Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[MathBlade]

Ahhh I get your point. There’s definitely some stuff to think about.

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I am a bit confused as to what is going on and why.

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

Anyway for now my hot take fresh off the press…

Scum team: koopa, Roden, Scorpious.

Honestly if I wasn’t leaning toward Flavor Leaf being town I’d think he and koopa were partners.

I think Mala is the LHF for today.

Well off to bed y’all everyone have a great night!

If no one sees Roden is scum here you’re not trying. Koopa what are you on brother?

Do me a favor and vote Roden. Okay?

Why do you townread mala?

Can you stop asking the same questions expecting a different answer? Mala is townread period. Not universally, but enough that she shouldn’t be the lim today. We are going for Roden today.

Why is roden wolf?

Don’t ask questions. Just follow. Vote Roden.

Like this has been ad nauseam. Your reads have been wrong and you aren't bothering to explain them.

Personally, I think Roden's the best fade today.

Gives loads of information, good chance of scum, most of the game doesn't get their point, and theyre just pushing like I flipped a narrative, when I really didn't.

Everyone else I can make a bigger case for being town, such as HEM, such as Mala, even NK15 has a stronger town case than Roden.

But there is a lot of good discussion to have on all those other slots that we likely can come to better conclusions with extra flips and a Night Kill + PR actions.

I think Roden's just the overall best fade today.

Let's kill HEM (:

Yeah let’s not.

Why?

I think he’s town.

This one also needs to be explained. It sounds like your read may have changed here, and if it has it would be good to know why.

Listen, frankly I’ve been trying to keep up since midday Day 1 and I’m failing immensely. I’ve basically given up trying to truly catchup and decided to just follow the events live.

Early on I thought HEM’s initial take on Mala was in good faith. I don’t agree with Gamma here regarding that it wasn’t. I could see why Mala was getting the heat she was and I wasn’t totally against it. I did start to feel some townie frustration from Mala though, so when I saw you jump on, it made me suspicious and then koopa and then Kitty. I really started to feel like her wagon was scum driven and you and Kitty jumped out to me. It was not who you were voting for, but how you did it. And I know both or all scum weren’t likely on the wagon but that’s where my head was.

Also at the time it felt like a possible pocket attempt on HEM with 69 coupled with 119. And the overall way you were positioning yourself around the two slots (HEM/Mala) was highly suspicious to me. From what I can remember you’ve been kinda following HEM around this whole game. And if he is town, then imo it can point to you being scum.

What has changed that should make me think otherwise? I mean if I’m wrong about you, then show me why. If I’ve missed something somewhere, which I probably did, then point me to it. You just saying I’m wrong means nothing to me.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s been hard for me to get a solid read on HEM, which is why it feels inconsistent. I use tone as one of the tools I use to read people and some of the tones of his posts sound townie and others sound scummy. I really wouldn’t be surprised with whatever he flips at this point as I could believe both. I didn’t truly believe Leaf’s entire case. Independently HEM feels town, but because I felt sorta strong that Leaf was town maybe he was seeing something I didn’t which is why I placed HEM right in the middle of my reads.

[MathBlade]

Silly question: Where is Mala?

[Gamma Emerald]

Early on I thought HEM’s initial take on Mala was in good faith. I don’t agree with Gamma here regarding that it wasn’t.

to elaborate, the initial take isn't as problematic as the constant insistence on that mala read, that's what I considered bad faith

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

Oh I voted NK15 thinking he was pulling a scum gambit on his partner? A vote I rescinded and a point I clarified with someone who is used to playing with scum!NK? That?

It's a weird order of events.

NK15: "I have a guilty on Andres" *votes Andres*
Italiano: "Roden scum slipped" *votes NK15*
Andres: "I'm town" *votes NK15*

It doesn't even make sense to vote NK15 here first. You only considered two worlds here: it was either a scum gambit and they were both scum, or Andres was just caught and NK15 was town. Andres is scum in both worlds, so why did you vote NK15? If you thought he could've been bussing, why not just...let him bus?

And sure if you wanna frame it like I was ‘defending’ the slot you can. My actual point was, it was a waste of a vote because there was a high chance nothing would come of it. Nice shade by the way.

I’d still like to go for Roden and/or Kitty once we figure out what’s going on with HEM.

I'm not framing anything. You blatantly defended flipped scum after they got hit with a guilty. You didn't say anything about your suspicions of a scum gambit until later on, you just shaded me then voted NK15 without addressing the guilty, or really even accusing NK15 of anything.

Feel free to scum case me though. I've been waiting for one, but all you've done all game is call me scum and complain that everyone is bad if they don't vote me.

Don’t @ me, if you read all my Day 2 posts, everyone can see where my head was. Why are you even asking these questions expecting a different answer? Come on bruh.

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

[MathBlade]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE: HEM

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.

[Gamma Emerald]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Oh? Could you explain further? I don't see why scum!italiano would make it painfully obvious and vote the tracker which guiltied their partner, given the partner was also just a Goon.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 3.01

With 9 players, it takes 5 to make a decision. Day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-05-03 09:00:00).

VC

JacksonVirgo [1]:

humaneatingmonkey [3045]

MalcolmTucker [1]:

JacksonVirgo [3100]

ItalianoVD [1]:

Gamma Emerald [3136]

Not voting [6]:

MalcolmTucker, KittyTacky, Malakittens, Roden, MathBlade [3110], ItalianoVD [3133]

[MathBlade]

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.

There’s no freaking out or “strong” emotions. It’s all laid back. I’d expect more hyper ness or something.

And since Andres flipped goon this means either scum were PRs or they thought Andres wouldn’t be tracked or they’re not competent scum. The latter isn’t likely as there was mass claim on D1. So likely PRs is where I am at.

[Gamma Emerald]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Oh? Could you explain further? I don't see why scum!italiano would make it painfully obvious and vote the tracker which guiltied their partner, given the partner was also just a Goon.

If not braced properly, a guilty can rattle a scum player to make moves that be plainly seen as covering for their buddy. I’ve actually blown my game up in the past by doing that.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.

There’s no freaking out or “strong” emotions. It’s all laid back. I’d expect more hyper ness or something.

And since Andres flipped goon this means either scum were PRs or they thought Andres wouldn’t be tracked or they’re not competent scum. The latter isn’t likely as there was mass claim on D1. So likely PRs is where I am at.

I do not believe lack of visceral behaviour is a hallmark for a deep-wolf. Andres being tracked and flipping red could mean a multitude of things for the way that the scum are acting and from what I've seen I don't think scum need two PRs to counter a gated GS with a counter within the Town (me) and a gated Tracker, so I seriously think that there's a scum that was in a worse position than Andres at the time prior to the red-check.

[JacksonVirgo]

If not braced properly, a guilty can rattle a scum player to make moves that be plainly seen as covering for their buddy. I’ve actually blown my game up in the past by doing that.

I mean I can definitely see scum doing what they did to open up mis-elimination possibilities but I personally do not see it coming from right after a red-check on their partner happens. Not completely against the elim but I won't be pushing it

[MathBlade]

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.

There’s no freaking out or “strong” emotions. It’s all laid back. I’d expect more hyper ness or something.

And since Andres flipped goon this means either scum were PRs or they thought Andres wouldn’t be tracked or they’re not competent scum. The latter isn’t likely as there was mass claim on D1. So likely PRs is where I am at.

I do not believe lack of visceral behaviour is a hallmark for a deep-wolf. Andres being tracked and flipping red could mean a multitude of things for the way that the scum are acting and from what I've seen I don't think scum need two PRs to counter a gated GS with a counter within the Town (me) and a gated Tracker, so I seriously think that there's a scum that was in a worse position than Andres at the time prior to the red-check.

That’s the thing. No one was really in a bad position from what I remember. Lots of wagons never really went anywhere and getting people to talk let alone consensus was rough. If a major wagon showed itself I’d agree but nothing like that existed.

[ItalianoVD]

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Oh? Could you explain further? I don't see why scum!italiano would make it painfully obvious and vote the tracker which guiltied their partner, given the partner was also just a Goon.

@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Oh? Could you explain further? I don't see why scum!italiano would make it painfully obvious and vote the tracker which guiltied their partner, given the partner was also just a Goon.

If not braced properly, a guilty can rattle a scum player to make moves that be plainly seen as covering for their buddy. I’ve actually blown my game up in the past by doing that.

Think like JV Gamma. And you’ve played scum with me before. This ain’t it.

[ItalianoVD]

My bad. Meant to condense those quotes.

[ItalianoVD]

I felt Math’s 2929 helped me along. I didn’t feel alone in my big brain thinking lol. I would do it again if I had to do it again.

Anyway in the mean time, anyone up for a Kitty wagon.

VOTE: Kitty

[MathBlade]

I felt Math’s 2929 helped me along. I didn’t feel alone in my big brain thinking lol. I would do it again if I had to do it again.

Anyway in the mean time, anyone up for a Kitty wagon.

VOTE: Kitty

Uhm what? How exactly did I help? How does that connect to Kitty?

I am more confused so I want to see what others are doing.

I am resetting so I am not going to veto anything and just sort of listening.

I want to solve the contradictions and see what scum are doing so the best way to do that is see what happens

[ItalianoVD]

I felt Math’s 2929 helped me along. I didn’t feel alone in my big brain thinking lol. I would do it again if I had to do it again.

Anyway in the mean time, anyone up for a Kitty wagon.

VOTE: Kitty

Uhm what? How exactly did I help? How does that connect to Kitty?

I am more confused so I want to see what others are doing.

I am resetting so I am not going to veto anything and just sort of listening.

I want to solve the contradictions and see what scum are doing so the best way to do that is see what happens

Sorry yeah these two events aren’t correlated. I’m not trying to shade you or anything, I’m simply saying I didn’t trust what was happening when NK15 came out with the guilty. When I read your post it was a mind-meld, even though it wasn’t actually a solid thought and was more of a passing possibility, I still was like “oh okay someone else is thinking too.” That’s all I meant by it helped me. I know I didn’t say it per se, but I’m not gonna always say what’s on my mind, especially not in this game.

[ItalianoVD]

And yeah, I get you on the reset and I kinda feel the same, but I’m not trying to read. I don’t generally see anything in the gamestate other then flipped scum and two dead town prs that has changed my mind on my early thoughts. I guess I’ll wait for Roden to respond to me and see what’s up there.