Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[VP Baltar]

At some point I should stop trolling but of any potential townflips mine is probably the least disastrous, scumflip would be ace though

Especially hate this

[Prism]

Either of those flipping town is straight speedrunning it straight to ELO and what makes Aristeia's reaction so funny is not just the hilarity of shared clownship, but that I literally have a single townread on me, everyone else scumleans me or is fencesitting and I am practically an inevitable flip.

[fireisredsir]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

[Dwlee99]

i would prefer there not be a lim on prism, enchant, ari, shuichi. could be scum in there, but i don't want it today. probably would lean away from skitter at this point. really would like vp and i think it's doable. not sure on dwlee and datisi.

You can't just be like "Yea this group of four could have scum but let's not lim there" in a 9p with 2 scum

[Aristeia]

Either of those flipping town is straight speedrunning it straight to ELO and what makes Aristeia's reaction so funny is not just the hilarity of shared clownship, but that I literally have a single townread on me, everyone else scumleans me or is fencesitting and I am practically an inevitable flip.

I've won games without a single townread before

playing scum is not about being townread

[fireisredsir]

i would prefer there not be a lim on prism, enchant, ari, shuichi. could be scum in there, but i don't want it today. probably would lean away from skitter at this point. really would like vp and i think it's doable. not sure on dwlee and datisi.

You can't just be like "Yea this group of four could have scum but let's not lim there" in a 9p with 2 scum

by that i just meant that im not 100% townlocking them

[Prism]

I don't disagree (@Ari) but ~time reveals all~

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

[Prism]

i would prefer there not be a lim on prism, enchant, ari, shuichi. could be scum in there, but i don't want it today. probably would lean away from skitter at this point. really would like vp and i think it's doable. not sure on dwlee and datisi.

You can't just be like "Yea this group of four could have scum but let's not lim there" in a 9p with 2 scum

The pool is literally the people I am willing to eliminate, where 2 are better options IMO than the other 2.

[fireisredsir]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

are we partners

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

are we partners

Judging by your freakout, probably.

Lol, I love that you are all in on this being a good point.

[fireisredsir]

i just thought it was funny that you danced around saying it in like 5 different posts but never did

[fireisredsir]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

[Enchant]

Idk if Prism!Scum antagonises me in voting

[VP Baltar]

i just thought it was funny that you danced around saying it in like 5 different posts but never did

Yeah, this invented issue by you is clearly a salient point that points to scum me.

[VP Baltar]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

It took you 46 pages to vote me when I am the main person you have focused on all day.

[fireisredsir]

its also funny cause vp thinks that i think i have some big gotcha or something, but i don't. it really was just a passing thought and he's the one who had made it into a big deal by squirming around it and acting weird and being afraid to actually put words to the things that he's implying

[Prism]

Fuck it sure

VOTE: Baltar

[fireisredsir]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

It took you 46 pages to vote me when I am the main person you have focused on all day.

did you miss where i was sus of dwlee and skitter more for most of the day and also where i didn't really want to push wagons while i wasn't around to see how people respond to them

[Prism]

1413 is kiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda free but at this point I'm fine going between Baltar/me

Somewhere Aristeia runs in from the street screaming "THEY WANT YOU TO GO OUTSIDE IT'S A JEDI MIND TRICK"

[Prism]

Idk if Prism!Scum antagonises me in voting

I still cannot for the life of me understand why you would willingly invite votes and getting run up to E-1 as a doctor-like role.

Maybe I never will.

[VP Baltar]

I'm fine going between Baltar/me

same

[VP Baltar]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

It took you 46 pages to vote me when I am the main person you have focused on all day.

did you miss where i was sus of dwlee and skitter more for most of the day and also where i didn't really want to push wagons while i wasn't around to see how people respond to them

you talk about me as much or more than those two, yet you voted both of them and slinked around me for 46 pages like a jackal scoping a watering hole until I started pushing on you. People can read your ISO and ctrl+f "VP" "Dwlee" "Skitter"

[Shuichi Saihara]

Not gonna pull these posts, but the start of the game fire is just kind of there not really doing anything for a while.

Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.

I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said

its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead

Not planning to relitigate this whole Dwlee thing, but I think this shows layered thought.

vp this seems like a weird thing to pick on ngl

Nah. You catch scum D1 in a game like this by looking for people acting awkward. Especially in a game with lots of killers like this, scum will have a hard time finding a rhythm immediately. They will misread intentions and try to act natural. There is a whole artiface to D1 as scum where you need to get in the flow.

well if thats the case, then i think you're the one who feels the most awkward and having a hard time finding a rhythm

I don't really enjoy mindmelding as a tell but I was thinking the same thing. I wonder whether this "awkward" theme has made it to VP's present.

Since I already got to the end of reading fire's iso and landed on probably town, and thinking about what people have said about me being uncharitable towards skitter, I wonder whether this exercise is just exposing gut-reads I wasn't ready to admit I had. But uh, please enjoy the Shuichi-flavored candy coating I've provided for them, nonetheless.

that reminds me, i think dwlee was talking about a datisi/vp team?

surely in that case datisi is excited and stays up past his bedtime to knock out some theatre in the early thread first

same goes for datisi/ari probably

I didn't especially agree with this, but it's thoughtful.

Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?

it seems to me like a lot of closed setups have at least one role that on some level is "the mods messing with players who try to setup spec"

You have examples that come to mind for you?

dwlee was a backup vig in a game with no vig

idk i feel like it happens a lot, mods don't like people being able to solve their setups so they mess with expectations

This is an avenue that hasn't been brought up a lot, but it seems to me like scum with not-prism should be happy to hop on this mech thing. Did anyone really do that? One could argue skitter did the opposite to look town, but she's retread the ground enough times that I think she probably just earnestly does not believe the mech stuff is a slam dunk even if she's scum.

my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear

I was surprised to see anyone townreading me highly at this point. I would be a pretty good choice for a pocket target for a scum fire. I am pocketable and all the more so by his archetype of player. Remind me to bring up something else around this point later.

I can acknowledge that there might be elements of personality reading setting me askew this game. Trying to maintain a healthy sphere of paranoia.

I don't love that basically the entire player list supports a skitter lim

i can't remember if anyone talked about this but i think it's bad for several reasons

one is that this is a 9p, its not like 2 scum are gonna have a large social influence on the game if one of them is being run up. the 1 partner could be one of the people who is like "yeah skitter kinda scummy" but not really pushing there, or it could be they already decided skitter is going down and are bussing, or it could be enchant who hasn't really given any reads

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

and vp's progression on skitter kinda makes me think that the team is just vp/skitt and they were like haha let's make an early push for pressure and towncred bc skitter is a strong player who can handle it and won't get limmed, oh oops, people actually agreed, ahhh, what now, find somewhere else to push

and skitter voting datisi when that seemed to be the likely push but then now switching to dwlee is just... kinda scummy

so i guess what im saying is

VOTE: skitter

let's bring this one back

He said it first, but I do like that his attention happened to turn to skitter at roughly the same time I started thinking about her and I don't think anything clearly prompted that. It could be a coincidence but yeah.

I really agree with the point that 2 scum can only do so much to influence a game state, as well. I think this is something I see people worrying about an unreasonable amount in general, but it's especially true here, and since there are only 2, their awareness of moving in lockstep is likely to be higher.

i also don't really think that the reasons you are casing dats are very scummy things in this specific game, skitter. like, weak reads, self-doubt, even the existential dread. im feeling most of those things as well so i don't really see it as that scummy. and its not like he's going over the top in playing it up, if he were i could totally see how that's scummy behavior, but i don't feel an overabundance of woe is me.

i think it would be believable that he would imitate those vibes as scum, but it's kind of a risky play unless he really sells it hard and i don't think he is, so the alternative would be to just project more confidence. there's been times when he has (someone said "bluster-y"?) but its always felt pretty thin and transparent, and his honest thoughts shine through pretty easily and quickly. compare to when he pushed on fua in the large, that felt blustery but he went like all in on it and really played it up

so the being kind of in the middle here just reads more as honest to me but trying at times to be good strong town player even when he doesn't fully believe in his own reads

my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear

Did you explain your shuichi townread?

Link is fine if so

no idea how much ive explained it if at all. but its mostly that he's been thinking good thoughts imo and mostly things i agree with, and when i went through looking for potentially scummy positioning plays and found some from almost everyone, him and ari were the two (and enchant, I think, but that hardly counts) that i didn't find anything for. there were some moments of paranoia (im getting flashbacks to when me+DV were very similar reads in the recent large and then after a while i got paranoid of that but eventually came back around), but then also right when i showed up with a skitter vote he was doing a dive on skitter and found her scummy, and we posted at like the same time

so the multiple instances of being on the same track makes me think town, and nothing makes me think scum. he's also not making any real active attempts to pocket me, mostly keeping his distance, the directional similarity feels pretty natural. again, similar vibes to the situation with DV, who did end up being town

I loosely followed the game fire is talking about and so can see this thought process as organic.

Where did I say that's off the table?

you didn't (and that's not what I said), but i didn't see you explicitly bring it up either, and i think that would have been your natural town response to my 1214 if your stated reads are honest

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

To build on this a little.

Refer back to 640 (quoted above) with me for a moment. Baltar dug up post 133, which to me, looks like a post he could have made if he was thinking about fire & Prism as a team. I lost the thread of what he's been saying more recently for a minute and was prepared to come say "hey, look, a golden thread through VP's trajectory," but that's in fact the opposite of what he's saying now. (I know this part just makes me sound stupid but I'm leaving it in)

Sure, trying to solve the game all at once isn't every player's style (and it isn't mine either) but if you allegedly think you have all the scum in a 3 player big net idk it feels like it would make sense to think about pairing them to me. 1214 seemed to me equivalent to fire shouting "I'm not comfortable talking about prism!" which would definitely get my attention if I suspected both him and prism.

And as fire said, if fire is pocketing me that implies I'm town (even though baltar thinks i'm scum ??) which should leave him only one solve.

--

If I were to make a point against fire, I might say that he has simply not done that much. Outside of some isolated more effortful posts, VP does have a point about just wanting to townread players who are chill-vibing. ANd that's absolutely something I'm susceptible to.

[fireisredsir]

you talk about me as much or more than those two, yet you voted both of them and slinked around me for 46 pages like a jackal scoping a watering hole until I started pushing on you. People can read your ISO and ctrl+f "VP" "Dwlee" "Skitter"

yes indeed my vote on you in post 1128 was a reaction to you starting your push on me in 675, you've solved it