Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

hi FL

im actually okay with letting Mala's wagon stall for a while before she returns

my strongest point against Mala was that I dont see any town motivation for fakeclaiming mason, and she has been a nonpresence in this game except for that one move.
i also dont trust koopa anymore. im getting visions of him being the traitor crumbing earlier and that's why his positioning has been constantly shifting.
i also trust these emotional outbursts less and less. they're beginning to look incongruent to how i imagine someone would normally react... to a game of mafia...
your exchange was not even heated.

You've never fake claimed masons with someone? Pretty common. I agree with the nonpresence.

I think Koopa was just emotional town who got annoyed when they didnt get what they wanted.

For Koopa to be scum they would have a very strong scum game, imo, to even attempt to play the way they did, which I'm not opposed to looking at.

It is obvious Koopa does think that they are a very strong player, so it could be like that episode of Brooklyn 99 where the guy gets caught because of own ego.


One thing that helps me not see it as overly scummy is because, and no offense to the site as a whole, I've seen a lot of people come over from Mafia Universe and have similar issues, especially in the way that they see certain things i.e. "If Mala is scum FL is scum!" without caring/looking deeper.


I also didnt like the PR crumbing into the PR Claim to empower the 1v1, but that was another emotional one.


So I see why you think the emotional side of things could be faked. It could also be real scum frustration, I guess. Idk, I'm leaning town there for now, but I thought the exact same thing you did, so that's a good sign for my read on you.

I am posting SO much, but that interaction lead me to a lot of good analysis.

It's also been a long time since I've played Mafia (only 1 completed game in the past like year), so I'm having just a lot of fun being around and getting back into detective mode.

[koopashell]

It is astounding that people think that letting under the radar slots slide by is ok and people will defend them for 0 reason, and instead go for the person who is trying to bring attention to them.

Love with your heart - use your head for everything else.

[koopashell]

There are no masons.

[humaneatingmonkey]

as a traitor

you crumbed so maybe not

[humaneatingmonkey]

You've never fake claimed masons with someone?

no and i think fakeclaiming is always bad play. never saw it go well for town.

[koopashell]

as a traitor

you crumbed so maybe not

OK. Since I want you all to stop talking about my slot like this because I'm blatant town - I'm a gunsmith.

That is why: I believe traitors are possible.

That is why: I think there are no masons in this setup

[koopashell]

Your move, HEM.

[koopashell]

I am not ever the wagon here and I am getting the elimination I want.

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry koopa, but emotions are basically my toolkit in the game of mafia and im just sussing out that yours have a heck of a trajectory.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i agree that you shouldn't be D1's elim

[koopashell]

Ok again - I am NOT YOU. Stop projecting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

as a traitor

you crumbed so maybe not

OK. Since I want you all to stop talking about my slot like this because I'm blatant town - I'm a gunsmith.

That is why: I believe traitors are possible.

That is why: I think there are no masons in this setup

you are so annoying.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i make one comment against you and you full claim

[koopashell]

I am also carrying the game right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i am more reasonable than you think. a simple conversation would have sufficed especially if you are town.
now you're probably the night kill.

[koopashell]

Guess Scorpious' isn't as villagery though

crumb in this post btw . before someone wants to come at me because I said I crumbed it.

[koopashell]

I was the likely nightkill anyways.

[MathBlade]

Guess Scorpious' isn't as villagery though

crumb in this post btw . before someone wants to come at me because I said I crumbed it.

Can you explain like I am 5 how this is a gunsmith crumb?

[koopashell]

Maybe you should have actually read my case on Mala/FL being paired before you started coming at me vaguely accusing me of only doing emotional outbursts. There is plenty of logic if you care to read.

[koopashell]

Guess Scorpious' isn't as villagery though

crumb in this post btw . before someone wants to come at me because I said I crumbed it.

Can you explain like I am 5 how this is a gunsmith crumb?

first letter of the first 2 words.

The sentence itself is fairly forced.

Are you trying to look for a reason to push me?

[koopashell]

Spiritual vote on Malakittens

consider that i have two "votes". Malakittens and koopashell.

Mala villagery tho, why do you want to vote only villagers mr monkey?

villagey how?

Flavor Leaf
Most Cunning Manipulator
Don Corleone
A guy smoking a cigarette rolling his eye on you
Location: San Francisco

Yep. I can trust this guy.

VOTE: Malakittens

koopa said they'll give me scum by page 10, so I'll wait until then

Every

Spiritual vote on Malakittens

Malashell

I don't like being shipped with random ppl i don't know.

sorrynotsorry.

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

I have played with JV twice so far; both times I have been scum. So there's the potential that he might vote me right off the bat which is fair considering that I been scum twice so far now against him.

This feels very self conscious.

VOTE: Malakittens

I don't see the correlation between self consciousness and wolfiness, unless you are saying Mala is normally *not* self conscious as villager.
Is that something you have seen success with using to read people on this site, Roden?

Idk who's alt you are but this post is skeeving me out for some reason

Last time I played with Mala, she rolled scum, and her day play felt very self conscious there as well, with a pinch of "I don't do X as scum"

I am an alt, in the sense I am not using the name normally associated with my main identity, but I am a stranger to this website.

Re:Mala; Could you say the same is absent from their town meta as well, because you have only opened up the possibility of this being their wolfgame based on this minor tell, but it is only useful if it is a polarized tell.

Last town game she played was very aggressive and solvey. I wouldn't call it night and day, but her playstyle differences are noticeable in hindsight.

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell IMHO.
I don't know how koopa "reads from the hip" on pages 1-2 and expects to be accurate in any way.

It's not, but apparently people think it's cool in order to use it as a scum tell, nor is being aggressive or defensive

but then when you go "its a rl thing"

thats frowned upon too

so lets move the topic along

if we dont want to move this topic along then just lim me now and get it over with

Why are you going full AtE and asking to die on page 4??

because i'm having flashbacks from when greeting & I went head to head and then got warned by the site mods

I'm just really not in the mood for it again

You were scum there though...?

Single

Catching up a bit…

Koopa's gonna be hard to read

Don’t think so.

I have played with JV twice so far; both times I have been scum. So there's the potential that he might vote me right off the bat which is fair considering that I been scum twice so far now against him.

Why does that matter? So what if he votes you? Do you always do that for people you’ve played with?

You know HEM made a good point when he said it sounded like you were addressing JV almost like you knew he was already town and didn’t want the smoke.

I’ve never played with you (that I can remember) but I would assume town!you maybe wouldn’t care that much.

tbh if i was self conscious i prob wouldnt have posted my first post
just saying

And this is a contradiction.

73 and 74 ping me. Like the questions are kinda meh. Like almost like once they answer then what? They don’t seem like sorting questions. Feels like busywork.

I’m gonna place 77 82 and 83 in the townbin pile for now.

Geez 108 is screaming at me dude.

VOTE: koopa

Ftr, I’m kinda in between JV and Roden when it comes to Mala. Like I feel the towny frustration with the posts, but can also see how the self consciousness can be attributed to a scum!mala.

Person

VOTE: Mala

I don't want to vote you out - I want to vote Mala out and when they flip wolf we can vote you out for very overtly defending them.

If mala flips town, you can be town.

But as of right now - Mala is a 2 for 1 deal for me. Ya dig?

Mala's been under the radar this whole game and you still are trying to drag her along as if she has been towny enough to defend.

Question to all: Who here townreads Malakittens? If so, why?

Who has pushed mala has been instigated to be wagoned by Flavor at some point - Italiano not so much because they dropped the scumread.


HEM, Roden, Myself.

This is Flavor's MO this whole dayphase.

He cannot state an actual read on Mala and yet everyone who dares go against mala mysteriously starts getting pushed by Flavor Leaf - it is not genuine.

Flavor was fine with me up until now when I was insistent on voting Mala, a slot he insists is null to him but now wants to instigate Mathblade into pushing me.

Your tricks do not work on players like me. I will throw back 5x the WIM because I am town.

And now you're trying to turn Mathblade against me, huh?

Misrep ^

What am I misrepresenting?

Pray tell - please tell me the intention of you going to mathblade with that - are you trying to get him to townread me here?

You are trying your utmost to discredit ANYONE going near Mala without a real reason to townread Mala.

Yeah, if her and I were S/S, I'd be able to defend her much easier, I bet.

I already stated that if she is scum, I'm pocketed. Which you refuse to acknowledge.

I'm very aware that I could be pocketed by her, which I have stated multiple times, meaning that I see a world where she is scum.

But the sheer effect of a pocket is so the player getting pocketed makes it so they trust the player, and that's just where we're at, at this point.

Flavor HAS done very well defending Mala - trying to downplay how much damage to the gamestate he has done to distract from a Mala wagon.

He cannot claim why he townreads mala but is defending her as if she is locktown.

This is self contradicting in an extremely wolfy way.

He cannot claim why he townreads mala but is defending her as if she is locktown.

This is a misrep.

I've actively said multiple times I see the possibility of being pocketed by her, and you have acknowledged that multiple times.

It is not a misrepresentation. You know you cannot in good faith state a townread on her so you have to have this hedgy position.

Regardless it is not up to me to convince you anymore. You are caught red handed trying to instigate in Mala's favor.

We have no more to discuss. You can cry "misrep" all you want, but I am only speaking truths.

Flavor was fine with me up until now when I was insistent on voting Mala

this is also somewhat of a misrep, I had you on my list of 3 to vote earlier, so it's not like it's the first time I've gone against you.

You like to leave things out when it's convenient for you to do so.

So I will be reanalyzing your slot and make a town case or a scum case in a little bit.

"WELL ACKSHUALLY I FOSED YOU EARLIER" - is what you are saying.

Yes I am aware. You then said I was town after that.

But if what you want to claim is that you are hedging all your reads to what is convenient in the moment - by all means, feel free to wolfclaim this way.

I think if she’s scum it’s right because lucky and if she’s town then it’s a wagon of convenience.

This is exactly how I see it.

So you all see - FL claims this. This is their view. But - THIS IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION WITH TAKES LIKE THIS :

Malakittens [3]: humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

I just don't trust this wagon at all.

I believe the others that have expressed interest that way are NK15, Koopa, and maybe JV? but yeah. This is actually the majority of the reason my town read started, and now looking into the push by Koopa saying I've push everyone who pushed Mala, yeah, of course I did.

The reason I started town reading Mala was because she was under fire, and I actively stated I thought there was scum on the Mala wagon at the beginning of the game.

That and I've lined up with Mala with read pings, and she town read me, i town read her made me feel like we were more on the same page.

Yes, I can see it's possible I got pocketed, but I really don't think that's what's happening.

I believe there was scum on the early Mala wagon, I believe there is scum there now.

There is hedging language here - but FL is not interested in solving Mala's alignment or how people are treating Mala slot - he just wants an excuse to push people who pushed Mala.

"I believe there is scum" but how is he so sure? I thought he was unsure of Mala's alignment? It is not normal to think of wagons this way - this is just a convenient excuse to deflect.

Notice FL never really considers worlds related to how the players pushed Mala - only using the fact that the votes were there to push them. This is a push of convenience. He will not allow people to criticize it because it means he has to abandon these pushes.

And this is consistent behavior throughout this Day 1
FL has spewed Mala as a wolf as she is his wolf partner - If you want to see for yourself, simply read through FL and see the points at which he has made pushes.

This is the one thing I have been most sure of this whole day phase.

FL will now be attempting to discredit my point. He will likely not try to push to solve Mala. He will try to abuse semantics to shut my points down. Do not listen to him with these counter points.



To Mathblade : If they are not a townread - they are a valid wagon. Instead of trying to shut down a wagon there you can perhaps wait and see how Mala actually plays around the push.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe you should have actually read my case on Mala/FL being paired before you started coming at me vaguely accusing me of only doing emotional outbursts. There is plenty of logic if you care to read.

look man

next time you're in that position, strategize — don't spite
hold onto your cards. people can pick up subtle things if you nudge them enough

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's true that you were never D1's lim anyway

[MathBlade]

Guess Scorpious' isn't as villagery though

crumb in this post btw . before someone wants to come at me because I said I crumbed it.

Can you explain like I am 5 how this is a gunsmith crumb?

first letter of the first 2 words.

The sentence itself is fairly forced.

Are you trying to look for a reason to push me?

No I am evaluating what you’re saying. Since it didn’t jump out at me I asked.

[koopashell]

TL;DR: FL's pushes are mainly against people who are going against Mala -> While FL cannot solidly claim a read on mala yet these pushes seem to be driven by those actions.

Take the most recent example- as soon as I dropped a vote on Mala- FL started to once again "contemplate" a world where I am a wolf.

I found 2 wolves.

Perhaps the only 2 wolves we need to kill, even. It is a done wrap.


If FL claims some fancy PR shit that ties him to Mala - I will be ignoring it. We flip Mala and then he can be clear if he wants if it is true.