Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[catboi]

I’m not sure that there is an answer that could be reasonably expected outside of “you just do”.

What if I said that's a shit answer?

Then I would wonder whether you asked the question in order to elicit a shit answer, thus dampening the impetus of suspicion against you.

I asked you the question to try to get you to justify your reasoning. It looks like you're having trouble backing up your accusation.

[catboi]

How many games have pooky and catboi played in together anyways?

Too many

[Wallflower]

I’m not sure that there is an answer that could be reasonably expected outside of “you just do”.

What if I said that's a shit answer?

Then I would wonder whether you asked the question in order to elicit a shit answer, thus dampening the impetus of suspicion against you.

I asked you the question to try to get you to justify your reasoning. It looks like you're having trouble backing up your accusation.

Ooo, why so aggressive?

I feel like I should be able to say that your posting feels a certain way to me without needing to explain the feeling.

But there seems to be this need to stamp out any suspicion cast against you, first with Tracer, and then with me. Seems a little OTT to me.

[Save The Dragons]

i hate that post

[Sword of Ducks]

Anyway, my townreads are as follows:

Save the dragons
Sword of ducks

I had no reason to read this as Save the Ducks and Sword of Dragons but I did anyway. Good job, sleep-lagged brain.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Wallflower

[catboi]

More likely you just asked it without really thinking about whether the response would be useful, but this is fun

Well, In the game of mafia, you are going to get accused of being scummy from time to time

Now, some of the time, the people pushing you are just townies who are trying to find mafia as well but as misreading you

But other times, the people pushing you are mafia, and they are doing so for bad reasons, because it is part of their win condition to get you killed

So, you see, generally I do this thing, right

When someone is pushing me I question them to try to figure out if they are suspecting me for genuine reasons or are being disingenous. This is the part of the game called "trying to get a read on people".


What I asked you was a fairly simple and non-threatening question question. You accused me of seeming "panicky". This is an incredibly vague descriptor that doesn't actually say a whole lot. It's easy to throw these sort of catchall attacks at someone - "panicky" "defensive" than it is to back it up. To explain both

why I seem panicky

and further,

why that makes me scum

. I don't really respond well to being wagoned as either alignment - I posted over 300 times in a newbie game where I got wagoned Day 2 on the basis of the claimed tracker faking a "reaction test" on me that I supposedly "failed", and spiraled into an obsessive paranoia-spiraling "solve" that was completely wrong. I was

certainly

panicky that game, and I was town!


It seemed possible at the time you just seem to be hung up on a misconception about me. That would be understandable, and I would not blame you for that. I fully admit my activity has tailed off after the first few days. This game started at a bad time for me. It had remained in signups for a long time, and when it started I had become involved with other activities that commanded more of my attention. So when you say "undrwhelming", sure, I get it, makes sense. That's a plausible misconception. When I come back and you accuse me of being

panicky

, I ask you to explain it anyway, because maybe you're hung up on the wrong idea. I don't think that's a good read, or even an accurate description of my return to the game thread. But it's plausible that you genuinely read it that way.

However, when you give a response of "idk you just do", it looks like you're just stretching to make a bullshit accusation to push a case that cannot be justified. It looks like you haven't actually thought this through and are going after flimsy reasoning you think you can force through. Now suddenly alarm bells are ringing because it doesn't look like you are actually interested in trying to sort me. It looks like you're making a bad faith shitpush using generic words and then using my response to getting pushed by you as justification for continuing the push. It feels like you're not approaching me in good faith.

[catboi]

VOTE: Wallflower

[catboi]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

[Toogeloo]

As someone who knows who Tracer's main is, and knows that he and I are about the same generation, I honestly don't see them as an asshole, and still don't get it when I see it called out.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I am probably a bigger dick more often than Tracer is. Nothing he did this game strikes me as being an asshole, and I think he got sick of hearing it.

Tracer slot is a hard town read. I am mildly hopeful he rescinds his request for replacement, if it's even possible (probably not).

I pretty much skimmed everything else.

[catboi]

My first game had catboi scum iirc, we lost handily

No, I was just honorary scum in that game who hard tunneled town, including you. Scum team was Save The Dragons and Roden.

But I digress.

[Well Done]

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

What about their more recent posts, including where they listed their townreads?

[catboi]

As someone who knows who Tracer's main is, and knows that he and I are about the same generation, I honestly don't see them as an asshole, and still don't get it when I see it called out.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I am probably a bigger dick more often than Tracer is. Nothing he did this game strikes me as being an asshole, and I think he got sick of hearing it.

Tracer slot is a hard town read. I am mildly hopeful he rescinds his request for replacement, if it's even possible (probably not).

I pretty much skimmed everything else.

He was being a huge dick and has a strong grudge against flavor leaf for whatever reason. I also don't actually think it's alignment-indicative for him.

[Toogeloo]

I've seen bigger assholes (/wave @LLD /wink). Tracer is pretty tame.

[catboi]

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

What about their more recent posts, including where they listed their townreads?

Assembling a list doesn't tell me anything. The townreads didn't look hideous but scum can give townreads of people easily. The problem is she doesn't have real thoughts. I started to skim her towngame in a recent micro but I'm still trying to catch up on this game.

[catboi]

I've seen bigger assholes (/wave @LLD /wink). Tracer is pretty tame.

Probably don't want to continue this discussion any further.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: catboi*

*sheep vote on the bigger wagon.

[Wallflower]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: catboi*

*sheep vote on the bigger wagon.

Why did you feel the need to add the disclaimer, as if it’s absolving you of responsibility for the vote?

[catboi]

So, for whole game you used "Scum" 25 times, but now used "Mafia" term.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

prob town.

So, for whole game you used "Scum" 25 times, but now used "Mafia" term.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

That's interesting, potentially a good catch. They seem to have noticed the slip immediately and attempted to correct it, as well.

I like this too

That is probably a town-indicative post for Enchant, yeah

[Wallflower]

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

What about their more recent posts, including where they listed their townreads?

Assembling a list doesn't tell me anything. The townreads didn't look hideous but scum can give townreads of people easily. The problem is she doesn't have real thoughts. I started to skim her towngame in a recent micro but I'm still trying to catch up on this game.

Do you think there’s a possibility that your suspicion of me is a reaction to me trying to figure you out in a similar way to how you are trying to figure me out?

[Wallflower]

I think that you and I have had similar constraints in relation to time able to be spent on the game, and I don’t have the capacity to make a *big post* right now, but the summary of my thoughts is that your play has been strongly affected by suspicion of you, and I think this is done in a way that is scum-indicative (pushes based on positioning rather than generated from a place of solving).

[catboi]

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

What about their more recent posts, including where they listed their townreads?

Assembling a list doesn't tell me anything. The townreads didn't look hideous but scum can give townreads of people easily. The problem is she doesn't have real thoughts. I started to skim her towngame in a recent micro but I'm still trying to catch up on this game.

Do you think there’s a possibility that your suspicion of me is a reaction to me trying to figure you out in a similar way to how you are trying to figure me out?

I don't think you're trying to figure me out. I think you're trying to shitpush me.

[catboi]

I think that you and I have had similar constraints in relation to time able to be spent on the game, and I don’t have the capacity to make a *big post* right now, but the summary of my thoughts is that your play has been strongly affected by suspicion of you, and I think this is done in a way that is scum-indicative (pushes based on positioning rather than generated from a place of solving).

Huh, wow, that's a lot of words that mean absolutely nothing

[Wallflower]

I mean, I plan on expanding on this later obviously.

[catboi]

pretentious alt tries terrible shitpush, gets scared and runs off