Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[ItalianoVD]

It doesn’t make sense which is why they would do it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

It would be a very bold scum gambit, I don’t think NK15 is the type

[MathBlade]

I am interested in seeing what Andres flips to help figure out a scum narrative. I am having trouble finding it right now. I think it’s likely Andres flips scum but I don’t follow what.

[ItalianoVD]

It doesn’t make sense which is why they would do it.

Responding to 2947 & 2948

[JacksonVirgo]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?

Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie

I mean yes but no.

Assume scum have two PRs they had to use and Andres is a vanilla goon.

Then what were they doing?

We have Koopa, JV, and NK15 who all claimed something. If they’re all town what would the invests be doing?
Then if they have manipulators like a roleblock why did NK15 get a check off?

If Andres is a strongman so had to do the kill then that means we have a protective along with a gunsmith and a tracker who could act on D1?

I can’t get the pieces to fit which means something smells.

It could be more of an investigative-based scum-team where they have VCops or similar which forces me into a false-positive result for both sides. Roleblocker doesn't seem necessary with two gated investigatives.

[JacksonVirgo]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

It would be a very bold scum gambit, I don’t think NK15 is the type

That and they were quite confident the entire push on them yestergame, which aligns with them being PR knowing they wouldn't get the dead. It's not really an important argument as of right now.

[JacksonVirgo]

Tracker dies tonight or we get free checks or we find out they're scum that won't die. Not difficult to counter this possible gambit.

[MathBlade]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?

Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie

I mean yes but no.

Assume scum have two PRs they had to use and Andres is a vanilla goon.

Then what were they doing?

We have Koopa, JV, and NK15 who all claimed something. If they’re all town what would the invests be doing?
Then if they have manipulators like a roleblock why did NK15 get a check off?

If Andres is a strongman so had to do the kill then that means we have a protective along with a gunsmith and a tracker who could act on D1?

I can’t get the pieces to fit which means something smells.

It could be more of an investigative-based scum-team where they have VCops or similar which forces me into a false-positive result for both sides. Roleblocker doesn't seem necessary with two gated investigatives.

Assuming NK15 town for this argument:

There’s a gunsmith (which gets a guilty on almost all scum)
And a tracker who can fire N1.

This means that 2/3rds of the scum team could have potential guilties on them on N1. They might have a gated Roleblocker, but they’d need a gated inno or something.

Vanilla cop doesn’t work because soon as town invest flips it’s a guilty on the other.

It’s very puzzling.

[JacksonVirgo]

It doesn’t make sense which is why they would do it.

A 1 for 1 only benefits Town. If Andres is Town PR then mafia has an investigative that caught that, but considering the lack of a claim given a red-check I find that doubtful and even if that's true a 1 for 1 still benefits Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?

Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie

I mean yes but no.

Assume scum have two PRs they had to use and Andres is a vanilla goon.

Then what were they doing?

We have Koopa, JV, and NK15 who all claimed something. If they’re all town what would the invests be doing?
Then if they have manipulators like a roleblock why did NK15 get a check off?

If Andres is a strongman so had to do the kill then that means we have a protective along with a gunsmith and a tracker who could act on D1?

I can’t get the pieces to fit which means something smells.

It could be more of an investigative-based scum-team where they have VCops or similar which forces me into a false-positive result for both sides. Roleblocker doesn't seem necessary with two gated investigatives.

Assuming NK15 town for this argument:

There’s a gunsmith (which gets a guilty on almost all scum)
And a tracker who can fire N1.

This means that 2/3rds of the scum team could have potential guilties on them on N1. They might have a gated Roleblocker, but they’d need a gated inno or something.

Vanilla cop doesn’t work because soon as town invest flips it’s a guilty on the other.

It’s very puzzling.

I have claimed a backup for a gunsmith guilty which could very well be Vigilante. Scum could have a doctor which is a false-neg to a GS and thinks it's possible for a vigi to exist. Using it to protect a partner is possible. Why doesn't a VCop work, it isn't for a claim it's to counter TPRs

[MathBlade]

Vanilla cop doesn’t work for endgame reasons.
Assume NK15, Koopa, you all town.
Assume for argument’s sake you’re all killed each night and that the vanilla cop scum has claimed anywhere.

Vanilla cop is now turbo yeeted.

There’s no counter to the TPRs because even if the cop finds one it doesn’t matter as D2 becomes a results dump.

[JacksonVirgo]

Vanilla cop doesn’t work for endgame reasons.
Assume NK15, Koopa, you all town.
Assume for argument’s sake you’re all killed each night and that the vanilla cop scum has claimed anywhere.

Vanilla cop is now turbo yeeted.

There’s no counter to the TPRs because even if the cop finds one it doesn’t matter as D2 becomes a results dump.

What's the point in figuring this all out?

[MathBlade]

To make this work scum need a roleblocker which begs the question why NK15 has a result.

I just can’t make this work without it.

But yet at the same time I feel like I am falling into a paranoia rabbit hole.

[MathBlade]

Vanilla cop doesn’t work for endgame reasons.
Assume NK15, Koopa, you all town.
Assume for argument’s sake you’re all killed each night and that the vanilla cop scum has claimed anywhere.

Vanilla cop is now turbo yeeted.

There’s no counter to the TPRs because even if the cop finds one it doesn’t matter as D2 becomes a results dump.

What's the point in figuring this all out?

The point in figuring this out contributes heavily to scum dynamics.

It’s how I caught Koba when I replaced into a game of theirs recently where a similar move is pulled.

If you figure out why scum do things you can find who the scum are.

[JacksonVirgo]

To make this work scum need a roleblocker which begs the question why NK15 has a result.

I just can’t make this work without it.

But yet at the same time I feel like I am falling into a paranoia rabbit hole.

There is zero benefit to knowing this at the moment.

[Malakittens]

VOTE: andres p

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: andres p

VOTE: Unvote

To prevent quickhammer

Wanna answer my question?

[JacksonVirgo]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

I am quite confused

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

I am quite confused

In that game Koba was a false clear for bussing their buddy.

I examined it and figured out what they did only made sense for scum Koba.

By figuring out what the scum goals and intents are we can find who the players are that are doing it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

It would be a very bold scum gambit, I don’t think NK15 is the type

To expend on this, NK15 had a rather weak scumgame and he knows it, and plays to whatever strengths he can rather than improve his play. As such I don’t expect him to run a gambit where he is meant to be the surviving one.

[JacksonVirgo]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

I am quite confused

In that game Koba was a false clear for bussing their buddy.

I examined it and figured out what they did only made sense for scum Koba.

By figuring out what the scum goals and intents are we can find who the players are that are doing it.

We don't have a protective. They will sort themselves as long as we are vigilant about it and don't let time slip away the logic.

[JacksonVirgo]

Or we can elim them as soon as they give a green-check which is a route that's much more fun.

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

I am quite confused

In that game Koba was a false clear for bussing their buddy.

I examined it and figured out what they did only made sense for scum Koba.

By figuring out what the scum goals and intents are we can find who the players are that are doing it.

We don't have a protective. They will sort themselves as long as we are vigilant about it and don't let time slip away the logic.

Why do you say that?

If I was a protective I protect NK or JV not Koopa.

Koba has been known to run false gambits and lie to get what they want as town. Lord knows I wouldn’t protect them over JV or NK15. To be clear this is not a claim just an if. I might or might not be.

[MathBlade]

Or we can elim them as soon as they give a green-check which is a route that's much more fun.

I think sorting them soon as a green check. But yeah I can vibe with this.