Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Cephrir]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

im not really sure what to count and what not to count. if i include our attempts to read and understand each other as well as talking about other players, like, 18ish each? fire has been more proactive and made a couple more thought out posts which i enjoyed

Yeah, that's fine. I counted the one post towards the end where enchant told me to not talk about a Bell read. About each other seems fine.

18 in total?

each

i stopped counting super precisely because i was having trouble deciding what counted and what didn't so i will say i have 25 total posts and he has 23 (but his posts have more content than mine) and 2 of mine/4 of his are definitely not game relevant

[Bell]

I'm sulking that my miselimination streak continues.

[Bell]

I used to be pleasantly average at mafia.
What happened.

[Bell]

VOTE: Datasi

[mykonian]

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

[Cephrir]

(were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread)

there was a specific reason for this which i'd like to sit on just a little longer

[Bell]

My short philosophical discourse on dance games is that neighborhoods are where you go to pocket people. But that loudly announcing that neighborhoods are bad repeatedly, unless you're actively trying to force people to post outside of them is kind of scummy.

[Lukewarm]

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

[Cephrir]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

[Bell]

Sure, their claim of being busy is true an where they choose to dedicate their time might reveal their alignment.

[Cephrir]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

to be clear at this point i think it looks better if she didn't complete it before bell proposed. (though even still i don't really understand why it went in the pt and not here. i would expect a town player to be proud of their work and want to show it off... at least i would)

ig with ginngie giving her tips on how to look town idk if i can trust them not to conspire to lie about this haha

[Bell]

I haven't a clue what you would get from numbers with 0 context, there's no data set analysis for neighborhoods, so there's nothing really solid to go off there beyond our own assumptions. But that's pretty much true of 98% of mafia.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Also, I feel like you did not get enough info to make any infrences?

Like, you decided that it made sense that I was talking based off of my play last phase, and you thought Mala was influencing me in that time. But actually, neither one of us used the pt at all during last phase. The last post made in the PT was from before the Ydra flip

[Bell]

Why didn't you post in your dance thread @Luke.

[Lukewarm]

Why didn't you post in your dance thread @Luke.

I did at first when it immediately opened up, but then just kinda transitioned to putting everything in the main thread.

[Lukewarm]

Also, Mala kinda peetered out as well. The last couple posts were both me.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I would have used it a lot more with a different dance partner tbh

[Bell]

Yeah.

[mykonian]

ydrasse towny maybe for putting coherent words to similar thoughts that i had but didn't know how to parse

i did think his points on you (@luke) and noraa were decently towny so slight lean there i guess, but im also trying to lean against my natural inclination to townread likeable people

Fwiw, I think that Bell is always town here, and should probably be accepted by anyone he offers to.

my first reaction was to not like this post

and then my second reaction was to realize i kinda agree with this post

and then my third reaction was to think that you might actually not make this post as scum since people might not like it and it isn't really a necessary thing at all to say to further any sort of scum agenda

i feel like firebringer joining made him realize that was who he truly wanted to dance with, and things have never been the same between us since

feelings of inadequacy plague me

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

to follow up on this: luke, do you feel that what I've done this phase (or ceph, or probably others too) is significantly different from what myko has done? if so, in what why? and if not, why single out myko for it?

So what irks me generally is just how smooth and nice Fire is. Very little to get upset about with their posts, reads going a bit this way, reads going a bit that way. That's a general gut read, really. They do sneak in a couple posts where they link themselves to the thoughts of other players and that's a solid sign of buddying. I did go back to look for those, obv.

this is a fun setup. so many high impact choices!

This is very hard to care about

agreed, maybe we should just dance

And then lastly, they duck out of the most high impact choice they could have. Such a shame.

[Ginngie]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

I’m driving but red light posting on my way to work. Off the top of my head it was posted in PT and I’ll do time stamps if that helps you.

Also I really would hate to bring out meta but i swear to fucking god if we are going eith this bullshit that using PTs is only for scum. I’m posting my mastina and myself PT from one of my OG games and I’m literally posting the jjh927 and YUME warrior hood from the game i just hosted where it was just two town talking. God this is fucking asinine

[Bell]

I would be happy to discuss the ins and outs of PT discussion. You're being reductionist though. In your own way. But I'm guilty of not qualifying my statement with "I think given what I know about how people operate, it favors mafia"

[mykonian]

Just putting it out there Ginn.

From now on it's wifom so it's fine.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Mala didn't post much in thread. Dunn did. I don't think they are alike. Does it bother you your dance partner might be scum? I don't think this was a fight worth picking. Why does Mala have more posts there than you? You are solidly more active here as well than she is.

Also Dunn was in the center of attention for a fair bit and I could see him blow off steam in the PT there.

[Ginngie]

Havent read anything new but i would like to apologize for starting to curse heavily. I really don’t want to continue playing that way.

[Bell]

Anyone know Ginggie well enough to say whether they post like it's a newbie game when we're not in the newbie games?
They keep expanding their posts to explain their opinions. It's sort of like fun fact dropping on how Ginggie sees the game of mafia at the end.

Sort of like if I put a quote of a famous person at the end of every post I made.

[Bell]

I understand Ginngie that, 2122 is more about your world view and what you think is right and wrong, but I personally don't feel anything when someone swears as long as it avoids:
Sexism or racism or not done with the intent to hurt another's feelings.