Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[Datisi]

i really wish we didn't have those few games where you were scumreading me for absolute nonsense reasons skitt, because if it weren't for them i could just call you scum here and be done with it

but you are forcing me to THINK

[skitter30]

I dont think its nonsense >.>
You feel different

And more bluster-y
Idk

[Shuichi Saihara]

why is it ridiculous? people can be logically correct and scum at the same time. you are very often. im not tryna be pedantic here i actually think this is somewhat significant since you are strongly dismissing a suspicion for something that i think is clearly invalid. so i want you to explain more in detail what your thought process is on this point

I agree with this and I suspect dwlee so you know it's legit.

[Aristeia]

you do feel a bit different dear :<

I don't really want to scumread you for it though ~_~

[Shuichi Saihara]

Let's go from opposite.

Why i need to vote prism again?

I think Prism is mafia because of mechanics and dayplay.



Mechanically speaking - I don't think it makes sense to have a town novice mailman and a town ascetic in a micro - you're setting up a very natural conflict to occur almost immediately because the mailman will think they are supposed to catch the ascetic and the ascetic is actually a mafia ascetic - you are immediately putting the town down one elim a large number of times and I don't see how you can compensate the town with another PR to offset this in a micro since our margin of error is very slim - we functionally usually only get 3 mislims total.

Also I don't think the setup makes sense for a town ascetic and a mafia ascetic because town ascetic claiming on D1 is going to draw out the mailman claim which then can't really find the mafia ascetic because the mailman will just get killed at night.

also novice mailman is an extremely weak role - functionally the only thing it can do is find a mafia ascetic that did not claim. You can't really set up a code to exchange claim or fake claim since by the time the message is sent, you're at D3 which is elo if we do not hit a mafia in d1/d2.

also like novice mailman is not a role that when claimed makes you town or w/e - it's not like a friendly neighbor or a mason in terms of power level that can prove itself.

I think in Micros, the power level of the town roles should be usually mason equivalent - as in 2 masons v 2 mafia 5 VT is a baseline level of balance.

so I just have trouble believing that a novice mailman role would have no utility or be purposefully a red herring to get a TvT conflict on D1 it's just silly in terms of balancing a micro. I can see a miller in a larger game like a Mini or a Large but in a Micro it just feels much too scumsided for me to accept.

Why does Prism claim ascetic as a mafia ascetic? - I think she has some expectation that she will be targeted at night. She enjoys playing mafia but she absolutely hates mechanical guilties with a passion - I think she has a strong enough reputation that nearly any TPR worth their salt would target her on night one and she knows this - I think she decided to claim it because why not? I don't think she expected a role as niche as "novice mailman" to exist on the TPR side - mechanically it pigeonholes her slot as mafia - that's why her initial kneejerk reaction was to hardpush me as mafia who was headhunting her etc by making up such a claim. I don't think I'm nearly creative enough to make up such a role to target her because I'm not a very bright person.

I am unsure exactly why she switched tack later on in the day - I believe she thinks maybe it is difficult to flip me or perhaps I would leave her alone if she townreads me and uses AtE.

On her dayplay I think she is decidedly less sharp than she usually is and it feels like she's more in anti-spew mode where she's just bantering and having fun rather than actually trying to push/hunt seriously which I know she is extremely good at.

I think she's taken this line of play as scum rather than her usual extremely strong and thread dominant style because she knows that I have certain expectations of how she plays mafia and she is trying to get townread off of indifference[yes I actually townread her when she's bored and joking I know it's stupid]

The overall feeling I get from reading her play this game is that she's more interested in surviving, giving few hints about associatives and not really interested in actually pushing/killing anyone she suspects, she feels like she is browsing through a brochure for like which hat to wear.

For the mech stuff- it looks like scum should be informed or have some hint about this interaction, too. I see it as strange in either case.

If anyone has another explanation for the mailman existing, they might want to say so, unless they're something really powerful.

I agree that Prism's day play has not felt sharp. I don't have much of a baseline for her save reputation, but my impression is that scum should be quivering in their boots with terror, and she has not been giving them any reason to do that so far.

[Aristeia]

skitter I think you are just picking up Datisi being different from his baseline for rl reasons rather than actual alignment issues because I think there are lines of play he takes as scum that he hasn't taken.

I am not basing this read off pre-flipping Prism as mafia.

I do know this looks stupid because I horribly misread him the last time I played with him but that was a terrible associative read and not actually based solely on his play.

[Datisi]

ari, what is vp's alignment?

[Aristeia]

I'm not sure.

He feels kind of scummy if Prism flips mafia.

He asked me questions about Prism but no real followup.

[skitter30]

He feels so off tho >.>

But fine

VOTE: dwlee

That's the third vote btw ^

[Aristeia]

I know he feels off but I don't think he feels scum off [if he's actually mafia never let me read Datisi again]

[Aristeia]

ok so this is a really stupid reason to townread Datisi and you can laugh at me for being stupid if it's completely wrong.

but like every time i ask him if he rolled town.

and he says something like "Yes I did dear and I am here to protect you and kill all the bad guys yada yada"

but this time I asked him and he just said "Yes"

and that's different from the other times because it's kind of cold and flat.

and I don't think he'd be different if he was mafia and trying to trick me.

[Aristeia]

but he is a psych major so maybe he's just tap dancing on my poor confused brain ~____~

[Aristeia]

I guess VP just feels kind of floaty and not really very committal to anything

[Datisi]

i actually townread 985 and i don't know how to feel about it

[skitter30]

Dats does any of that affect how ur reading me?

[Aristeia]

If skitter is town I am happy if both myself/Aristeia go in the dunce pile if skitter is scum I am going to burn down Aristeia's house throw rocks through Aristeia's window call Aristeia mean names gently reassure Aristeia and tell her it is okay we all make mistakes from time to time

I'll just go cry in the bathtub and drink a bottle of vodka while telling myself I'm not

worthless trash

awful at the game.

[Datisi]

Dats does any of that affect how ur reading me?

not by much

you did vaguely remind me of that game you got shitpushed and voted out so i guess a sorta kinda townie but uhhh dwlee is like one of my townreads sort of and i'm not sure i like your vote on them

[skitter30]

Uhh is it still nonsense that i think you're feeling off or ...

And why is dwlee townie to you.

[Datisi]

i can buy that i am feeling off this game

that does not change the fact that i think you often scumread me for nonsense that is firmly part of my towngame

i don't think scum attacks enchant when nobody is scumreading them or enchnat and it's obviously gonna be looked down upon bc hurr durr lhf

[Shuichi Saihara]

UNVOTE: so the day can't randomly end before i'm ready

[Shuichi Saihara]

i can buy that i am feeling off this game

that does not change the fact that i think you often scumread me for nonsense that is firmly part of my towngame

i don't think scum attacks enchant when nobody is scumreading them or enchnat and it's obviously gonna be looked down upon bc hurr durr lhf

My (minimal) experience with Dwlee makes me think they could do it to evoke this exact thought process.

[skitter30]

I think enchant is a significantly easier push than a lot of other people in this pl, no?

[Datisi]

I think enchant is a significantly easier push than a lot of other people in this pl, no?

yeah

so naturally scum would stay away from it

[Aristeia]

-__-

isn't that what you said about me pushing scorp when you thought I was mafia

[skitter30]

Or just be lazy and take the easy road ... ?