I have thought about this
while at work, while on the bus home, while heating up my frozen lentil soup in the microwave, watching it spin round and round... round and round... and just like that my thoughts on catboi have spun round and round.. round and round...
the key question is.. does catboi actually play like this as scum?
and I don't know for sure. Right now I'm still thinking.. yes, but I don't really share Flavor Leaf's certainty.
so I'm gonna lay it all out there and we'll go on a journey together! and maybe you'll think I'm scum tryharding or whatever. I don't care.
(I do care but I'm gonna pretend I don't)
Actually let's do it pros and cons style. Where the pros section is the part of the microwave that thinks catboi is scum and the cons section is the part of the microwave that thinks catboi is town
THE PROS
(imagine the 21st Century Fox music playing)
Right now I'm looking back over catboi's entrance and it still makes me feel all twitchy.
The whole premise of catboi's reply to Klick's early expressed suspicion is "what exactly are you expecting out of page 1 posting?", which makes logical sense sure, but there's this excessive fixation on it. Not only is there the initial question in
Post 70, but then there's the need to explain why this is a normal part of catboi's gameplay in
Post 77, quote their posts in disbelief in
Post 88 and conclude in
Post 100 that it feels like a serious reach with a "*shrug*" that is so incongruent with the preceding series of posts, it appears like a forced attempt to
appear
relaxed. (In particular, noting that Post 100 occurs after a series of votes on Catboi)
But the issue here is that I'm pretty sure it's a totally normal thing for people to start the game off by "suspecting" someone with weak reasoning (how else does a game get moving?), hency my question at the time, asking what exactly catboi was expecting of Klick. It seemed to be very obviously that sort of weak early suspicion that only means marginally more than RVS. So why did it get catboi's whiskers in a twist???
Early Day 1 wagons are also a thing that happen all the time, so what is
Post 109 if not an attempt to look like they are trying to solve the game. I don't think an experienced town player gets a silly early Day 1 wagon on them and thinks "there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here".
*
Lower impact stuff but I thought that catboi's reads felt conveniently positioned as going against the grain, and avoiding being part of any main wagon. For example the resistance to the Malcolm and MonkeyMan wagons, as well as Catboi's main expressed scumreads being people that weren't widely suspected. I wanted to watch this for longer to see how much it was a recurring pattern, and obviously it could just be coincidence, but it was just a thought I had.
*
Then there's the return post-catboiwagon 2.0.
Post 1184 still seems totally off to me. Catboi in the post clearly knows that Tracer is gone. The approach of needing to discredit a player who has replaced out feels desperate to me, where I would expect town (particularly town that knows they haven't been their usual activity level) to feel more confident in being correctly read as town. It's as if catboi is compensating for something.
Now, the push on me is what actually has me a bit conflicted.
I didn't like Catboi building their read on me based on me not explaining why they seem panicky to me. -Especially in the moment, I think that sometimes someone will just feel a certain way to you without the words necessarily being there to express it yet. I'm still a bit annoyed that I apparently needed to explain that.
Also, it follows on from the situation with Klick and then with Tracer of Catboi being unable to just let it go when someone suspects them.
And in regards to the vote, based on Catboi's own self-described approach in
Post 1206, it seems premature. Catboi asked how they seemed panicky to me, not why I thought they were scum.
And then finally
1224 - implying that I got scared and was running off, after I indicated that I did not have time for more in that moment, from a slot that has also had limited time since gamestart. HMMM
And now we get to....
THE CONS
(dun-dun-DUNNNNNNNNNNNN)
Now I realise there's going to be a lot less here, but the reason for doubting my read is actually a pretty big reason.
Maybe I'm biased, but the overarching impression I get from catboi's push on me is that it's really sloppy? If everyone starts wagoning me then I guess that'll prove me wrong, but in quoting my iso in
Post 1208 there is actually a fair number of posts that imo contradict the point made by catboi in the post, which I think wagoned scum making a push would be a bit more careful about. I originally thought it scummy that catboi hadn't read my recent towngame (see
Post 1214) before going all in with a vote on me, but then I thought that actually scum would probably think it pretty conspicuous that they hadn't done that, when they'd used meta to read other players unfamiliar to them (e.g. butterchurn) earlier in the game. Also
Post 1250 claims that they have more to say when they clearly don't (otherwise they would have said it to try and convince FL later on). But again, this is more townie than scummy imo because town when in SUSPICION MODE will think their reasoning is better than it is while scum will more likely be more aware that they don't have much.
Also i don't really agree with FL's pocket theory.
SO
my conclusion is that, either way, catboi is probably a bit rattled for whatever reason, because I think the suspicion on me hasn't been particularly well thought out regardless of catboi's alignment. and the question is whether it's rattled town or rattled scum. I cooould see the sloppy suspicion making sense from scum needing to DO SOMETHING and being INVESTED could be a new thing to try? There was also always the chance that it would get me all riled up and lead to a 1v1 which people just dismiss as TvT (it seems to happen a lot). OR, catboi just really doesn't like being pressured as either alignment and there are other reasons where things went a bit loopy. IDK. I'm leaning scum, but I'm interested to see what other people think.
