KTaNE [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant, why was Titus "blatant town"?

[Menalque]

Spoiler: posts from pooky iso page 1 that i want to talk more about but don’t have the wim to rn

I do think Tweetie is more on the hedgy side but she's one of those players that becomes more readable the later into a game it gets because she has absolutely terrible endurance as scum so it's p obvious later if she's a baddie.

She's absolutely a monster if she replaces into a game that has flips to work with because she's relentless but I can see her getting confused in a large theme that moves along fairly quickly. She hasn't done anything that makes me think she's town but I tend to give her a longer leash than most because like if she's town then she will be pretty useful later and if she's bad she'll be like obviously bad.

oh you're here

nice

VOTE: VPB

give me one reason you're town here

oh you're here

nice

VOTE: VPB

give me one reason you're town here

I haven't called you a moron yet. So, ya know, I'm trying!

that's actually not town indicative for you tho lol

usually you've already annoyed me by now :<

GL still lines up with my impression of him as scum

can you elaborate on this? what is setting off your bat sensors?

"you can't townread cephrir for being the only one to think about this because i did too. but i didn't really since it was a half baked idea"

plz tell me what is wrong with my characterization or what the town motivation is

Lol, Greeting can certainly townread you for it. Just wasn't your idea. Credit where it's due.

Maybe you came to the conclusion independently, idk. Just saying you definitely weren't the first person to bring it up. I think greeting is more town than you, so I'd prefer they have all the information when making their decision on reads. That's my motivation.

This is a perspective slip because of what's unsaid here.

from VPB!town's POV - he should be townreading cephrir for having the same thought process as he does - unless he wants to claim that Cephrir is just plagiarizing him 800 posts later or w/e but that's clearly not his intent as he didn't even state things in the way Cephrir did.

Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????

Like this game isn't about seeing who can score the most town!points for statements about game state - this game is about sorting between bad guys and good guys. VP's entire conversation with Cephrir isn't about sorting Cephrir - it's about saying oh it's unfair Ceph is getting credit for something that I already said sort of kind of - which is not a town mindset.

I'm gonna check something cuz I pretty much never remember VPB!town making a readlist on day one.

do you have an example of a completed town game I can check this against dude?

you've been playing for 13 years and you can't link me a single game where you made a readlist on d1 as town?

actually the fact you haven't told me to fuck off yet is kind of hilariously +scum for you

I kind of want CSF/Andante/Catboi/Me for my bomb team

Frogster/Greeting/Cephrir/Titus for the other team?

I have no issues with letting VPB defuse every bomb if these scumfucks keep putting him up to defuse bombs


HEAL: vpb

Between her and Andres it seems obvious they are switching in widely suspected players on purpose but I don't understand what the goal is

I think if they pick a widely suspected town player for the defuser - we can just blow that person up and POE narrows for them and they don't really get anywhere.

If they pick themselves for defuser - they run a risk of blowing themselves up.

So the least bad move they have is to target the same townread player - make the bombs stack up on them hoping we break, while using the swap to target people that are suspected in order to set up future mislims

this setup is absolutely brutal for scum - instead of having nightkills they basically squeeze their own POE lol

VOTE: mala

speed~run~hype

we shouldn't lim VPB because scum are going to try to blow him up anyway(if they don't try to blow him up thats basically a scumclaim)

no point doing their dirty work for them make him eat a bullet for someone else.

like game this out

if our policy is to blow up VPB if he gets a bomb

then scum will always make VPB the defuser if VPB is town

so when that happens booom time

and voila we solve the VPB issue without losing a lim

there's literally no point to divert and get paranoid of VPB atp - we're just playing into the scum wifom.

I investigated VPB he's a dirty scumfuck

actually i was just thinking if we put 3 defusals on VPB and he gets a fourth defusal done

he's basically an IC

or if we policy blow him up at 4th defusal, we have 0 chance of losing

if VPB is town, we reset to 0 defusals for scum and we get three more defusals with no worries.

if VPB is scum, we just policy bomb everyone and dare the scumbags to try to win

that is meant in a humorous way and not an obscene or mean way

love you dwlee(even if you r scumbaggo)

I was super confident in my strange read, but the way strange said what they said, I kinda doubt that read I had. Dwlee/Pooky interactions feel odd but idk what I think about it, and uhh yeah! Mala ISO is just.. lol nope it's just prodging tbh

dwlee just trying to make me look bad when they inevitably flip scum

Dwlee just desperately flailing at the air here

probly 4 of these 5:

Dwlee99
Enchant
Titus
Mala
Strange

Pooky, why did you agree to save VP? after saying how he was for sure scum D1?

well everyone else thought he was town and I didn't want to get blamed if he blew up and was town cuz then i'm dead next

also he yelled at me and I'm susceptible to AtE >.>

Mostly I don't think VPB has the guts to put himself into a bomb squad when I'm swearing up and down that I want to murder him and he knows I almost never change my mind because I'm stubborn as hell and tend to death-tunnel - I think it's more likely that scum set him up to make me want to blow him up and then I get elimmed on the day after for blowing him up.

mala scum just lolcatting at us

i think game is pretty much wrapped

it literally makes 0 sense to execute VPB.

if we execute VPB!Town, we basically lost a lim for nothing.

if we are playing in the VPB!scum world, then scum are going for some weird af wifom game where they are trying to win via VPB defusals.

in which case they will put up VPB to defuse the bomb.

in which case we can just blow him up and we keep our lim and scum waste a night.

blowing up VPB town is a lot better than limming VPB town

in other words blowing up VPB is preferable to limming VPB regardless of VPB alignment

and if scum are trying to win via vpb defusing shit, they have to put up VPB as defuser again.

scum want us to twist ourselves into a pretzel overthinking this paranoia bullshit

and if scum are trying to win via vpb defusing shit, they have to put up VPB as defuser again.

Didn't understand logic behind this one.

if we are in the world where scum are trying to win via defusals

THEN

I'm assuming scum don't have any1 more townread than VPB because if they did

they would use that person to defuse bombs instead of stacking up on VPB.

imo we're just being led towards paranoia because if scum don't crack townblock with paranoia they get POE'd out

Broke: Koba playing a million games with me: Dwlee is impossible to read deep wolf don Corleone

Woke: Andante playing with me a few games and I'm easy to read

Dwlee flexing their deepwolf muscles on us

ngl 35% of why I think vpbaltar is town is because I think if dwlee was scum with vpb they would've tried to bus VPB for the cred so they could get the last 2 defusals needed yes I have cool thoughts because I am a cool bear.

i don't think i've ever read a dwlee scum game where they posted a single complicated thought in my life

ok dwlee show me a single post from this game that could be construed as "complicated thought"

Dwlee's scum game is like 3 inches deep

I have 175 posts in this game and they are all:
1. Andante talk to me
2. Eat hot chip
3. Be non-binary
4. Twerk
5. Lie

you forgot "push convenient wagons" buddy

and now I'm interacting and nothing is happening

cuz dlee is terrified of you

They're pretty much always where the scum aren't this game.

What does that mean?

They're voting exclusively town with brain dead vote parks and about as much flexibility as an iceberg.

and like what even is this complaint

d1 i voted vpb

i changed my mind on him in the bomb PT (so much for no flexibility)

d2 i voted for frogster because dude needed to die

d3 i voted for mala because she basically was lolcatting and not even playing the game.

she turned up and started posting after hammer already landed

what exactly are you even blaming me for

after dwlee murders me in cold blood pls do not let them get away with it tyvm

cuz dlee is a scumbag

Definitely Town:

Bell
VPB
Andy
Greeting
Cephrir (if I am wrong about anyone in this tier its Ceph but I don't think I'm wrong)

Probably Town:

Mena
CSF
Andres

Null:

GuiltyLion
MistyX
Titus
StrangeMatter

Scum:

Dwlee
Enchant

DO NOT LET DWLEE GET AWAY WITH BLOWING ME UP

DWLEE IS TRYING TO SPIN SOME WEIRD BULLSHIT SCENARIO THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS TO EXCUSE BLOWING ME UP DO NOT BELIEVE THEM KILL THEM TOMMORROW IMMEDIATELY

They're going to have all sorts of bullshit excuses why it's fine:

"We can never trust pooky"

"He was just a VT"

"I would be sneaky about it if I was scum"

"There's no way I would openly plot to blow up Pooky and then actually do it"


This is classic refuge in audacity and every word is designed to make you think they won't do it, in fact the more brazen it is the more likely it is they get away with this shit.

dwlee can you walk me through why you told scum to make me defuser so you could blow me up?

also did you think the group you were in was all town prior to today?

think scum walked into that bomb session with the plan of blowing up Andres - when bomb expert is mafia its basically a strongman kill so this was planned out ahead of time.

I do think Dwlee made a good point that it doesn't make sense for them to bus Mala for cred and then openwolf a bomb explosion because now they can never endgame - unless SM is also scum and they're pulling a double bus. But even then it feels like a very shit exchange for them.

I don't think VPB makes sense as scum because blowing up Andres doesn't fit with that win condition

I guess it makes sense if VPB is bussing SM for towncred to get another defusal tonight

I don't think it makes sense to get cold feet on SM now because we had this same issue yesterday.

Never let VPB defuse another bomb regardless of SM flip imo.

I don't think VPB makes sense as scum because blowing up Andres doesn't fit with that win condition

why not? he's with 2 top SRs as defusers, thinks theyboth get limmed over him. yeet 2 town, then he goes. all while having 2 partners still alive. perfect plan. unless you're his buddyand know this already

no VPB gets blown up tonight or we lim him tomm

I don't get how that clears misty

like if we're at town!VPB scum!misty, why wouldnt misty just let VPB defuse and become focal point of game and misyeeted?

its better for scum to have townies be misyeeted than blown up by a bomb

[Menalque]

Spoiler: posts from pooky iso page 2 that I want to comment on when I have more wim

esp if VPB!Town already defused a bomb on night 1, then Misty!scum has a lot of incentive to let VPB!town defuse again and give them a NK and it creates town paranoia on VPB and a misyeet possible in the future

Pooky, I think you're maf with VP. which is why I'm alive

heartbreaking

HEAL: Mena

HEAL: Titus

maybe you can cheer her up in the PT

HURT: Mena

ngl this game would be better if we picked the defuser and the scum had to pick the experts

Mena do you think Dwlee is scum with VPBaltar?

Cuz I'm not sure what the point of this fight with you is if Baltar is flipping town here.

like the options are:

Dwlee town VPB scum, Dwlee thinks Mena is VPB's buddy
Dwlee scum VPB scum, Dwlee wants to chain Mena after VPB
Dwlee scum VPB town, Dwlee is pre-chaining to convince us that Dwlee is inno to win a 1v1?

I can see town Mena thinking you're scum for thinking he's scum but it's not compelling to me cuz you still need to flip Baltar scum first

notice how VP hasn’t gone back to being defuser… scum team knows he explodes if he goes back, so why wouldn’t town!vp go back to defusing???

well if VP is town he wouldn't go back to defuse either because Dwlee gets autoyeeted

I think we need to flip VP just to see where we are on the defusal meter

if dude flips scum we don't defuse any bombs no matter who shows up in the PT

i dont care if catboi comes back from the dead

I agree with not defusing anymore unless GL flips town (or I'm the defuser o3o)

I would definitely not trust you to defuse a bomb if VP flips scum :3

ok i've seen enough

VOTE: VP Baltar

yea im sure scum you would be blazing away with the machine guns and making it super obvious you are scum

you have convinced me

so you're saying if you're scum

and you have successful defusals

you would shoot up this town

to make it obvious that scum defused the bomb overnight?

just from a risk mitigation standpoint shouldn't we just flip VPB

if he's town then mafia are nowhere close to winning and we kill dwlee tomm

and if he's mafia then yah dead scum whooohoooo

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

does Andy!scum fake a mech clear on her scum partner Dwlee when Dwlee is already winning the 1v1

I mean you can't really think this

whats your question

if you think vp is scum why would you risk scum getting to 3/4 defuses by letting another bomb go through

because I'm not 100% sure on VP being mafia and scum

do not win at 3 even if VP is scum

also GL's first post in the hood PT felt really townie and honest to me. He didn't really feel like he was pushing for being spared - also I don't think there's any reason for Scum!GL to really expect the three of us to townread him.

look if VPB is mafia here - we simply do not defuse any more bombs period

there is no point to take that risk.

if you want to litigate whether GL is a partner we can have that discussion here in the open thread rather than execute in a closed hood.

if VPB flips scum here...

like GL is never defusing another bomb.[no1 in their right mind would let him defuse another bomb]

I am never defusing a bomb.

If the scum really r doing 4 defusal win condition it would have to be someone extremely townread as the third partner

Mena won't have enough rope for all of us

I got your back Dlee

even if VPB flips town

Bear Bros Forever

i dont understand how vpb is still alive r we being trolled

did he really die 10 pages ago but datisi wont vc cuz i wont give him a pagetop

I don't get it

you just said it's either GL/Pooky or GL/Ceph for the scum team but you're also saying that if GL flips scum then Pooky and Ceph r both town?

ok if GL/Pooky/Ceph are all town who are your scumreads then

VOTE: Mena


4 protectives with a backup protective in a game where scum dont even have 1 NK a night is yea no way.

I care about what mech makes sense to be in a game because I know mod meta is absolute and needs to make sense to pass review.

I do not give a shit about whether a PLAY makes sense for a SCUM to do.

Scum do plays that DO NOT MAKE SENSE all the time.

That is part of being scum.

If scum only did plays that makes sense they would get rekt every game.

Ceph your defense of mena is gonna look like shit tomm prepare to die dude

if you flip town I will make sure misty dies for you buddy

i hope mena paid you a retainer

i hope mena paid you a retainer

feel like two posts saying maybe we should think about all the possibilities before rushing in is maybe not worthy of these posts but ok

you're only making this worse for yourself

csf doesn't counterclaim as scum here that's absurd

mb you should be telling mena how to defend himself in the scum PT instead of here

i hope mena paid you a retainer

feel like two posts saying maybe we should think about all the possibilities before rushing in is maybe not worthy of these posts but ok

you're only making this worse for yourself

you're not going to get me killed this game scumbear

nice omgus didnt see it coming at all

its so covenient you scumread mena but when there's an actual chance of the dude dying suddenly you're bending over backwards to make a defense for him

i dont even know what your defense of mena is atp actually

there's literally no incentive for scum to be using their nightkills before VPB flips because if their nightkills go thru it literally outs VPB as a scumbag

and everything VPB said is probably just random ass anti-spew - dude knew he was on a limited timeline

i can't possibly imagine scum!CSF making 5344

that is a work of art

csf mvp

game over

lets wrap this up

im really drunk and i dont understand why misty and mena havent surrendered yet

kinda want to say fuck it and just vote mena but also feeling too cocky might not be the best play here if he actually flips town cuz I can see this shit going very sideways

like him casing me feels like a lot of effort for scum!him to be making if he's like doomed here

i lowkey actually do think maybe he just waves a white flag here and concedes if he's actually lone!scum which is kind of gross but he has mentioned playing against wincon on purpose multiple times in the past

I mean do you expect scum!mena to just concede cause that's lame

kind of yes rofl

like the thing with him pushing me is.

I can totally see him actually being paranoid of me if he's like town cuz dude is fucking terrified of scum!me since I've like eaten him multiple times.

and like I don't think it actually makes sense for him to do this shit!push on me as like cornered scum cuz the odds scum!him actually flips me here is pretty fucking low and like after I flip town where the fuck is he going to go? try to get 2 more misflips?

seems like a tall fucking task ngl

isn't that just how Enchant plays every game

that's actually a good point on scum morale lol

VOTE: Enchant

[Menalque]

Tbf even without my commentary, y’all may want to look at those two spoilers bc I think they contain some ~interesting~ reading

[Menalque]

I also really really don’t want to kill Enchant today

I’d rather do pooky but if it’s between me and enchant I think I’d prefer to go today, then do pooky tomorrow, then if we’re actually both town it probably is enchant

Need to do due diligence but I think resolving me/pooky first is a much healthier order

[Datisi]

vote count 7.03

• with
  8
  votes in play, it takes
  5
  to make a decision.
  
• day 7 ends in
  (expired on 2022-05-07 20:45:00)
  .
  
• 3
  players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n7.

execution:

Enchant [2]:

Andante, PookyTheMagicalBear

Menalque [1]:

Dwlee99

PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:

Menalque

not voting [4]:

Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Bell, GuiltyLion

bomb expert nominations:

Bell [3]:

GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque

Andante [3]:

GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque

Enchant [2]:

Menalque, Dwlee99

PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:

GuiltyLion

not nominating [5]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Bell

eligible to be nominated:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, Enchant, Menalque, Bell

ineligible to be nominated:

Dwlee99, GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

can you stop tunneling town and do something useful with your time

you will be less embarrassed after this game is over.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'd defend myself against your nonsense but your case is literally too stupid to refute and my eyes bleed when I read it.

It would also require me to actually put effort into this game and I'm thinking it might be easier for me to just get limmed so I no longer have to talk to you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It annoys me that you think it's ok to be wrong on every single thing and still wander in here like we should listen to you for the final lim order.

It feels like a very townie thing to think since only a townie could possibly be that fucking arrogant.

But I'd like to actually win the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe you will put me out of my misery and finally just lim me here so I can laugh at you bumblefuck around the last elims from the dead PT

that might actually be better for me actually

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

here's the towncase for myself:

(1) Mena says I'm mafia, Mena's been wrong on every single thing this entire game.

(2) If I was scum I would just push Mena to lim him instead of re-evaluating him OR I would just MAKE HIM A BOMB DEFUSER SO DWLEE CAN BLOW HIM INTO 25,000 PIECES. (It's actually wild that Mena is so adamant that Dwlee is kept alive to tunnel him but he doesn't realize he is being kept alive to tunnel me, like basic self awareness do you have it dude?)

(3) I would have to be a masochist to want to actually talk with Mena for another day. I am not a masochist. My scum game is fairly simple, kill people who are annoying so I don't have to talk to them. so if you're annoying me and you're alive, it's probly because I'm not scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let me try to put it this way:

if I am scum, let's say that I score a relatively arbitrary number of made-up "survival points" based on my night kills. if I kill you, the person most deadset on my death, I gain +10 survival points. if I kill ceph, I get to make the WIFOM argument that it hurts my chances of winning, and I gain +5 points.

but for

any other player

they gain let's say +20 survival points for killing any player that is not dwlee because they know that dwlee is highly likely to continue to tunnel me to death on D7. therefore any scum that is not me has at least as much motivation to kill ceph or andante or bell or CSF last night, because all of those are very likely to lead to the promising scenario of you murdering me today. does that make sense?

like he actually says this shit with a straight face while death tunneling me for the last three days

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why are you so clueless dude?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if I was scum I would arrange you and dwlee to have a nice little date in a nice dark room with a bomb and laugh at you getting blown up.

I do not do stupid wifom tricks as scum. I have literally one goal and I pursue it by walking in a straight line because my brain is the size of a walnut.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually how about this

HEAL: menalque

you go be a bomb expert

scum will make me a defuser

and then i can finally get out of this death tunnel of yours

[Menalque]

just to touch on that point: I don't think that's comparable, actually. scum need mislims, of which I am clearly very viable. dwlee is not a viable mislim. it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum!you to get me killed via defuser if you need my lim to be a daytime one. that's quite different to me not killing dwlee if scum to avoid dying during the day.

especially when, as others have noted, you're pretty high on the suspect list after I die

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes you're so viable as a mislim that I am defending you as town

clap clap

very brilliant insight mena

[Menalque]

I'm also not gonna be embarrassed after the game either way because I'm trying my best even if that's not very good, and I can't really do anything other than try my best to make reads and accept that they will be wrong sometimes

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I know you're not going to be embarrassed because you're fine with being wrong

[Menalque]

It annoys me that you think it's ok to be wrong on every single thing and still wander in here like we should listen to you for the final lim order.

It feels like a very townie thing to think since only a townie could possibly be that fucking arrogant.

But I'd like to actually win the game.

I would like to be listened to, but also even without me saying "you must do this" we've got Bell, for instance, saying that he's going to take my reads seriously after I flip town

so even without me insisting on that, I still have a certain burden to try and get my reads as good as I can if people will be following them or using them as guidance upon my townflip

attacking me isn't doing anything to make me see you as more town and I don't think your towncase is very good

(1) I haven't, actually, been wrong on everything. I've been wrong on plenty and been late/mistimed on other things, but that's different to being wrong about everything. also it's fallacious to think that because I've been wrong on other things I'm necessarily wrong on this, or that if someone has been right on other things that they will continue to be so

(2) you were previously pushing to lim me, I'm still very likely to be the lim for today which means you don't need to do it so directly, and if you're scum you also have to bear in mind how it's going to look after I flip town. I think that you going in super hard on me when several town are having doubts probably makes you look much worse tomorrow and that's why you're backing off

(3) this is probably the strongest reason for why you might be town, but I think you're strategic>annoyance. so even if, yes, you might like to kill me because I'm annoying you (which is also a weird take for any day prior to maybe yesterday, given how little we'd interacted) I don't think you would if you need me as a mislim to have a chance of winning the game, which I think you do

[Menalque]

I know you're not going to be embarrassed because you're fine with being wrong

I'm not fine with being wrong, I don't like it, but I'm also not going to torture myself over it if I think I did the best I could and it wasn't good enough -- I'm just going to try and do better next time

[Menalque]

if you think I'm town, why do you think Enchant is scum? and if Enchant isn't scum, then who would it be?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't know.

I have to sit down and do my re-read of the game.

I've been busy all week and the weekend is packed so I'll probably get some time to actually re-read monday-wednesday.

we have 8 days of deadline there is no rush - let's not fumble at the 3 yard line cuz we happened to have 1 scum left.

[Andante]

I also really really don’t want to kill Enchant today

I’d rather do pooky but if it’s between me and enchant I think I’d prefer to go today, then do pooky tomorrow, then if we’re actually both town it probably is enchant

Need to do due diligence but I think resolving me/pooky first is a much healthier order

why are you so confident enchant is town?

[Menalque]

I also really really don’t want to kill Enchant today

I’d rather do pooky but if it’s between me and enchant I think I’d prefer to go today, then do pooky tomorrow, then if we’re actually both town it probably is enchant

Need to do due diligence but I think resolving me/pooky first is a much healthier order

why are you so confident enchant is town?

it's not that... I'm confident that pooky is scum, but I think pooky has a much better scumgame than enchant.

so I'm much more worried that if Enchant is limmed today, then I probably go tomorrow, and pooky maybe manages to talk his way out of it in 3p

this is the other reason why I wanna be confident on everyone who isn't pooky or enchant being town, so that if y'all just lim me and pooky and the game hasn't ended then hopefully it means it is just enchant