Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[Datisi]

yes

and i ended up being right that it was townie so what is the issue here

pedit: @ari

skitt, i don't think scum, in this playerlist, can afford to be lazy
if i'm being stupid and wifomed over then i guess but

[Aristeia]

but you actually thought I was mafia :<

so you mean you just think the behavior is more likely from town

and you pulled it to defend me because you thought it was a townie behavior from scum!me?

[Datisi]

i thought you were my scumbuddy going to die and i tried to find something you did that game that i could convincingly sell as townie (make note that i myself did not *think* it was townie then, i don't have that kind of cognition when i'm informed at all)

and this game i saw dwlee doing that thing and i thought it was townie

like it's a funny coincidence that this happen, but yes but actually no - i didn't think it was townie behaviour from scum!you, i thought it was behaviour that i could use to present you as town

does that make sense?

[skitter30]

Hard game is hard >.>

[Aristeia]

you can always sheep me on prism and yell at me if i'm wrong

[fireisredsir]

I don't love that basically the entire player list supports a skitter lim

i can't remember if anyone talked about this but i think it's bad for several reasons

one is that this is a 9p, its not like 2 scum are gonna have a large social influence on the game if one of them is being run up. the 1 partner could be one of the people who is like "yeah skitter kinda scummy" but not really pushing there, or it could be they already decided skitter is going down and are bussing, or it could be enchant who hasn't really given any reads

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

and vp's progression on skitter kinda makes me think that the team is just vp/skitt and they were like haha let's make an early push for pressure and towncred bc skitter is a strong player who can handle it and won't get limmed, oh oops, people actually agreed, ahhh, what now, find somewhere else to push

and skitter voting datisi when that seemed to be the likely push but then now switching to dwlee is just... kinda scummy

so i guess what im saying is

VOTE: skitter

let's bring this one back

[fireisredsir]

also hey what is UP im here now and ready to rumble

[skitter30]

My i'm partners with everyone this game

[Shuichi Saihara]

Shuichi attempts to get his head in the game. It's not very effective. Shuichi became confused!

I'm ascetic.

I want to give townpoints to this except i think scum-prism probably claims it too?

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

Idk if scum claims it right out the gate, i think town nearly always does (or at least town who's moderately experienced, whatever)

Mailman is the one where you send messages at night?

I'm not sure that's damning for prism tbh

I'm not sure 'satisfied' is the right word, more a combo of:
Their thouhht could be plausible and i'm feeling a bit worse abt vpb now

~

I dont really have thoughts on this ari/prism thing, i think they can plausibly be tvt

There's a lot of hedging here. 32 doesn't do anything besides try to look town -- as I write this, I'm thinking the entire concept of "I want to townread X, but I won't" is scummy, which is an original thing that's coming up for me right now; it looks like a town thought process but avoids committing to any read. 196 calls the conflict TvT without really calling it TvT ("I don't really have thoughts, except here are my thoughts"). "I'm not sure that damning" reads similarly, and "I don't think" would have served just as nicely in that slot meaning-wise.

I do not immediately recall what pushed VPB to go on here early, but if we were at post 200 now, I would go for it.

Vpb why are u wagoning me?

You're having too many SERIOUS reads based on meh things.

You realize i can *very* easily bounce this read back at you, right?

And also i think you're vastly overestimating the strength of my reads ar present

The phrasing of "you realize I can" substantially changes the tone here. It could be a point about hypocrisy, but instead it is a threat. Granted, I am unsure what scum would hope to gain by threatening a townie.

Welcome to Pedantry Hour, evidently. More to come.

More general comment, skitter doesn't seem interested in explaining her reads at this point, only stating them. I can chalk this up to her being in an airport though.

I have yes. I'm not convinced either of u are scum

I dont think ari enters the game claiming novice mailman and uses that to push you (/ me) - while scum-her might want to push us two, i dont think she thinks this would br a particularly convincing/winning path

I dont have a strong read on you, but i similarly dont think you beinf ascetic is inherently scum indicative

We can at least say you're probably not scum together, i suppose

And i think prism probably believes what she's pushing ari for rn

Vpb these posts are kinda sus ngl, especially since they form the bulk of your content; i have a hard time believing you believe that ...

My argument is that you previously went on a snipehunt chasing my partner before me in the Mini Normal. I don't think you even start on that path again and just focus squarely on me.

Your response to this was that you understood the connection. However you didn't spend that much time on it, and you weren't actually voting skitter. In comparison, you actually wound up forcing my "partner" through first in the other game as you were already there. This distinction is a mitigating response with further depth of context, not a complete rejection.

Perhaps you are in fact town and this distinction critical. Acting like there's obviously no real connection and it's irrational from my end to expect this makes me suspect it is in bad faith.

You're behaving differently than how town-prism thinks you would behave here - namely, she doesn't think you would start a push on a teamread involving here again after the events of that game
/ you would keep the events of last game in mind as you make fhis push here

You're not and she finds this suspicious

I dont know wjat the events of last game are so i really couldnt say if this is a reasonable expectation or not

These thoughts are all just... so basic and obvious. Scum might even not post them because they're so uninteresting and level zero/probably the first thing one would think of.

I know that Aris asked someone to help her understand what was happening but choosing to take the role of Chief Explainer is busywork scum can do to look helpful.

I swear if I were finding town aspects I would post them too... I just didn't find any so far. After I finish here I should do VPB, if he was going at any of the same stuff I am then I should rethink how I viewed his line of play at the start.

pedit: hi pedits!

[Shuichi Saihara]

@fire give my thunder back

ignore than my post was not actually that thunderous

[Shuichi Saihara]

Hard game is hard >.>

I already hate myself for asking this, but what is with the excess of <.< faces from you?

[skitter30]

Idk i like making them

More protracted response ro the above after work etc ^

[Shuichi Saihara]

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

Good point.

[fireisredsir]

@fire give my thunder back

ignore than my post was not actually that thunderous

actually excellent timing bc if you had posted it later i would have gotten paranoid that you were just following me around

but now i know it was genuine and so therefore i can just locktown you

[Datisi]

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

Good point.

i read this and suddenly i remember that there was a time where i thought the scumteam was skitter/vp and i'm like bro... bro what if...

[skitter30]

Ari i really want you to revisit dats tomorrow ^

[Datisi]

VOTE: skitter

what am i doing

[fireisredsir]

There's a lot of hedging here. 32 doesn't do anything besides try to look town -- as I write this, I'm thinking the entire concept of "I want to townread X, but I won't" is scummy, which is an original thing that's coming up for me right now; it looks like a town thought process but avoids committing to any read.

this reminds me that datisi did this multiple times in the last large when he was scum

[skitter30]

i can't remember if anyone talked about this but i think it's bad for several reasons

one is that this is a 9p, its not like 2 scum are gonna have a large social influence on the game if one of them is being run up. the 1 partner could be one of the people who is like "yeah skitter kinda scummy" but not really pushing there, or it could be they already decided skitter is going down and are bussing, or it could be enchant who hasn't really given any reads

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

and vp's progression on skitter kinda makes me think that the team is just vp/skitt and they were like haha let's make an early push for pressure and towncred bc skitter is a strong player who can handle it and won't get limmed, oh oops, people actually agreed, ahhh, what now, find somewhere else to push

and skitter voting datisi when that seemed to be the likely push but then now switching to dwlee is just... kinda scummy

- i think that logic (i.e. everyone scumreading one person is sus from a gamestate perspective) still holds in a micro (and i know it holds here)
- i'm literally only dropping dats cuz ari is insisting he's town. I pretty adamently think dats is scummy
- i still think vpb is scummy
- if i was partners with vpb i really dont think that's how the early game plays out in that:
-- i dont think he pushes me that hard out of the blue
-- i think if i'm pushing *him* i keep it going quite a while longer


Pedit i am p darn convinced that dats is scum here, and i would greatly appreciate it if y'all would listen to that tomorrow ^^^

And i'll just claim: vt

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

what am i doing

P confident this is scum-dats ^^^^

[Shuichi Saihara]

Oh dear, i'm doing this all wrong apparently >.<

Anyways can we talk about how scummy vpb is being and how stilted he sounds ^

Stilted?

You're asking the wrong questions, commenting on things that are kinda irrelevant, and your read on me is bad and way too strong for the reasoning you're giving, and you're reacting kinda off to me/people pointing that out

Pedit what do u mean by 'setup' in this context?

(Fun fact! My flight got delayed by a full 4 hours!)

I want to remember to see how true this was.

Pedit what do u mean by 'setup' in this context?

9p packed with good town.

Who are the people "pointing it out" besides you?

Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.

(Sorry bout your flight though, that sucks)

- fire/ceph have both said similar things as me, i dont believe you've responded to anything either has said

- i actually have made several posts on the main event of the game, including a long one literally on the bottom of the previous page explaining my thoughts.

Have your thoughts on ari/prism developed beyond this?

I am team Ari in this dispute.

I would actually argue that you've made less meaningul commentary than me on the main event of the game, so kinda galling that you come scumreading me for things that you're doing to a bigger extreme yourself

Now that fire has returned to the fore the idea that this post could be theater, I cannot unsee it. The fact that VP ignored those posts from fire/me to keep responding to skitter suggests an intentional focus. I had an issue with the strength of that skitter push at the time as it felt unnatural, and I've been fobbed off with some excuses by now but I'm no longer certain I believe them.

assuming the words "dats" and "like" are supposed to be switched around, (1) why do you choose this to say now? (2) why?

Usually in the beginning of games i try to say whatever comes to mind, however slight - doing so tends to generate content, which is nice early on

(You know this ...)

For your second question - i was questioning why my scumpings were 'bad and wrong', i'm not sure what you're objecting to

It is somewhat disturbing to me to consider that this has been skitter saying whatever comes to mind at this point. It does explain the super basic thoughts I tagged earlier, but if all her posts to this point have been pretty off the cuff and not holding anything back, why are they so insubstantial (e.g. "I don't like dats post"... ok why? Sounds like nothing is being withheld, so did the thoughts even exist?)

Suspending this for a moment because STD is on a work call with a person with a piercing voice and I can't hear myself think.

[skitter30]

There's a lot of hedging here. 32 doesn't do anything besides try to look town -- as I write this, I'm thinking the entire concept of "I want to townread X, but I won't" is scummy, which is an original thing that's coming up for me right now; it looks like a town thought process but avoids committing to any read. 196 calls the conflict TvT without really calling it TvT ("I don't really have thoughts, except here are my thoughts"). "I'm not sure that damning" reads similarly, and "I don't think" would have served just as nicely in that slot meaning-wise.

You can call it hedging sure, but that's just how i normally talk/type

[Shuichi Saihara]

-- i think if i'm pushing *him* i keep it going quite a while longer

It wasn't working, so I don't see why.

[skitter30]

The phrasing of "you realize I can" substantially changes the tone here. It could be a point about hypocrisy, but instead it is a threat. Granted, I am unsure what scum would hope to gain by threatening a townie.

That's me starting to become annoyed

[Shuichi Saihara]

If you are town and want me to give scum-dats the time of day as a concept, I need more.