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[MathBlade]

VOTE: NK15

Does anyone TR NK15? If so why?

I have seen a lot of wanting NK15 but not actually voting NK15 which is a sign of a wagon on scum.

How do you look at the latest string of posts from him and think hes wolfy

Because he’s pushing on Gamma/FL slot which is obvTown imho. You really seem to be in a conf bias tunnel.

Yes you’ve been working a lot but it’s more screaming and shouting down those who don’t agree.

I townread everyone on the wagon. Works for me.

And FL is obvtown for which reasons, MathBlade?

Knowing him for about 5 years and his different meta.
Gamma actually posted. He lurks a lot as scum.

The last one is definitively not obvtown material, it's just one string of posts.
About FL meta... what's different, here, from fl's scum meta?

Less controlly more listeny

I am not good at explaining soft things like that.

But I would be shocked if FL/Gamma was scum.

And for Gamma it really is. His post speed is night and day for different alignments.

[koopashell]

Not sure why the bar for proving my reads is so high while everyone else gets to say gut and get away with it.

[MathBlade]

Really seeing some creative takes really intent to discredit the eork I've put into the gamr

Have you considered that not everyone is solely making reads based on your gameplay or your opinions, and that acknowledging this is probably of relative importance to discovering who is mafia? We disagree, that's fine, you are entitled to convince me but I think there's a decent chance NK15 is mafia, their progression of reads on HEM was incredibly suspect and very opportunistic.

This. 100% this.

I think NK15/HEM contains at least one scum so I don’t have to have MY wagon to hit a scum.

If NK15 flips town then we’ve got scum in the hyperposters and gives me a clue reads are wrong.
If NK15 flips scum then likely hyperposters are all town and just need help talking.

So while it’s not my hero wagon I think it’s the best wagon for finding scum and I TR the participants so I think this is good.

Towncase FL.

See prior post.
See many other users that TR FL.
No one scumreads FL except you and NK15 who may be scum propping you up.
There’s no value in back and forth on FL when you refuse to answer my question on why you townread NK15.

You seem to think you can just demand everyone to do your bidding.

That’s not how any of this works.

[koopashell]

FL has literally made so many controlling moves. What are you on about?
He flip flopped and was unsure how to treat me - whether to pocket or to shade.
Not being able to explain reads is townier than people posting full analysis?
Incredible.

[koopashell]

You must miseliminate many townies in your games with that logic.

[MathBlade]

Not sure why the bar for proving my reads is so high while everyone else gets to say gut and get away with it.

Because to be blunt:
You’ve screamed and demanded your way 2-3 times
Your explanation amounts to little more than gibberish each time
The person eventually or already had towntold
This wagon seems on a majority townread person

You refuse to even discuss the topread wagon
Yes you claimed PR but that is only a claim
It doesn’t make you king

[MathBlade]

Not sure why the bar for proving my reads is so high while everyone else gets to say gut and get away with it.

Because to be blunt:
You’ve screamed and demanded your way 2-3 times
Your explanation amounts to little more than gibberish each time
The person eventually or already had towntold
This wagon seems on a majority townread person

You refuse to even discuss the topread wagon
Yes you claimed PR but that is only a claim
It doesn’t make you king

This wagon = Your wagon on FL.

[koopashell]

I don't believe you've actually given any thought to the way FL treated Roden. And everyone who townreads them has lacked the same information of seeing Roden treatment.

[MathBlade]

You must miseliminate many townies in your games with that logic.

Occasionally yes that does happen, but when it does happen it’s helpful because of where the game goes later.

I don’t claim nor ever expect to be perfect.

What I do claim is I will always do what I think is best for town and right now I think that’s NK15.

[MathBlade]

I don't believe you've actually given any thought to the way FL treated Roden. And everyone who townreads them has lacked the same information of seeing Roden treatment.

I did. I reread your “slip” explanation post twice.

A good majority of the game has posted since then as well.

I do not think nor believe this is a slip of any sort and more than likely neither does the rest of the game.

You need to talk with versus demand things.

This back and forth is unhealthy and I gotta get ready for work.

[MalcolmTucker]

If I were to launch an actual towncase on FL/Gamma:

I don't think Flavor's play earlier on was particularly beneficial for mafia or particularly useful as a strategy. Their decision to jump in on those who went on the Mala bandwagon felt like it was a good way to open up the game and find potentially opportunistic mafia who liked the idea of an early wagon on what was a relatively flimsy basis. NK15, for example, was branding Mala "obvious" but then pulled back on the basis of having missed one post.

Flavor's play, again, feels like it very much split the game into two camps in a way that will be useful for gaining valuable info further down the line. There are lots of mafia team combos we now know aren't viable because of that.

I feel like the counterwagon on Flavor only really developed after we'd let them take control of the game, a point I made at the time. Why the delay? To a degree it felt coordinated for me.

To an extent at points I feel like Koopa/HEM (if the latter is indeed town) have wanted Flavor to be mafia because they liked the idea of a big scalp or catching out a big ego. But Flavor's frustration with Koopa seemed genuine and not that of a mafia player on the verge of going out. There's no reason Flavor wouldn't have survived D2 had they stayed in the game - even if NK15 was town there'd have been plenty of debate over what to do next. Indeed, with Koopa's reads being a bit all over the place at times and being very emotive, I'd argue mafia Flavor would've rather seen that sowing potentially incorrect ideas, insisting they are correct and then demanding we follow them in their beliefs. Their anger, again, as with a lot of what they've said, seemed to come from a desire to solve more than a desire to confuse.

I also think Gamma has been inherently townie since coming in. Disliking me more than Flavor, for example, is an interesting play because it suggests two townies in the same slot with different opinions on a player. Why does mafia Gamma risk alienating me or anyone else who has defended the slot?

[koopashell]

I have paid attention this game -> FL pushed people, waited for wagons to build, then withdrew.
My read on how he was using mala was correct and frankly i have the best understanding of the overall game due to having read everythng.
Do you really have 0 concern that FL was trying his best to avoid explaining a read in more detail with evidence? Like seriously - LOOK at his ISO- search for Roden in it. Look at how he pushes the slot.

It's so blatantly wolfy - I understand its hard to see without the whole story - but I'm telling you that no villager pushes townies like that and cannot even cite a single post where they wolfread them. He got angry because Roden and I refused to let him control the conversation around it. Ask yourself WHY he kept repeatedly refusing to substantiate this request.

[koopashell]

"Seemed genuine"
You realize that a mafia in that position is more likely to be frustrated BASED ON WHAT HE WAS ASKED TO DO

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't believe you've actually given any thought to the way FL treated Roden. And everyone who townreads them has lacked the same information of seeing Roden treatment.

They suspected Roden early on, dropped that suspicion a bit, and their read later evolved. Roden misrepresented FL in a lot of early posts as well, claiming they didn't really have concrete reads, but you conveniently don't bring that up because ultimately you just want this slot to be mafia because you want to have made a big catch which solved the game on D1. Townies can be inconsistent in reads, mafia can be inconsistent in reads, FL's supposed slip is no worse than NK15 suddenly reneging on their suspicion of Mala or conveniently suddenly making HEM their vote.

[koopashell]

Quote where Roden misrepresented FL.

[MalcolmTucker]

I have paid attention this game -> FL pushed people, waited for wagons to build, then withdrew.

My read on how he was using mala was correct and frankly i have the best understanding of the overall game due to having read everythng.
Do you really have 0 concern that FL was trying his best to avoid explaining a read in more detail with evidence? Like seriously - LOOK at his ISO- search for Roden in it. Look at how he pushes the slot.

It's so blatantly wolfy - I understand its hard to see without the whole story - but I'm telling you that no villager pushes townies like that and cannot even cite a single post where they wolfread them. He got angry because Roden and I refused to let him control the conversation around it. Ask yourself WHY he kept repeatedly refusing to substantiate this request.

So if you'd not role claimed, you'd be happy with us pushing to eliminate you on the basis of occasions where you've decided to vote slots with minimal activity despite suspecting plenty of other players?

[koopashell]

NK15 stopped pushing Mala after she posted a bunch of game advancing content - how is that bad?
I too flipped my read based on that -
This isnt about inconsistency in reads - this is straight up having no real reason for the read and pretending like they do.

[MathBlade]

FL never cases people. That’s not his thing. So yeah I have 0 concern.

My bigger concern is why you won’t talk about your NK15 read.

With your hyperposting and ultradefensiveness if you weren’t a claimed PR I would be elimming you.

It’s infuriating how anytime a wagon gets going you shut it down.

[koopashell]

Maclom - quote the misreps from Roden.

[MalcolmTucker]

I do have a suggestion that we should stop focusing on FL, myself, and monkey. I'm going to probably tone down my posting massively. I want other slots discussed because this is choking the gamestate.

I’d like it to be noticed that once this happened, and yet again it was about to diffuse that both Roden and HEM popped in and made a comment to keep the momentum going.


I am not wrong that there is scum energy in that bubble.

Here’s the thing, Koopa, yes, I push slots you see as town as scum, but I’m actively aware that it’s likely not all scum, meaning that in theory, our reads do line up more underneath the surface, if that makes sense.

This is also very +scum. You want to be able to push whoever you want without any kind of confrontation in return. You're just framing any one who tries to respond or challenge you as scum trying to displace momentum.

The issue is that if you actually cared about momentum, you would just cut any attempts to manipulate momentum short by answering what have been fairly easy questions. I'm just looking to see what's going on in your head but you're refusing to let anyone peek, instead you're shading anyone who tries to understand you.

Town has no reason to do that, but scum does.

I'm just looking to see what's going on in your head but you're refusing to let anyone peek, instead you're shading anyone who tries to understand you.

what do you mean I'm refusing to let anyone peek? I feel my thoughts are essentially out there on almost every slot in the game. If anything, I'm giving more than the majority of the players in this game.

My read on you at the time was just that insignificant. Now you just wanted to make more out of it.

This is actually false. You've posted quite a bit and have given plenty of reads, but you've done very little to actually explain them. Many of your reads are shallow and have vague justifications like "I sense a scum bubble with X players" or "I think scum is shifting momentum". Like none of that actually tells us anything.

I don't believe that your read on me was meant to be insignificant. You made a point of trying to get people to latch onto it while you argued with HEM. But nobody followed your PoE solve and now you want to act like it can't be used to try to read or solve you.

This was a blatant misrep for me albeit probably one which came from town frustration. Flavor was pretty clear with reads considering they were the most active player in the game at that point and I disagree they'd been particularly vague.

[koopashell]

FL never cases people. That’s not his thing. So yeah I have 0 concern.

My bigger concern is why you won’t talk about your NK15 read.

With your hyperposting and ultradefensiveness if you weren’t a claimed PR I would be elimming you.

It’s infuriating how anytime a wagon gets going you shut it down.

He was asked to quote posts from roden that substantiated his read. Not a hard task.

You refuse to see it from the other side. I have considered FL town - and that is evidence in my ISO.

[koopashell]

Now prove its a misrep by quoting FL posts that debunk it.

[MalcolmTucker]

NK15 stopped pushing Mala after she posted a bunch of game advancing content - how is that bad?

I too flipped my read based on that -
This isnt about inconsistency in reads - this is straight up having no real reason for the read and pretending like they do.

This is not why they stopped pushing Mala, they stopped pushing Mala because they claimed to have missed a post from them early game re their reasons for supposedly being happy to be town with JV. They went from seeing Mala as "obvious" scum to dropping the read incredibly early on.

[MalcolmTucker]

FL never cases people. That’s not his thing. So yeah I have 0 concern.

My bigger concern is why you won’t talk about your NK15 read.

With your hyperposting and ultradefensiveness if you weren’t a claimed PR I would be elimming you.

It’s infuriating how anytime a wagon gets going you shut it down.

He was asked to quote posts from roden that substantiated his read. Not a hard task.

You refuse to see it from the other side. I have considered FL town - and that is evidence in my ISO.

And I've done so, can you please understand players need time to reply when going back to fetch old posts?

[MalcolmTucker]

FL never cases people. That’s not his thing. So yeah I have 0 concern.

My bigger concern is why you won’t talk about your NK15 read.

With your hyperposting and ultradefensiveness if you weren’t a claimed PR I would be elimming you.

It’s infuriating how anytime a wagon gets going you shut it down.

He was asked to quote posts from roden that substantiated his read. Not a hard task.

You refuse to see it from the other side. I have considered FL town - and that is evidence in my ISO.

And I've done so, can you please understand players need time to reply when going back to fetch old posts?