's claimed a role. I just think mafia Scorpious would be putting more thought into things here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM

HEM is focused on a few people, and pushes mala/italiano/FL.
His votes are never on Italiano though. This really looks like Italiano/HEM distancing from each other.
HEM 's play is totally different than another recent towngame.
Very likely scum.

fair observations. doesn't make me scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your change in playstyle feels very deliberate and measured here in a way that's still leaving me wary. When an FL wagon appeared viable you were gloating about it and saying you couldn't wait to see their ego crash after they were eliminated. Now that's failed and you're a possible elimination you're suddenly a lot more measured and reasonable. Open to changing my mind but not convinced otherwise on you being mafia for now.

i'm not a possible elimination. i'm either killed or endgamed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it is very deliberate and measured. i just told you.

[KittyTacky]

Koopa is the towniest town who ever towned and I think the wagon on them is very sus.

Why does everyone steal my catchphrase lmao?

It's a good catchphrase!

What are people’s reads on Mathblade?

They recently replaced into a lurky slot, I have a slight townlean on them but honestly it's too early to tell.

Koopa is the towniest town who ever towned and I think the wagon on them is very sus.

I don't really understand why people are voting a claimed PR or what they hope to achieve by making them a competing wagon.

Last game I played, a weak PR claim got away despite being very scummy day 1 just for being a PR claim, but this time Koopa is hardly scummy and they don't seem like a weak PR given that they didn't claim outright. Unless it's WIFOM.

Koopa is the towniest town who ever towned and I think the wagon on them is very sus.

who do you think is scum with malakittens in koopa's wagon?

Jackson and/or Scorp. I doubt it's both, just seems unlikely, but both are scummy to me.

[KittyTacky]

There's almost definitely at least one scum between {Malakittens, JacksonVirgo, Scorpious}. Italiano seems less scummy after a reevaluation but it's possible. But I'm voting between those three today barring something shaking up the gamestate in an extreme manner.

[MalcolmTucker]

Again on the presumption FL is town, I could see NK being the mafia on the FL wagon that was developing and now throwing HEM under the bus. From what I can see they'd not particularly suspect HEM until very recently but I'll need to go back and do an ISO scan to be sure on that.

[MalcolmTucker]

There's almost definitely at least one scum between {Malakittens, JacksonVirgo, Scorpious}. Italiano seems less scummy after a reevaluation but it's possible. But I'm voting between those three today barring something shaking up the gamestate in an extreme manner.

I honestly think it might end up being both town there, I don't see why mafia sit on the Koopa wagon at all right now given what we know.

Personally I've not felt Mala was mafia for the entire game so far for the most part but I do think their general lack of activity/lack of pushes is increasingly suspicious. Very much sitting back and letting others take charge after the early push on them. I also still maintain the quick attempt to wagon Mala again (3 votes in 13 posts) from you guys was incredibly suspect too.

[MalcolmTucker]

Kitty - what do you think of NK15?

[KittyTacky]

@Not Known 15
Malcolm played like this as town in Music Hits too IIRC, his indecisiveness is NAI.

There's almost definitely at least one scum between {Malakittens, JacksonVirgo, Scorpious}. Italiano seems less scummy after a reevaluation but it's possible. But I'm voting between those three today barring something shaking up the gamestate in an extreme manner.

I honestly think it might end up being both town there, I don't see why mafia sit on the Koopa wagon at all right now given what we know.

Personally I've not felt Mala was mafia for the entire game so far for the most part but I do think their general lack of activity/lack of pushes is increasingly suspicious. Very much sitting back and letting others take charge after the early push on them. I also still maintain the quick attempt to wagon Mala again (3 votes in 13 posts) from you guys was incredibly suspect too.

1. Why would

town

sit on Koopa? Not a rhetorical question. Koopa is jumpy with votes annnnd... that's about it. Hardly a reason to wagon an active player when scum is usually quieter.

2. It happened after I pointed out Mala's lurkiness.

Kitty - what do you think of NK15?

Town lean.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Now that's failed

also FWIW i think FL would be today's lim if I was actually scum because I'll have partners pushing with me

I also believe FL stopped being a wagon BECAUSE i hopped off, not the other way around

[MalcolmTucker]

@Not Known 15
Malcolm played like this as town in Music Hits too IIRC, his indecisiveness is NAI.

There's almost definitely at least one scum between {Malakittens, JacksonVirgo, Scorpious}. Italiano seems less scummy after a reevaluation but it's possible. But I'm voting between those three today barring something shaking up the gamestate in an extreme manner.

I honestly think it might end up being both town there, I don't see why mafia sit on the Koopa wagon at all right now given what we know.

Personally I've not felt Mala was mafia for the entire game so far for the most part but I do think their general lack of activity/lack of pushes is increasingly suspicious. Very much sitting back and letting others take charge after the early push on them. I also still maintain the quick attempt to wagon Mala again (3 votes in 13 posts) from you guys was incredibly suspect too.

1. Why would

town

sit on Koopa? Not a rhetorical question. Koopa is jumpy with votes annnnd... that's about it. Hardly a reason to wagon an active player when scum is usually quieter.

2. It happened after I pointed out Mala's lurkiness.

Kitty - what do you think of NK15?

Town lean.

Yeah I get it might be frustrating for some people but I tend to generally be quite indecisive - if I have a read on someone I will also generally tend to set out potential alternatives to my own argument in the same post. I get how mafia can approach the game this way too but generally I just like to make sure my full thoughts are out there re any player when I'm posting about them. Ultimately it's D1 and I'm personally aware my reads could be wrong.

I don't think I've been hesitant to make reads anyway - I've stated quite openly I think HEM could be mafia, if not HEM then I think it's probably NK15, and I personally think it could be Kitty as well if there's a team member who stayed off the FL bandwagon, albeit I've been liking Kitty's posts recently a bit more.

Re Scorpious/Jackson - I don't think mafia sit on this wagon because Koopa is really townie at this point and I think more self-aware mafia would probably go elsewhere or to a town slot that actually has a chance of being eliminated at the moment.

[MalcolmTucker]

Now that's failed

also FWIW i think FL would be today's lim if I was actually scum because I'll have partners pushing with me

I also believe FL stopped being a wagon BECAUSE i hopped off, not the other way around

From my readthrough at the time it felt like the wagon had gotten stuck and wasn't going to go through in the long-term. The players who was really all-in on pushing it through for a while appeared to be you, NK15 and Roden.

Koopa increasingly opposed it (you accused him of being pocketed), we had two replacements to come into the game, I don't get the impression Mala or Kitty or Scorpious particularly liked it, and I was fully against it going through. Where were the rest of your votes coming from there? As I say you were clearly very frustrated when Koopa started to back off because it initially appeared like you had a more solid block.

[KittyTacky]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

Sure. No order within categories.

Confirmed Town

KittyTacky

Strong Town

koopashell

Town Lean

Not Known 15
Flavor Leaf
MathBlade
MalcolmTucker

Null/Neutral

Andresvmb
humaneatingmonkey
Roden

Scum Lean

JacksonVirgo
Scorpious
ItalianoVD

Strong Scum

Malakittens

Confirmed Scum

Nobody!

[KittyTacky]

First time doing this list format, any feedback?

[humaneatingmonkey]

As I say you were clearly very frustrated when Koopa started to back off because it initially appeared like you had a more solid block.

I was clearly frustrated because FL is deliberately trolling me.

Then if you think there were no momentum to that push, tell me who supposedly is my team? Do you think all the voters in that wagon were scum? Do you really think I would set myself up to lose as scum by putting my entire team in a town!FL wagon not close into the deadline?

[KittyTacky]

MT, you still didn't answer my question as for why TOWNIES would sit on Koopa. It's a dumb play as scum but a dumber one as town. Maybe they're trying to make a wagon crystallize. Maybe just one is scum and the other is a scummy townie who got sheeped. IDK.

[KittyTacky]

I am also aware I am wrong on at least one scumread, since there are 3 scum and I have 4 scumreads. I doubt I just clapped all 3 scum day 1 but if I had to pick just one to be wrong about, it's be ItalianoVD.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also dont think i changed playstyles, MT. i stopped pushing FL. that was it. that was the change i made.

[koopashell]

VOTE: HEM

[MalcolmTucker]

i also dont think i changed playstyles, MT. i stopped pushing FL. that was it. that was the change i made.

You weren't just pushing Flavor though, you were gloating about his potential elimination and saying it'd be great to see his ego crumble etc. Now you seem a lot more open to compromise...and yet at the same time you're insisting the fact you backed off is the reason the wagon wouldn't work? If you still think Flavor is mafia, why back off at all?

[MalcolmTucker]

MT, you still didn't answer my question as for why TOWNIES would sit on Koopa. It's a dumb play as scum but a dumber one as town. Maybe they're trying to make a wagon crystallize. Maybe just one is scum and the other is a scummy townie who got sheeped. IDK.

I explained it above in 1164. It's a dumb town play but Scorpious didn't even know Koopa had role claimed. I don't think they've really been paying that much attention beyond their pretty crap push on Koopa.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i didn't appreciate FL's cockiness and felt like he was rubbing his scum face all over me and taunting me. i backed off because i want the discussion to stop because i realized i was having an emotional reaction. i'm still backing off because i think Mala is scum regardless of FL's alignment and find it better to vote there.