Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[koopashell]

You have awakened my inner Bowser. The Beast, as I call it. I will not stop until Mala is in the ground. I have made my final decision of elimination for the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

He cannot claim why he townreads mala but is defending her as if she is locktown.

This is a misrep.

I've actively said multiple times I see the possibility of being pocketed by her, and you have acknowledged that multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor was fine with me up until now when I was insistent on voting Mala

this is also somewhat of a misrep, I had you on my list of 3 to vote earlier, so it's not like it's the first time I've gone against you.

You like to leave things out when it's convenient for you to do so.

So I will be reanalyzing your slot and make a town case or a scum case in a little bit.

[koopashell]

He cannot claim why he townreads mala but is defending her as if she is locktown.

This is a misrep.

I've actively said multiple times I see the possibility of being pocketed by her, and you have acknowledged that multiple times.

It is not a misrepresentation. You know you cannot in good faith state a townread on her so you have to have this hedgy position.

Regardless it is not up to me to convince you anymore. You are caught red handed trying to instigate in Mala's favor.

We have no more to discuss. You can cry "misrep" all you want, but I am only speaking truths.

[koopashell]

Flavor was fine with me up until now when I was insistent on voting Mala

this is also somewhat of a misrep, I had you on my list of 3 to vote earlier, so it's not like it's the first time I've gone against you.

You like to leave things out when it's convenient for you to do so.

So I will be reanalyzing your slot and make a town case or a scum case in a little bit.

"WELL ACKSHUALLY I FOSED YOU EARLIER" - is what you are saying.

Yes I am aware. You then said I was town after that.

But if what you want to claim is that you are hedging all your reads to what is convenient in the moment - by all means, feel free to wolfclaim this way.

[koopashell]

I think if FL is found to be intentionally instigating fights and retreating once its started - thats a likely hit by the way - be on the lookout. Although I do feel their pushes have been genuine and not with this intent however.

I do not forget.

[koopashell]

My apologies to everyone else for all the spam. I will be allowing space now for people to react and give their thoughts.

Yes FL - that means I will be not replying to anything you have to say now. I am freezing you now. You are getting the cold shoulder from this point forward until you can reasonably start explaining your viewpoint without shifty vocabulary. I want solidity - not fluidity. Good luck.

[Flavor Leaf]

you may be correct about Mala.

And I see your reasoning behind it, but you got some work to do over here to learn how to push through stuff and see the happenings around it if you are town here.

because you ignore things when it doesnt fit your line of thinking rather than trying to change it, and you go aggressive.

It is scum's job to get people to defend them, and had you brought up simply the line of the people I have pushed have all been on Mala, then yeah, that would have been a more eye opening reason.


But, like I have already stated, I have a tendency to town read people who are getting pushed for reasons I dont think are that AI.


You saw it when you pushed JV and Scorp.

It happened now with HEM, and if Mala is scum, then that just means it happened with Malakittens early, and it got set in my brain that she was town + her actively town reading me and lining up with some of my thoughts would have actively embraced that idea, and when that mud dried, it created a rather strong wall of a connection.

So yeah, that's how the pocket happened if she is scum.


You have already witnessed me multiple times this game defending multiple slots when they get steam.

You even were getting ready to push me because I was starting to defend HEM/not see them as scummy.

And you know what, the last time you got against me like this was when I pushed Roden.

So I definitely see a possibility of Roden/Koopa here.

[Flavor Leaf]

You then said I was town after that.

Not immediately.

And that is what you should have been doing from the beginning. you've focused way too much on me this game, and it feels like Koopa's been trying to guide me all game, almost trying to make me get the brunt of everything.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Koopa, you probably gotta work on your emotional game here, so much gets effected by your emotional state.

[Flavor Leaf]

For simple things, like who cares if people are reading things differently, it's mafia.

Stay stoic and play the game.

[MathBlade]

I am having a really shitty shift right now.

If you all can not go back and forth for pages (plural) and be succinct and not add onto the overwhelming amount to read that’d be awesome.

All that makes me do is want to ignore both of you and vote someone at pure random and restart RVS because this reads like a shit fest.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am having a really shitty shift right now.

If you all can not go back and forth for pages (plural) and be succinct and not add onto the overwhelming amount to read that’d be awesome.

All that makes me do is want to ignore both of you and vote someone at pure random and restart RVS because this reads like a shit fest.

yeah, I can't tell. They just started coming after me and ignoring half the things I was saying.

I think there's a chance they're trying to save Roden partner, but mostly I just think they're town who lets emotions take over them to an extreme level.



@Others - I might just be pocketed by Mala, so if I am, I'll need you to break me out of it. What is the actual scum case on Mala?

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL
please post your thoughts on the current gamestate, thank you.

alongside any updated reads and why they might have shifted etc.

I want something more solid please.

Especially on your progression on HEM.

I want it summarized in your own words right now though - is that too much? I'm very concerned you suddenly stopped pushing him after momentum started.

I want receipts with your accusations.

For example - you say "Roden seemed to piggyback onto NK15's posting"

I want you to cite the exact posts where you see this.


If you fail to do this - I will be voting you if I go through Roden's posts myself and find this absent.

I changed my mind on HEM. I am vetoing both Roden AND HEM today.

I don't want to vote you out - I want to vote Mala out and when they flip wolf we can vote you out for very overtly defending them.

If mala flips town, you can be town.

But as of right now - Mala is a 2 for 1 deal for me. Ya dig?

Mala's been under the radar this whole game and you still are trying to drag her along as if she has been towny enough to defend.

Question to all: Who here townreads Malakittens? If so, why?

Just I want I want I want "right now".


then I give it to them, and they dont like the answer, so they go even more emotional.

Smoke some weed. we can always chill and get the answer in a bit.

[MathBlade]

I don’t have a read on Mala.

As I said earlier she’s not really posting and has been going through things.
There isn’t enough to read her either way.

I think if she’s scum it’s right because lucky and if she’s town then it’s a wagon of convenience.

[Flavor Leaf]

All that makes me do is want to ignore both of you and vote someone at pure random and restart RVS because this reads like a shit fest.

it's not, though. A lot of times in those back and forth 1v1 situations, there's actually a lot to read into.

It's why it's such a good scum strategy to hide in, which was one of my initial pushes on HEM. I don't think that's what Koopa was doing, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Malakittens [3]: humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

I just don't trust this wagon at all.

I believe the others that have expressed interest that way are NK15, Koopa, and maybe JV? but yeah. This is actually the majority of the reason my town read started, and now looking into the push by Koopa saying I've push everyone who pushed Mala, yeah, of course I did.

The reason I started town reading Mala was because she was under fire, and I actively stated I thought there was scum on the Mala wagon at the beginning of the game.

That and I've lined up with Mala with read pings, and she town read me, i town read her made me feel like we were more on the same page.

Yes, I can see it's possible I got pocketed, but I really don't think that's what's happening.

I believe there was scum on the early Mala wagon, I believe there is scum there now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am aware I have a tendency to defend people who are going under fire.

I almost treat it like I'm a door, and if you can mold the key that fits my keyhole where I am happy to open up to an actual good reason for one being scum, I am happy to do so.


This hasn't happened with Mala for me, and I think they're getting pushed for lack of content, and think Koopa has a tendency to push for people who are lacking content based on their "scum naturally want to lurk". sure, but that doesn't mean town doesn't lurk either. There probably is scum in the less active slots, but I do not think it's Mala.


They pushed JV for the same reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think if she’s scum it’s right because lucky and if she’s town then it’s a wagon of convenience.

This is exactly how I see it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hi FL

im actually okay with letting Mala's wagon stall for a while before she returns

my strongest point against Mala was that I dont see any town motivation for fakeclaiming mason, and she has been a nonpresence in this game except for that one move.
i also dont trust koopa anymore. im getting visions of him being the traitor crumbing earlier and that's why his positioning has been constantly shifting.
i also trust these emotional outbursts less and less. they're beginning to look incongruent to how i imagine someone would normally react... to a game of mafia...
your exchange was not even heated.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am solidly town reading Koopa I would say.

After rereading the exchange, it feels like a townie acting out because they aren't getting what they want (fully developed read summary + agreement in scumread) + lack of patience.

It's Day 1. Gotta be patient. There isn't much to go on with Mala. My 2 reasons are more than enough for me to warrant my town read on the slot. Yes, I am aware I could be wrong, and getting pocketed, but the scum case isn't strong enough for me to believe so just yet, and it's okay to be wrong/pocketed on Day 1, I'd rather risk being wrong on a slot I town read and have to reanalyze when the game has more information than to possibly misfade Mala for the chance she flips scum.

My 2 reasons:
Mala and I have been lining up, and I felt that we genuinely felt the other was town early.
The Mala wagon itself isn't a wagon I am comfortable voting alongside with, and I believe that shows in my reads.


In addition, I also have the tendency to defend people who are getting wagon'd. Even when I have defended scum in those scenarios, a lot of times, I end up seeing the correct path along the way because I defended them, and that didn't happen here.


So the combination of those things.

I specifically feel that the back and forth exchange was Koopa just being emotional town, and I essentially brick walled him, and they got upset because they felt like I was refusing to give more information to them when in actuality, there just isn't more, and they got mad that I wasn't agreeing with them, so I would appreciate it not being ignored because it is just seen as a "back and forth" or a "shitfest" because I think that is also not a good stance.

I've effectively summarized exchanged in this and the breaking down analytically of it.

[koopashell]

I think if she’s scum it’s right because lucky and if she’s town then it’s a wagon of convenience.

This is exactly how I see it.

So you all see - FL claims this. This is their view. But - THIS IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION WITH TAKES LIKE THIS :

Malakittens [3]: humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

I just don't trust this wagon at all.

I believe the others that have expressed interest that way are NK15, Koopa, and maybe JV? but yeah. This is actually the majority of the reason my town read started, and now looking into the push by Koopa saying I've push everyone who pushed Mala, yeah, of course I did.

The reason I started town reading Mala was because she was under fire, and I actively stated I thought there was scum on the Mala wagon at the beginning of the game.

That and I've lined up with Mala with read pings, and she town read me, i town read her made me feel like we were more on the same page.

Yes, I can see it's possible I got pocketed, but I really don't think that's what's happening.

I believe there was scum on the early Mala wagon, I believe there is scum there now.

There is hedging language here - but FL is not interested in solving Mala's alignment or how people are treating Mala slot - he just wants an excuse to push people who pushed Mala.

"I believe there is scum" but how is he so sure? I thought he was unsure of Mala's alignment? It is not normal to think of wagons this way - this is just a convenient excuse to deflect.

Notice FL never really considers worlds related to how the players pushed Mala - only using the fact that the votes were there to push them. This is a push of convenience. He will not allow people to criticize it because it means he has to abandon these pushes.

And this is consistent behavior throughout this Day 1
FL has spewed Mala as a wolf as she is his wolf partner - If you want to see for yourself, simply read through FL and see the points at which he has made pushes.

This is the one thing I have been most sure of this whole day phase.

FL will now be attempting to discredit my point. He will likely not try to push to solve Mala. He will try to abuse semantics to shut my points down. Do not listen to him with these counter points.



To Mathblade : If they are not a townread - they are a valid wagon. Instead of trying to shut down a wagon there you can perhaps wait and see how Mala actually plays around the push.

[koopashell]

hi FL

im actually okay with letting Mala's wagon stall for a while before she returns

my strongest point against Mala was that I dont see any town motivation for fakeclaiming mason, and she has been a nonpresence in this game except for that one move.
i also dont trust koopa anymore. im getting visions of him being the traitor crumbing earlier and that's why his positioning has been constantly shifting.
i also trust these emotional outbursts less and less. they're beginning to look incongruent to how i imagine someone would normally react... to a game of mafia...
your exchange was not even heated.

Remember I am not you. Do not project your idea of what a townie needs to do one me.
I am emotional. In fact it is +Town for me to express these emotions.

Read what I had to say - It is insulting you boil down what I said as just an "emotional outburst".

I laid out a decisive case on how FL has been treating the Mala slot. Perhaps you should try reading what I said instead of pretending you did.

[koopashell]

Ask yourself: what reason do I have to direct the elimination towards Mala when it was going nowhere near me as long as I kept quiet?
Who are my partners in that case?

Why do I, as a traitor - claim a PR on day 1 - a bait for wolves to shoot me? Read my logic - not my emotions.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also started the malakittens wagon just to test if you guys truly are the mason. if koopa didn't sheep, that means he created a smokescreen for both of you and you guys are actual masons. (so he can eat the NK.) if koopa didn't sheep, im immediately off you two right there and then. but that didn't happen. i am now beginning to feel like he actually intended to play like that at first, have that plausible deniability, then exploited the actuality that no mason counterclaimed by solidifying himself as town leader.

so yeah. these are just assumptions. but it's a good background for when i start re-reading.