Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[mykonian]

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1

I want people to consider Luke and I both being town then rereading how day 1 played, keeping an eye on the 3 unpaired ladies (fireisredsir, Datisi, malakittens) as well as Cephrir

That is a boatload of reading. :/

Also Luke is really frustrating to read.

[Ginngie]

Easy for me to read, it's my first time

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Datisi

[Ginngie]

imma keep this here at least until I've had my chat with you. I feel you being rather evasive and have committed to a lot of fence sitting. I'm not feeling any conviction from when I'm reading your posts.

VOTE: Luke

[Lukewarm]

Luke:8
Mala:6

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

[Dunnstral]

No, it's a blank vote with no explanation

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

[Ginngie]

Luke who you voting for right now?

I wanna see a hard stance using

Code: Select all

[v][/v]

[Ginngie]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

[Lukewarm]

Luke who you voting for right now?

I wanna see a hard stance using

Code: Select all

[v][/v]

This feels condescending, and I shall not be voting for at a minimum of 6 hours out of spite.

Thank you for your understanding

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

I already linked directly to that game in an earlier post, but sure. I accept the homework assignment

[Ginngie]

yeah my votes never leaving this phase I can tell

[Ginngie]

Go ahead and spend 6 hours coming up with who you'd vote for instead of doing something that would actually make you accountable for your actions

[Lukewarm]

That was a joke. I thought that the last line and the little emoji in there would let you know - But go off I guess.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny. Try to imagine both mala and Datisi as mafia during day 1 and think about how that might play out.

[mykonian]

See, that's a way easier question then assuming Luke's town.

Day one would've gone exactly as day one went.

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

I already linked directly to that game in an earlier post, but sure. I accept the homework assignment

Hmm. Looking back at that game, the response is less 1 to 1 then I thought it would be just remembering. Like, I planned on stip quoting that game and this one. It still has a lot of the same elements:

Immediate OMGUS.
Acting like my case is based on half-truths, which felt like confidence in their own alignment
Scoffing at my question on why scum luke would make the case that he had just called me scum for.
Not caring that my case was distinctly set up as "If x flips scum, I think that Datisi would be a likely partner, and so I want to kill X first" -> A factor that matters more to me now that I am pretty sure that Dunn is town btw.

Spoiler:

Ugh, I have thoughts, and I desperately want to be more strategic in the way that I disseminate my thoughts to the thread, and not just blurt every thought I have out. But I am struggling to find the best way to do it. So, I guess I failed, and I am blurting my thoughts out.

I hated Datisi's 587.

The moment I read it, my brain said that that is a mafia scared of a quick switch in thread perception of their partner. Nora made a case, I started shifting my reads (575), Fire said it was convincing (577). And then Datisi dropped 587.

It bothered me that it didn't call Dunn town, or town case him. It just called Noraa's reasons NAI - pumping breaks on the shift, without committing to calling Dunn town
Then said he was questioning his reads, then said he was gonna do some isos. Sets him up for a new push somewhere else all in one go.
----
So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.
----

I also didn't like 616, but in a way that is harder for me to put into words.

----

One the other hand, I feel like if Dunn flips town, I feel like scum!Datisi would be less likely to try and pump the breaks on the Dunn read shift. So, I much prefer flipping Dunn over any of the other options (Being me, noraa, Ceph, and Dunn), because he is not one of my town reads, and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa.

Pedit: Datisi just posted a change in stance, and I don't really know who to feel about it :/

i have multiple issues with lukewarm's 625

first, the minor nitpick is that the "he said he's gonna do isos which opens him up for doing a new push" is weird because we're deciding who gets left out. i already had the bases down for who of the gents i could push to get left. i don't need to be doing a weird 180 redoing isos announcement for that.

then, the reasons for my 587 bothering him is ???. yeah, i didn't towncase dunn or call him town. because i had already said i liked some of his posts prior to that and because i was responding to noraa's case of him, which i said i was gonna do. why would i be dropping a towncase there?

but probably my biggest problem is the "and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa" part - like, he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

actually, now that i type it out, i do feel like my instinct omgus reaction to the shade of our pair is not as good of a point as i first thought, but calling me scum over saying it's not ai for dunn to be talking the way he is feels bad faith and reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

not reading the pedits

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

Unless of course, you were just looking for a way to call me scum by calling it similar to my scum game with you

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

like i remember on d1 in guardians, i found some of your posts off because they were pushing logic what was only so slightly wrong and twisted in your favour - i let it go at the time because god knows that being illogical isn't a blanket scumtell but then once you flipped red i looked again and realized i was onto something

and 625 here similarly feels like it's pushing logic that's only slightly wrong but very much serves in your favour (e.g. me not dropping a couter-reason for townreading dunn when i was solely responding to noraa's case on him)

i can go through the guardians to look what this reminded me of if that's needed but like i don't feel like it right now

also i did not remember your partner-read of me/omega from that game at all until you brought it up, and i'm vaguely thinking if that's a cheeky way for trying to divert my attention onto the town-meta you're trying to emulate >_>

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

Can I ask what my master plan is in this scenario then? If you are town, and I am scum?

Is my partner Dunn, and I am trying to get him killed today, and set up a partner association on you? If so, why would I ever aim to kill off Dunn here? He is better then me lmao. I would be trying to either keep Nora in the death crosshairs, or possibly even falling on my sword for him if I didn't think we could get Noraa though.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

----

Too be clear, I am actvely trying to not partner associate you any more, but your argument that I am scum doing this feels bad.

Which funny enough, is making me lean back towards you being town, because I feel like I typed up this exact message to you in that Tris game.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

town locking me means absolutely nothing if it opens the avenue to argue that my dance partner is scum and that you want to eliminate zir. scum!you doesn't lose anything there.

Spoiler:

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

I actually had a similar worry during the night phase

But, my thinking requires a confirmation in scum!chaos, so I was holding off voicing the concern until after a chaos flip

Or I guess, until it looked like chaos was gonna flip today.

Why were you thinking Chaos is gonna flip from a naked vote?

Why do you think scum Chaos implies scum Datisi?

You keep implying that since I did not drop my entire case on Chaos all over again, that my vote was "rvs" or "naked" when it is actually a vote that has a whole case behind it in my iso. I even linked it all just now for umlaut. I thought chaos would be the flip today, because he is the scummiest player in the lobby, and looking over the chaos reads coming out of my town reads, I expect the necessary votes are there.

As for Dats, I would point you to his vote on chaos and then his subsequent move off of chaos.

He votes chaos in 230 with a passable fos his direction. At the time, Chaos had 0 votes.

Then he moves his vote to gamma in 270.

In between those two, I scum cased chaos, and voted him in 259. Chaos drops an omgus vote on me in 261. Ari calls out the omgus and votes chaos in 262/265.

270 is a wild time to move away from chaos. If dats was worried about chaos enough to vote him in 230, why would he move the moment actual pressure started building up on the slot?

And his stated reason for moving to gamma? Because gamma called ari town in 252...

Prior to this vote, I cannot find a place where dats called gamma scummy. I also cannot find a place where he calls ari scumm, dats was not calling ari scummy. So a "not explicitly scum read slot" votes another "nonexplicitly scum read slot" and that is enough to abandon the chaos wagon? It kind of looks like Dats put a distance vote, and then was surprised when it turned into a real wagon, and was just looking for a reason to change course.

And you remember our conversation day 1 about lots of people stating suspicions on Chaos, but voting Meg. Well, dats is the one who ended up starting the meg wagon and camped his vote there for the rest of the day. Even when I repeatedly tried to get that voting block to move to chaos.

The fact that he opened up today voting for Umlaut when there were already 2 votes on chaos further feeds in to the worry that dats and chaos are partners

And just searching his iso for mentions of chaos or omega (he refers to the slot as both).

He votes him early, when there is not pressure on the slot.

Then abandons ship the moment pressure actually builds up

And then he never comments on him again. He never calls anything he posts townie. He never calls anything he posts scummy. He just ignores it, even when I was very loudly stating why chaos was the better wagon.

re 1250:

i cannot explain how much this post pains me, because that is literally the exact opposite of how i approach partners in a scumgame - if i jump onto their wagon, i'm staying on it until either they flip, or i'm damn sure there's enough momentum elsewhere for them to not flip. but, in order to not turn this into a self meta argument, because i know how much the public loves those...

270 is a wild time to move away from chaos. If dats was worried about chaos enough to vote him in 230, why would he move the moment actual pressure started building up on the slot?

because i don't care about the "actual pressure" on the slot. unless i know a person and i know their specific town vs scum reactions to getting a lot of pressure (and i've never played with chaos before), other people pressuring a scumread with me doesn't help me. especially that early in the game, my votes do their own thing.

And his stated reason for moving to gamma? Because gamma called ari town in 252...

i have no clue where you're getting this, because this is a flat out lie. my stated reason for voting gamma is 272, which is "i couldn't remember a single solvey thing [he's] done this game". because at that point, he hadn't done anything solvey.

Prior to this vote, I cannot find a place where dats called gamma scummy. I also cannot find a place where he calls ari scumm, dats was not calling ari scummy. So a "not explicitly scum read slot" votes another "nonexplicitly scum read slot" and that is enough to abandon the chaos wagon? It kind of looks like Dats put a distance vote, and then was surprised when it turned into a real wagon, and was just looking for a reason to change course.

i did not call gamma scummy, because he wasn't "being" scummy, like nothing that he's done was scummy - it was the things he hadn't done. and when he posted 267-269, i realized that i've seen gamma post in the game before, but that i couldn't remember anything that he'd done. *that* is what prompted my vote.

again, no clue where you're getting the "non-scumread voted another non-scumread, and that is why dats unvoted" bullshit when i explicitly said two posts later why i was voting gamma, don't put words in my mouth.

and the "datisi tried to distance, but two other people jumped on the wagon, so datisi panicked because of a 3-vote wagon on page 11 and abandoned ship of the distance attepmt"? lmfao.

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

Dats, I specidically said that my case on you 100% hinges on Chaos being scum. If chaos flips town, then my primary worry 100% disappears.

So, I guess my question for you now is, do you think that Chaos flips scum?

i don't particularly care - it still feels like shade, especially as aristeia is currently having similar thoughts, and by the time omega does flip town (if he does), you can come up with any other bullshit to push me if you need.

i have no idea, i was hoping he'd have more contributions today for me to read. before you ask, no, i'm not interested in voting him right now.

my fos on you boils down to "i fucking hate the way you're trying to shade me". i'm not implying anything about your day one because right now i don't even remember all your stances on day one. if you're talking about your sudden shift into screaming that meg had to die right then and there... i again don't really care because i don't think i have to have a full out plan figured out for what scum!luke was doing at any time in the game in order to say that your shade on me is bad.

if you have anything specific to tell me about why i should think you're town here in that gamestate, feel free to point it out.

[Lukewarm]

Uhh. Should have labled the spoiler tags before I submitted.

The first is mine and datisi's interaction around my partner case on him this game. The second is mine and datisi's interactions around my partner case on him in the prior game that I was thinking about.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny. Try to imagine both mala and Datisi as mafia during day 1 and think about how that might play out.

I guess I am unsure why that pair, who would have had full control over who died between you, me, and noraa, would have killed Noraa. Of the three of us, I feel like zir would have been the easiest to later walk away from (say trading for Bell) in the last phase

[Lukewarm]

Upon reaching deadline I will ask the Mafia to privately submit a pair to eliminate

@Mod, will they kill a pair, or a single player as with the Ydra kill?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Gin+Andante

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Gin+Andante

Immediate OMGUS.

[Ginngie]

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

Hmmm. Maybe I am my own top choice now?

Need sleep, this is as far as I'm getting tonight

Why Myko here (which would kill Enchant)?

Mainly because I am suspicious of both, and they have been my top choice for us to vote out in the next phase, so swapping Bell into the pair would mess that up.

Myko would not be the worst choice, I quite liked your case on Enchant.

meh, I take that back, this refutes my point

[Ginngie]

Okay but fucking why tho?