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Post Post #5625 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:35 pm

Post by Menalque »

let me try to put it this way:

if I am scum, let's say that I score a relatively arbitrary number of made-up "survival points" based on my night kills. if I kill you, the person most deadset on my death, I gain +10 survival points. if I kill ceph, I get to make the WIFOM argument that it hurts my chances of winning, and I gain +5 points.

but for
any other player
they gain let's say +20 survival points for killing any player that is not dwlee because they know that dwlee is highly likely to continue to tunnel me to death on D7. therefore any scum that is not me has at least as much motivation to kill ceph or andante or bell or CSF last night, because all of those are very likely to lead to the promising scenario of you murdering me today. does that make sense?
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Post Post #5626 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:36 pm

Post by Menalque »

or phased slightly differently: you're putting way too much emphasis on the fact that it
was ceph
when the actually relevant point is that it was
not dwlee
who was night killed
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Post Post #5627 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:06 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

I'll consider it
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #5628 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:24 pm

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

In post 5527, Menalque wrote:anyway, I guess I do have something to say

Pooky -> GL -> Bell -> Enchant -> CSF -> Dwlee99 -> Andante
Did you already explain why Enchant is so high up?

---

How do you crumb as scum?

And tbh, I'm still confused why you would think GuiltyLion or VPB were going to be nightkilled. GuiltyLion wasn't even townread enough Day 1 to be healed as one of
eight
experts

and in a hypothetical world where VPB was town, he was never going to be nightkilled, because scum wanted him alive for the WIFOM (since he had defused 2 bombs).
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Post Post #5629 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:42 pm

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

Also Mena, I feel like your read on VP is all over the place:
In post 2566, Menalque wrote:<...>
My current reads:

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph

null: VP Baltar
<...>
you were nullreading him coming into Day 2 (although I distinctly recall you saying he was towny in the PT later... maybe during Day 5? I'll see if I can dig up the post later)
In post 2582, Menalque wrote:My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant
<...>
what happened between these two posts?

I feel like your arguments "why would I do xyz was scum here?" aren't that convincing because for a large part of the game, it did feel like you were trying to just divert from scum lims and it just didn't swing in your favor.
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Post Post #5630 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:44 pm

Post by Datisi »

vote count 7.02
  • with
    8
    votes in play, it takes
    5
    to make a decision.
  • day 7 ends in
    (expired on 2022-05-07 20:45:00)
    .
  • 3
    players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n7.

execution:


Menalque [2]:
GuiltyLion, Dwlee99
Enchant [2]:
Andante, PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:
Menalque

not voting [3]:
Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Bell


bomb expert nominations:


Bell [3]:
GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque
Andante [3]:
GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque
Enchant [2]:
Menalque, Dwlee99
PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:
GuiltyLion

not nominating [5]:
PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Bell

eligible to be nominated:
PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, Enchant, Menalque, Bell
ineligible to be nominated:
Dwlee99, GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever


mod notes:
  • Menalque v/la weekends.
  • the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #5631 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:42 am

Post by Menalque »

In post 5627, Dwlee99 wrote:I'll consider it
tis all I ask of ye
In post 5628, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 5527, Menalque wrote:anyway, I guess I do have something to say

Pooky -> GL -> Bell -> Enchant -> CSF -> Dwlee99 -> Andante
Did you already explain why Enchant is so high up?

---

How do you crumb as scum?

And tbh, I'm still confused why you would think GuiltyLion or VPB were going to be nightkilled. GuiltyLion wasn't even townread enough Day 1 to be healed as one of
eight
experts

and in a hypothetical world where VPB was town, he was never going to be nightkilled, because scum wanted him alive for the WIFOM (since he had defused 2 bombs).
I did, although it can basically be summarised as "gut", see . I'm gonna try to re-read there today bc I realised that part of the reason I liked their posting was bc they seemed to have the same takes as me re: stuff like "Baltar is town" which, depending on their progression around it, may not be as towny as I thought at the time

uh, full disclosure I often don't crumb as scum, but when I do I do it the same way I do as town -- normally by finding the same role and then quoting a post that's similar to the way I normally speak exactly from someone who had that role. sometimes I will crumb in other ways like first or third letter of words or whatever, but that's normally too much work for me and I think easier to spot because it often leads to unnatural sounding sentences (at least from me)

GL I feel like I've explained multiple times already? I'm not the best at choosing NK targets, but a lot of how I choose is based on my own opinions and who I would pick if I were scum. meaning no disrespect to anybody else, GL is absolutely in the best 3 town players in this PL for me. the other two are pooky and catboi. catboi I couldn't protect because he was defuser, and pooky I had reservations on being town. GL seemed decently town, a high threat to scum if allowed to live, and as a bonus is someone I like and wanted to play with later. GL and I haven't actually had many games together where we've both been town, but I always had the impression that we'd probably jam well together if we did (and maybe we did roll town together once and it went okay, but not sure on that)

VPB uh, yeah, bad protecc -- he seemed town to me at that point, I was kinda into the "well scum made him defuser to try and get him killed bc of paranoia and so now they've failed they might just shoot him" but the bigger reason is that I initially tried to protect andres, then realised that he was defuser when very hungover and on my way to the bus station to travel to Valencia, and panicked and just went for the first person who came to mind
In post 5629, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Also Mena, I feel like your read on VP is all over the place:
In post 2566, Menalque wrote:<...>
My current reads:

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph

null: VP Baltar
<...>
you were nullreading him coming into Day 2 (although I distinctly recall you saying he was towny in the PT later... maybe during Day 5? I'll see if I can dig up the post later)
In post 2582, Menalque wrote:My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant
<...>
what happened between these two posts?

I feel like your arguments "why would I do xyz was scum here?" aren't that convincing because for a large part of the game, it did feel like you were trying to just divert from scum lims and it just didn't swing in your favor.
between those two I talked with greeting who said they thought enchant was town. I had been equivocating on the slot because I felt like I liked the posting but couldn't actually attribute any reasons for why it was explicitly town posting. similar thing with Baltar, where I thought his posting was
technically
null but I
liked
it anyway. greeting saying that they thought enchant was town made me feel more confident in trusting those feelings even if I couldn't articulate the reasons, and so I kinda said fuck it on baltar. this is also all my best remembrance, CSF, which is imperfect

okay, re: the "why would I do xyz" arguments, I think you're skipping over a large part of the context of that argument. you're right -- there's been two points in the game where I explicitly pushed against a scum lim, once in favour of what would have v likely been a town lim, one time against what I still think is quite likely another scum lim but sure, against limming the scum that we now have flipped. my point is more this: were misty/VPB likely to get away or endgame in the long term of the game in your opinion? VPB was guaranteed dead even if dwlee went through first. the idea that misty wouldn't have gone before Elo is ridiculous imo. that means that there were 3 scum left, including me, and I was the
only viable endgaming scum


I can be accused of plenty of things as scum: bad tone, lack of WIM, questionable night kills. but one thing I absolutely don't think anyone can accuse me of is not playing strategically to try and win the game (maybe slight exception in cases where the game is already clearly lost and I've gotten overly salty about it in the past). you can look at my past scum PTs -- even from N1, I'm normally trying to plot out a route to winning in elo, whether that be 7p, 5p, or 3p. my argument is this: as the only scum player of the hypothetical team you're talking about who
could have reasonably won the game for scum
why would my play be to openly protect my partners and pray that the WIFOM of "why would I openly try to protect my partners" is enough to carry me through to 3p where I'm going to magically convince someone not to lim me and flip town instead. especially when, despite having had this argument in games before where I've been misflipped, I
still got misflipped in those games and know that the argument of "why would I give myself bad optics" is often unconvincing
. it would be a
hell of a lot easier
for scum!mena who is trying to win to just bus the fuck out of baltar and then to keep up my bus stance on misty -- who I'd been advocating for limming for the vast majority of the game
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Post Post #5632 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:44 am

Post by Menalque »

tl;dr

if:

(1) to believe I am scum with the revealed scum team thus far you have to believe that I have been playing at least the last two days in a way that is not conducive to scum winning the game

and

(2) I play to win the game as scum, even when the odds are against me

then

(3) it therefore follows logically that I am not scum
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Post Post #5633 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:03 am

Post by Menalque »

I'm really confused by what scum were doing on N2

so scum's swapping role hasn't flipped yet

why swap misty into the experts is what I'm not getting, if they were already going to swap VPB into the defuser role? was it to give misty more towncred short term after VPB doesn't blow up? because that seems wildly short sighted given that they then used VPB to blow up andres -- why not put misty in again there
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Post Post #5634 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:04 am

Post by Menalque »

having no idea what mala was informed of also makes me uncomfortable
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Post Post #5635 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:08 am

Post by Menalque »

really wish I could remember who CSF is an alt of >.>
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Post Post #5636 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:15 am

Post by Bell »

Waiting on enchant.
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Post Post #5637 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:22 am

Post by Andante »

enchant is frozen scum. gg too easy
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Post Post #5638 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:45 am

Post by Menalque »

err, actually I'd quite like to talk to/about CSF as well
In post 1380, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 1277, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1193, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: do you think it's a fair assessment of your post? like does it affect your read of Bell?
I don't think it's a fair assessment. I don't even particularly know what it means. But it was also Friday, and after putting like 30 mins into trying to sort generally where my feelings on the game were at, I wanted to go drink some beer and chill, not get into a back and forth with someone right then.

As far as how I feel about Bell, I don't know if it was a bad faith bit of shading or not. I guess I'll see what he does with it or if he wants to explain further.
I thought it was scummy to post a readslist and not want to talk about it, since that's the primary reason for posting one. Your explanation for not wanting to get into a back and forth right away is plausible though I'm not sure i believe it. Since it doesn't really move the needle for me, let's just move on.

Your scumpool is alarming.

The one point you made against me that was valid was that I have not engaged a lot with you, which is probably true. But everything else I didn't think was fair.

There's Strange who is kind of just always LHF, because he struggles with expressing himself. Idk if you've played with him before and I won't hold this point against you if you haven't, but this scumread doesn't sway my opinion of you.

There's Titus, who I think was sick or something, and confidently asserted that she sometimes takes a backseat day 1. Why would she lie about something that can be so easily fact checked?

For Mala - idk how to read Koba and admittedly, the longer Mala goes without posting, the more concerned I get. The time I played with town Mala years ago, I vaguely recall her being obvtown. But she also has a busy/stressful job, so imo give her a couple more RL days to get into the game.

Overall, it gave me the impression that you went like: "hmm I have CSF and Strange in here and I should probably have a couple more scumreads, why not throw Titus and Mala in here?"

The other problem I have with your readslist is that I'm not sure everything tracks - fire is town because you vibe with his reads. But fire's scumpool {MT, Menalque, Andres} doesn't overlap with your scumpool here, so I'm not sure how that ended up being town for you
In post 1381, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 1279, VP Baltar wrote:Not really. My point is that your assessment is not only wrong, but hypocritical. I'm trying to get you to realize that your subjective experience of my play and your ability to remember it doesn't actually say anything about my alignment.

I can't remember a stance you actually took before you started this dumb fight, but does that mean you haven't taken stances? Probably not! It probably means I need to go do some reading.

Yes, I post more than you. So what? I'm also voting, trying to figure out what I think is best on the mechs, pushing people to talk to me about things I think actually could be AI, and generally being pretty transparent about my reads on situations. This is all pretty clear in my ISO, which you insinuate you have actually read, so your accusation of active lurking rings pretty hollow. There are definitely people you could point to in this game who ARE active lurking (Titus, kittens), but I don't expect you to acknowledge that because it kind of pops your balloon.
I acknowledge this post, but I doubt going back and forth on this further will produce any useful info or be fun to read for everyone else.
In post 1395, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 1393, catboi wrote:
In post 1389, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 1323, catboi wrote:
In post 1238, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Bell is probably just scum.
Highly unlikely at this point.
I don't know about "highly unlikely" but I am trending in that direction after the posts I just read on this page
Why were you scumreading him in the first place?
He had a reason to scumread VP, but didn't want to support his elim. Felt partner-y

Ik pooky said that's the opposite of what scum Bell would do in that situation, but that's what I felt at the time
In post 1399, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:yeah that's fair

I was also peeved that when VP was coming under pressure, and it looked like we may finally get a serious wagon going, he came in was like "no but LUKE"
In post 1847, VP Baltar wrote:Ok, I'm caught up!

Basic feelings on that catch up is the fire wagon feels lazy/possibly got some scum pushing it/hopping on. Bell I kind of think is confbiased town. Don't love that this is kind of just chugging along. I don't think fire's readslist is bad, and the complaint over formatting is :roll: What's the scum motivation for formatting it in a way you don't like?

Other things: I kinda liked a few points from CSF on andres, so maybe I'm wrong on her. I hated pretty much all of andres' catch up. Alot of it was kind of pointless. The heals are weird. And it seems like he is puffing up Frogster tinfoil until frog wraps him in the shiney.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andres

Don't think strange really looks better, but an andres wagon might actually happen today and I'd prefer that over fire.
In post 1864, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:VOTE: Andres
In post 2209, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 2205, Andante wrote:I wanna know why VP lived in hood 2... that's what I'm curious about...
We basically thought it was more likely VP was put there by scum for us to kill a townie and get another NK

More likely than scum!vp putting himself in there to wifom us since that's a huge risk with me and pooky in the thread

so, CSF, couple of questions about your D1 into N1 into start of D2:

you started off pushing on VPB/engaging with him quite a lot. this is most clearly seen in 1380 above. I believe you were voting him at that point, but you then make 1381 and sort of forget about him. however, you make it clear that he's still presumably a strong scumread for you because you're willing to SR Bell for being potentially partner-y with him based on 1395 and 1399.

however: you then pretty much complete stop talking or thinking about VPB for the next ~450 posts. you don't read him, talk about him, engage with him in any way really. when he votes andres in 1847 you then... also vote andres on the next page without ever mentioning that your VPB read has changed or what changed it from being a primary scumread who you were voting until around 100 pages before when you switched to fire.

none of that is super concerning; maybe you just changed your mind on VPB and didn't mention it, which isn't great, but okay. but then you mention at the start of D2 that VPB is more likely town for risking entering a thread with you and pooky. and pooky -- sure, definitely talked a lot about wanting to kill him. but you'd just been supporting his push for the end of day, so why should he feel threatened by having you there?
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Post Post #5639 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:46 am

Post by Menalque »

In post 5622, Menalque wrote:I'm still not sure if anyone has said why they think pooky is town btw, or if anyone has said that
would still truly love people to answer this
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Post Post #5640 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:51 am

Post by Andante »

I believe bomb pt last night was taking about how if it wasn't you it'd be pooky
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Post Post #5641 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:51 am

Post by Andante »

but then like, I was also very low on someone's list, when I should be obviously town sooo yeah
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Post Post #5642 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:53 am

Post by Andante »

also, whoever that was like "all 4 maf said we elected defusers" like... why would only the maf say it?? if I see something being said here, I'll roll with it, like if yall are saying we're electing defusers, I'll say it too, doesn't make me scum, sure 3 of the maf said it, but ehhh not sure I buy that only all 4 maf said it
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Post Post #5643 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:53 am

Post by Andante »

also mena is legit the towniest person here, so I'm not voting mena
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Post Post #5644 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:32 am

Post by Bell »

In post 5643, Andante wrote:also mena is legit the towniest person here, so I'm not voting mena
K.
I’m going to though and then I’m probably following Mena’s elimination list to the letter if they flip town.
I except for my elim, because, tbh. I can obv town and I already did tbh.
Some of my interactions with baltar clear me. In addition to some of my defenses of players. But eh. Cross that bridge when we get to it as already said.
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Post Post #5645 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:53 am

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

Mena partial quoting on the phone isn't working but about 5368:

- you didn't quote the posts where I really started thinking Andres was scum. I basically saw something shinier and moved there.

- i thought there was this collective agreement that defusers would blow up people we weren't townreading. Even though I liked VP's Andres push, i still wasn't townreading him if that makes sense
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Post Post #5646 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:55 am

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

Tbh last scum is a switcher

and i could see datisi putting in the four different types of protectives (jk, babysitter, doc, bodyguard) into the game for fun

That's giving me some doubt
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Post Post #5647 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:00 am

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

In post 5642, Andante wrote:also, whoever that was like "all 4 maf said we elected defusers" like... why would only the maf say it?? if I see something being said here, I'll roll with it, like if yall are saying we're electing defusers, I'll say it too, doesn't make me scum, sure 3 of the maf said it, but ehhh not sure I buy that only all 4 maf said it
That was me

You could check if town made the same mistake. I don't think anyone else did

The mixing up defuser and expert case isn't that solid against mena as it was for morning imo, since there's a simple explanation for it if he's town (which isn't the case for Mt)
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Location: Northeast USA

Post Post #5648 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:01 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

I asked at the beginning of the game if we could unvote for defuser but this was after scum seemed to realize (cause it was covered in the first 100ish posts)
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #5649 (ISO) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:09 am

Post by Cat Scratch Fever »

Eh we have plenty of time, I'll reread this weekend

Mena you still have a night action tonight, right?
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