KTaNE [game over!]

[Dwlee99]

Something something hot hands

[Bell]

That sounds even worse, it could be a symptom of a gambling addiction. Dwlee, you should get help, hot hands never last.

[Bell]

I’m also scum reading Dwlee btw.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will start my rereading tonight. This is a prodge.

Also based on skimming the last few pages, there are multiple people assuming we have 2 mislims. How do we know that when we don't know how many NKs scum have left? Worst case scenario, don't we only have 1 mislim?

8 alive today - D7
We mislim - 7 alive going into N7
We then blow up town (hypothetical scenario in which town!GL gets put up for bomb defuser) and scum NKs someone else --> 5 alive going into D8
We mislim again - 4 alive
Repeat N7 --> 2 alive gg

Tomorrow could be ELO or MELO if we fuck up today, right?

[Bell]

Would it really count if we blew up GL though, because he’s in the pool.
Getting 3 out of 4 of your suspects is a dream come true for this stage of the game.

[Menalque]

Bell, you’re very funny sometimes

[Enchant]

While i drinking tea, i tried to think, why we have so many protectives and why we stuck here overall.

Firstly i really wanted to accuse Menal, because existance with 1-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard is paradox, as they can protect each other and being impossible to kill (i think). Of course then i remembered that Menal is "Not twice in a row".

Protectives have exactly one point in this game. Hindering town. Yep. You all trash. Datisi setuped this on mafia winning via defuses. Mafia received bonus for being so stacked against typical "kill them all" wincon, and they allowed to carry rigged bomb once.

Point of protectives is hiding amount of kills performed. So you never can be sure, did someone block kill or not.


Let's assume we have All-Town Expert Team d1, which are SANE. Yes i know it's hard to believe but look. Mafia then chooses someone Townie-Townie who town wants to save, they obviously do, but "Bam", he dies anyway. Everyone pissed on everyone, chaos. Town can't possible kill all four too fast. Others fill in Expert Niche, others will be defusers. Of course, mafia will never make previous experts defusers, they make self. And more likely they defuse than not.

It was possible for mafia to win, while town tried to shred in search of day 1 sabotour which never existed in first place.


Of course, this plan failed, because of hilarious reasons, but VP still managed get 2 defuses. When i voted him and suggested to "check" how much defuses we have, it didn't find almost none support. Then VP just takes and blows up Andres for hellwhat reason, blowing his cover, just blows how many defuses mafia have. Of course it was idiotic move, so i supported him, because i didn't expect he really act like that as scum.

I didn't really look back and my memory bad, but did VP also try to vote Mistix? I think yes. All while talking that maybe here is scum role which can blow up bombs anyway, so he and Dwlee99 can be "both" town. It's pretty ridicilous approach as scum, even if Mistix was somehow flipped first.

Who helped VP vote Mistix? I don't really remember and lazy. Also tea ended, idk why i even writed, looks like bullshit. Right now thinking it could be also Dwlee99 in addition.

So i am back to other games, punch @Enchant to summon me, i will come back.

[Menalque]

I don’t think mafia really were planning to win by the defuse wincon, but I think they wanted it to look that way for a while

[Enchant]

Mafia also informed.

Now guess about what? About something abnormal. What is abnormal in this game?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant if you believed that, then why were you pushing andante

[Enchant]

BECAUSE I JUST THINKED ABOUT IT, WHY THE FUCK

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Like i think it's very likely that scum rigged andante's group to blow up to chain miselims in that group

Which makes andante likely town in my eyes

[Enchant]

I forgot who was in first group altogether as useless info.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

-_- ok

[Menalque]

Spoiler: commentary on the pooky posts I quoted earlier

I do think Tweetie is more on the hedgy side but she's one of those players that becomes more readable the later into a game it gets because she has absolutely terrible endurance as scum so it's p obvious later if she's a baddie.

She's absolutely a monster if she replaces into a game that has flips to work with because she's relentless but I can see her getting confused in a large theme that moves along fairly quickly. She hasn't done anything that makes me think she's town but I tend to give her a longer leash than most because like if she's town then she will be pretty useful later and if she's bad she'll be like obviously bad.

Here because it’s an early defence of MT!scum that probably wasn’t strictly necessary. Could just be him being wrong, but wanted to note.

oh you're here

nice

VOTE: VPB

give me one reason you're town here

Start of the VPB push

oh you're here

nice

VOTE: VPB

give me one reason you're town here

I haven't called you a moron yet. So, ya know, I'm trying!

that's actually not town indicative for you tho lol

usually you've already annoyed me by now :<

Not really clear why pooky scumreads VPB, but that’s not super important, the more important thing is charting his progression here

GL still lines up with my impression of him as scum

can you elaborate on this? what is setting off your bat sensors?

Giving MT some softball questions to help her get into the game?

"you can't townread cephrir for being the only one to think about this because i did too. but i didn't really since it was a half baked idea"

plz tell me what is wrong with my characterization or what the town motivation is

Lol, Greeting can certainly townread you for it. Just wasn't your idea. Credit where it's due.

Maybe you came to the conclusion independently, idk. Just saying you definitely weren't the first person to bring it up. I think greeting is more town than you, so I'd prefer they have all the information when making their decision on reads. That's my motivation.

This is a perspective slip because of what's unsaid here.

from VPB!town's POV - he should be townreading cephrir for having the same thought process as he does - unless he wants to claim that Cephrir is just plagiarizing him 800 posts later or w/e but that's clearly not his intent as he didn't even state things in the way Cephrir did.

Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????

Like this game isn't about seeing who can score the most town!points for statements about game state - this game is about sorting between bad guys and good guys. VP's entire conversation with Cephrir isn't about sorting Cephrir - it's about saying oh it's unfair Ceph is getting credit for something that I already said sort of kind of - which is not a town mindset.

Okay, this is an important one. These are all really fair points on VPB being scum, especially now that VPB has uh, actually flipped scum. This is the sort of thing you would expect to be brought up again, right? Well

I'm gonna check something cuz I pretty much never remember VPB!town making a readlist on day one.

do you have an example of a completed town game I can check this against dude?

Instead, focus is more on something I think is a pretty weak reason to suspect someone. Idk, maybe this is why pooky is better at catching scum than me normally, but someone doing/not doing a readslist D1 seems like the kinda thing that could be for ~whatever~ reason and is a lot less convincing than hammering the perspective slip thing

you've been playing for 13 years and you can't link me a single game where you made a readlist on d1 as town?

More of the same

actually the fact you haven't told me to fuck off yet is kind of hilariously +scum for you

Another very personal, fairly weak, and unlikely to be convincing to anyone else reason for why VPB is scum

I kind of want CSF/Andante/Catboi/Me for my bomb team

Frogster/Greeting/Cephrir/Titus for the other team?

These two are actually a point against pooky!scum, I think – I would have expected him to want one scum in both expert teams? Whereas this would have been super, super town-stacked if it had gone through

I have no issues with letting VPB defuse every bomb if these scumfucks keep putting him up to defuse bombs


HEAL: vpb

Okay, this is the first weird bit where he’s completely forgotten about the perspective slip/VPB being scum and pooky is advocating for VPB to keep being a defuser

Between her and Andres it seems obvious they are switching in widely suspected players on purpose but I don't understand what the goal is

I think if they pick a widely suspected town player for the defuser - we can just blow that person up and POE narrows for them and they don't really get anywhere.

If they pick themselves for defuser - they run a risk of blowing themselves up.

So the least bad move they have is to target the same townread player - make the bombs stack up on them hoping we break, while using the swap to target people that are suspected in order to set up future mislims

This, in hindsight, looks bad to me – it’s a roundabout way of arguing that VPB should keep defusing. The subtext is that we shouldn’t break i.e. detonate someone/lim them so long as the defuser is townread – and who’s the defuser who’s been subbed in twice? That’s right, our flipped scum, VPB. And who is pooky now pushing as being towny despite never really having addressed why his read changed despite “others in the PT thought that we shouldn’t kill him and I was worried I’d die next if I unilaterally took him out”. Because that’s a reason to not blow him up sure – but it’s not a reason to come round to him being town and to forget the reasons he was scum to you in the first place

this setup is absolutely brutal for scum - instead of having nightkills they basically squeeze their own POE lol

This and another post seem to be griping about the setup being unfair for scum, which I think is the sort of thing that’s slightly more likely to come from scum in the abstract, and combined with the other reasons for pooky being scum is quite telling overall

VOTE: mala

speed~run~hype

Pooky immediately hops on the mala wagon, despite not having any real interest in her prior to this. In fairness, I can see town!pooky doing this too, but it would have been important for scum pooky who was probably already thinking about endgame to make sure he got on the bus for the cred

we shouldn't lim VPB because scum are going to try to blow him up anyway(if they don't try to blow him up thats basically a scumclaim)

no point doing their dirty work for them make him eat a bullet for someone else.

like game this out

if our policy is to blow up VPB if he gets a bomb

then scum will always make VPB the defuser if VPB is town

so when that happens booom time

and voila we solve the VPB issue without losing a lim

there's literally no point to divert and get paranoid of VPB atp - we're just playing into the scum wifom.

The above two go together, I think. So the reason to not have VPB limmed is because he needs to made defuser, right? Because if he’s town, scum will make him defuser and we can kill him that way. And if scum won’t make him defuser, it’s a scumclaim and we can lim him. Great!

So why is pooky voting for him to be an expert at this point? You know, one of the things that prevents him being made defuser, which is apparently how pooky wants to sovle the slot despite still never having actually explained what changed for him on why VPB was scum to town.

I investigated VPB he's a dirty scumfuck

This one is weird

actually i was just thinking if we put 3 defusals on VPB and he gets a fourth defusal done

he's basically an IC

We would have lost the game if we’d done this

or if we policy blow him up at 4th defusal, we have 0 chance of losing

if VPB is town, we reset to 0 defusals for scum and we get three more defusals with no worries.

if VPB is scum, we just policy bomb everyone and dare the scumbags to try to win

Still advocating for VPB to keep defusing despite it not being clear what makes VPB town

to pookyp

other than having been picked as defuser twice

that is meant in a humorous way and not an obscene or mean way

love you dwlee(even if you r scumbaggo)

Okay, this is the other important thing from pooky’s ISO imo, his dwlee read

I was super confident in my strange read, but the way strange said what they said, I kinda doubt that read I had. Dwlee/Pooky interactions feel odd but idk what I think about it, and uhh yeah! Mala ISO is just.. lol nope it's just prodging tbh

dwlee just trying to make me look bad when they inevitably flip scum

So there’s a lot of him talking about how dwlee is scum

Dwlee just desperately flailing at the air here

A loooooot

probly 4 of these 5:

Dwlee99
Enchant
Titus
Mala
Strange

Wanted to note this one because there is a max of 2 scum in here and I think quite likely only 1. Think that’s worth noting because pooky is happy to call out his accuracy as being super high normally. And it’s also worth noting that pooky really hard transitions on titus later, and his enchant read is never really substantiated either

Pooky, why did you agree to save VP? after saying how he was for sure scum D1?

well everyone else thought he was town and I didn't want to get blamed if he blew up and was town cuz then i'm dead next

also he yelled at me and I'm susceptible to AtE >.>

Mostly I don't think VPB has the guts to put himself into a bomb squad when I'm swearing up and down that I want to murder him and he knows I almost never change my mind because I'm stubborn as hell and tend to death-tunnel - I think it's more likely that scum set him up to make me want to blow him up and then I get elimmed on the day after for blowing him up.

Okay, this is as much of an explanation as we get for pooky shifting on VPB. And it’s, I guess, sort of plausible? But that’s not saying a huge amount for me, because

of course

it’s sort of plausible, because pooky is a good player and knows how to work a narrative. But why doesn’t this get brought up any earlier – why has all the other stuff about not killing VPB been to do with him being picked to be defuser by scum instead of actually arguing for why VPB is town based on his actions?

mala scum just lolcatting at us

i think game is pretty much wrapped

Mala scum who pooky is very confident on now despite not being a concern for nearly all the game. This is p weaksauce tho, it just caught my eye as I was going through

it literally makes 0 sense to execute VPB.

if we execute VPB!Town, we basically lost a lim for nothing.

if we are playing in the VPB!scum world, then scum are going for some weird af wifom game where they are trying to win via VPB defusals.

in which case they will put up VPB to defuse the bomb.

in which case we can just blow him up and we keep our lim and scum waste a night.

More defending VPB. But why does pooky want VPB blown up if he thinks he’s town? And why, if he thinks blowing him up is the right move, was he talking earlier about how maybe we should let VPB get 3 or possibly 4 defusals? It makes no fucking sense

blowing up VPB town is a lot better than limming VPB town

More advocacy of why VPB is not a good lim. This will also be important later

in other words blowing up VPB is preferable to limming VPB regardless of VPB alignment

and if scum are trying to win via vpb defusing shit, they have to put up VPB as defuser again.

scum want us to twist ourselves into a pretzel overthinking this paranoia bullshit

Wow, it sure seems convenient to me that we should just let VPB continue to live until he gets made defuser again!

and if scum are trying to win via vpb defusing shit, they have to put up VPB as defuser again.

Didn't understand logic behind this one.

if we are in the world where scum are trying to win via defusals

THEN

I'm assuming scum don't have any1 more townread than VPB because if they did

they would use that person to defuse bombs instead of stacking up on VPB.

imo we're just being led towards paranoia because if scum don't crack townblock with paranoia they get POE'd out

Well, no, not necessarily. Let’s think about this – it’s always kind of a risk to try and win on defuses because you might always have a catboi/frog situation. So putting your towniest member in to try and defuse might pay off, but frankly nobody was towny enough to do all 4 probably. Plus

by virtue

of being chosen, that person is probably gonna look more and more suspicious. So I think it would make a lot of sense to, say, have someone who knows they may well go down do as many defusals as they can get away with, while saving your towniest player to try and win conventionally

Broke: Koba playing a million games with me: Dwlee is impossible to read deep wolf don Corleone

Woke: Andante playing with me a few games and I'm easy to read

Dwlee flexing their deepwolf muscles on us

ngl 35% of why I think vpbaltar is town is because I think if dwlee was scum with vpb they would've tried to bus VPB for the cred so they could get the last 2 defusals needed yes I have cool thoughts because I am a cool bear.

So pooky is still thinking VPB is town at this point apparently, and he’s still very much thinking that dwlee is scum

i don't think i've ever read a dwlee scum game where they posted a single complicated thought in my life

here

ok dwlee show me a single post from this game that could be construed as "complicated thought"

and here

Dwlee's scum game is like 3 inches deep

and here too

I have 175 posts in this game and they are all:
1. Andante talk to me
2. Eat hot chip
3. Be non-binary
4. Twerk
5. Lie

you forgot "push convenient wagons" buddy

and some more pushing dwlee here as well

and now I'm interacting and nothing is happening

cuz dlee is terrified of you

uh yeah, not sure why this one is here now I’m reading through

They're pretty much always where the scum aren't this game.

What does that mean?

They're voting exclusively town with brain dead vote parks and about as much flexibility as an iceberg.

and like what even is this complaint

d1 i voted vpb

i changed my mind on him in the bomb PT (so much for no flexibility)

d2 i voted for frogster because dude needed to die

d3 i voted for mala because she basically was lolcatting and not even playing the game.

she turned up and started posting after hammer already landed

what exactly are you even blaming me for

but like… the changing of the mind isn’t really what was said. It’s duelling explanations being provided – sometimes he changed his mind because he really thought that VPB wouldn’t put himself in that position, sometimes it’s because he was worried that if he was wrong then he’d be blown up

@CSF, go look at pooky’s iso in the n1 bomb pt. you can confirm for everyone else that only at one point does he allude to actually reconsidering VPB as town, and even then it’s not for the reason he’s talked about elsewhere (that VPB would have to have huge balls to make himself defuser when pooky was in the expert group) although I’ll grant that it’s similar. It’s because he says that he thinks baltar trying to case him in the PT while he has power of life and death over him is towny

after dwlee murders me in cold blood pls do not let them get away with it tyvm

Back on that dwlee!scum hype

cuz dlee is a scumbag

And again

Definitely Town:

Bell
VPB
Andy
Greeting
Cephrir (if I am wrong about anyone in this tier its Ceph but I don't think I'm wrong)

Probably Town:

Mena
CSF
Andres

Null:

GuiltyLion
MistyX
Titus
StrangeMatter

Scum:

Dwlee
Enchant

Dwlee and enchant are at the bottom of the scumpile. Sooooo why is he not really advocating for either of their deaths? Also, titus has moved up from scum to null, along with misty and strangematter, from back in 2974. Why? Let’s look at their posts inbetween

[INSERT POSTS]

Okay, so what caused the shift here?

DO NOT LET DWLEE GET AWAY WITH BLOWING ME UP

More yelling about dwlee scum. This seems like a very strong read!

DWLEE IS TRYING TO SPIN SOME WEIRD BULLSHIT SCENARIO THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS TO EXCUSE BLOWING ME UP DO NOT BELIEVE THEM KILL THEM TOMMORROW IMMEDIATELY

And again

They're going to have all sorts of bullshit excuses why it's fine:

"We can never trust pooky"

"He was just a VT"

"I would be sneaky about it if I was scum"

"There's no way I would openly plot to blow up Pooky and then actually do it"


This is classic refuge in audacity and every word is designed to make you think they won't do it, in fact the more brazen it is the more likely it is they get away with this shit.

Pooky super super convinced on dwlee being scum! VPB is a top townread according to his own recent post!

dwlee can you walk me through why you told scum to make me defuser so you could blow me up?

also did you think the group you were in was all town prior to today?

Uh, not sure of the context here given that pooky has never been defuser

think scum walked into that bomb session with the plan of blowing up Andres - when bomb expert is mafia its basically a strongman kill so this was planned out ahead of time.

I do think Dwlee made a good point that it doesn't make sense for them to bus Mala for cred and then openwolf a bomb explosion because now they can never endgame - unless SM is also scum and they're pulling a double bus. But even then it feels like a very shit exchange for them.

I don't think VPB makes sense as scum because blowing up Andres doesn't fit with that win condition

Okay, so VPB doesn’t make sense as scum either

I guess it makes sense if VPB is bussing SM for towncred to get another defusal tonight

This is where the VPB townread starts to get walked back

I don't think it makes sense to get cold feet on SM now because we had this same issue yesterday.

Never let VPB defuse another bomb regardless of SM flip imo.

But pooky, why does SM sacrifice herself for andres?

I don't think VPB makes sense as scum because blowing up Andres doesn't fit with that win condition

why not? he's with 2 top SRs as defusers, thinks theyboth get limmed over him. yeet 2 town, then he goes. all while having 2 partners still alive. perfect plan. unless you're his buddyand know this already

no VPB gets blown up tonight or we lim him tomm

So now we’re fully back to killing VPB. But why the fuck, if he’s scum, would scum make him defuser knowing that he’s now in the scumpool? It’s not gonna happen, and I don’t think pooky can reasonably think that. So this is essentially just saying “let’s let him live another day”

I don't get how that clears misty

Misty is now back in the suspect pool despite having been in null earlier

like if we're at town!VPB scum!misty, why wouldnt misty just let VPB defuse and become focal point of game and misyeeted?

its better for scum to have townies be misyeeted than blown up by a bomb

this seems pertinent to the discussion today – pooky fully understands why scum need to have townies reserved for mislims. But then he conflates my point about “why wouldn’t I kill dwlee who’s tunnelling me and very town?” with “why wouldn’t I put you and dwlee together and let him blow you up?” when the answer is clearly that my townflip clarifies the game and makes it harder for pooky to win

esp if VPB!Town already defused a bomb on night 1, then Misty!scum has a lot of incentive to let VPB!town defuse again and give them a NK and it creates town paranoia on VPB and a misyeet possible in the future

I think this is angling to support limming misty before dwlee/VPB – something that baltar was also trying to do, and I think it’s clear why. If misty had flipped first, it would have allowed them to argue that dwlee and VPB were

both

town, and that andres died because of the rigged bomb ability

Pooky, I think you're maf with VP. which is why I'm alive

heartbreaking

I actually included this one more because I wanted to know -- Andy, did you follow up on this?

HEAL: Mena

Worth noting this one because apparently I’m still town to pooky here

HEAL: Titus

maybe you can cheer her up in the PT

HURT: Mena

Okay, not super strong town, but you take my point

ngl this game would be better if we picked the defuser and the scum had to pick the experts

This fits into the griping about the setup being unfair/disadvantageous to scum thing I mentioned before

Mena do you think Dwlee is scum with VPBaltar?

Cuz I'm not sure what the point of this fight with you is if Baltar is flipping town here.

like the options are:

Dwlee town VPB scum, Dwlee thinks Mena is VPB's buddy
Dwlee scum VPB scum, Dwlee wants to chain Mena after VPB
Dwlee scum VPB town, Dwlee is pre-chaining to convince us that Dwlee is inno to win a 1v1?

These two posts were both good and I think read like pooky engaging with someone who he believes is town and wants to convince

I can see town Mena thinking you're scum for thinking he's scum but it's not compelling to me cuz you still need to flip Baltar scum first

A notion further supported by him talking about how he can see me as town here

notice how VP hasn’t gone back to being defuser… scum team knows he explodes if he goes back, so why wouldn’t town!vp go back to defusing???

well if VP is town he wouldn't go back to defuse either because Dwlee gets autoyeeted

But in 3912 pooky was arguing that VPB shouldn’t be limmed the previous day because he could get blown up! I don’t think there’s a significant difference between the two days, is there? Admittedly the pool was down to 50/50 by that point, but does anyone really want to argue that if baltar had been picked the night before he also wouldn’t have been blown up (maybe, maybe if it had been me/enchant/pooky but almost any other combo and it was very likely)

I think we need to flip VP just to see where we are on the defusal meter

if dude flips scum we don't defuse any bombs no matter who shows up in the PT

i dont care if catboi comes back from the dead

This is completely at odds with what pooky has argued previously about letting VPB live in order to blow him up instead

I agree with not defusing anymore unless GL flips town (or I'm the defuser o3o)

I would definitely not trust you to defuse a bomb if VP flips scum :3

Sooooo pooky is supposedly still on that dwlee scum train, or at least he’s fronting that he’s suspicious of him here

ok i've seen enough

VOTE: VP Baltar

Now follows up on the previous stuff by voting him

yea im sure scum you would be blazing away with the machine guns and making it super obvious you are scum

you have convinced me

so you're saying if you're scum

and you have successful defusals

you would shoot up this town

to make it obvious that scum defused the bomb overnight?

Pooky piling back onto VPB as scum now

just from a risk mitigation standpoint shouldn't we just flip VPB

if he's town then mafia are nowhere close to winning and we kill dwlee tomm

and if he's mafia then yah dead scum whooohoooo

More justification for it

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

This also seems off – like if we needed to know by limming baltar, shouldn’t we have limmed baltar on D4 instead of strange from pooky’s pov? Otherwise letting a defuse go through was doable but would perpetually put us into a state of “we should probably lim every defuser unless GL flips” which is, uh, exactly where we’ve ended up

does Andy!scum fake a mech clear on her scum partner Dwlee when Dwlee is already winning the 1v1

I mean you can't really think this

Okay yes, I was being dumb here and this is a fair point

whats your question

if you think vp is scum why would you risk scum getting to 3/4 defuses by letting another bomb go through

because I'm not 100% sure on VP being mafia and scum

do not win at 3 even if VP is scum

also GL's first post in the hood PT felt really townie and honest to me. He didn't really feel like he was pushing for being spared - also I don't think there's any reason for Scum!GL to really expect the three of us to townread him.

look if VPB is mafia here - we simply do not defuse any more bombs period

there is no point to take that risk.

if you want to litigate whether GL is a partner we can have that discussion here in the open thread rather than execute in a closed hood.

if VPB flips scum here...

like GL is never defusing another bomb.[no1 in their right mind would let him defuse another bomb]

I am never defusing a bomb.

If the scum really r doing 4 defusal win condition it would have to be someone extremely townread as the third partner

This seems to me like it’s meant to cast potential suspicion on future townread players like dwlee or andy

Reading back through the game, I’m now thinking scum never really were counting on the “win via 4 defusals” condition. I think they would have been happy to take it if it just happened, but I think more likely is that scum wanted it to *look* like that’s what they were doing while actually trying to get NKs and set up to win conventionally through elo, and by getting enough defusals to make town feel uncomfortable ever defusing, which in turn essentially gives maf a NK every night

Mena won't have enough rope for

Oh, this was in because I wasn’t sure of context from iso but it was talking about how I was gonna be on a rampage if VPB!town

I got your back Dlee

even if VPB flips town

Bear Bros Forever

This is bizarre given the longstanding expressed suspicion of dwlee throughout. Up to the point where, in 4443 he says that even with a VPB scumflip he wouldn’t trust dwlee

Why the change?

i dont understand how vpb is still alive r we being trolled

did he really die 10 pages ago but datisi wont vc cuz i wont give him a pagetop

Actually this is meh and irrelevant, was gonna say more posturing around the VPB lim but meh

I don't get it

you just said it's either GL/Pooky or GL/Ceph for the scum team but you're also saying that if GL flips scum then Pooky and Ceph r both town?

ok if GL/Pooky/Ceph are all town who are your scumreads then

Engaging with misty

VOTE: Mena


4 protectives with a backup protective in a game where scum dont even have 1 NK a night is yea no way.

So this is the reason for voting me initially, or at least the one that’s given

I care about what mech makes sense to be in a game because I know mod meta is absolute and needs to make sense to pass review.

I do not give a shit about whether a PLAY makes sense for a SCUM to do.

Scum do plays that DO NOT MAKE SENSE all the time.

That is part of being scum.

If scum only did plays that makes sense they would get rekt every game.

This

Ceph your defense of mena is gonna look like shit tomm prepare to die dude

Now ceph is scum for defending me – so pooky isn’t after misty at this point really, because for him it’s me and ceph

if you flip town I will make sure misty dies for you buddy

Still making that argument, me and ceph

i hope mena paid you a retainer

More etc

i hope mena paid you a retainer

feel like two posts saying maybe we should think about all the possibilities before rushing in is maybe not worthy of these posts but ok

you're only making this worse for yourself

And more

csf doesn't counterclaim as scum here that's absurd

mb you should be telling mena how to defend himself in the scum PT instead of here

You get the picture

i hope mena paid you a retainer

feel like two posts saying maybe we should think about all the possibilities before rushing in is maybe not worthy of these posts but ok

you're only making this worse for yourself

you're not going to get me killed this game scumbear

nice omgus didnt see it coming at all

Etc etc

its so covenient you scumread mena but when there's an actual chance of the dude dying suddenly you're bending over backwards to make a defense for him

Etc etc etc

i dont even know what your defense of mena is atp actually

Etc etc etc etc, odd callout given that pooky’s only expressed reason for me being scum really is my claiming a protective

there's literally no incentive for scum to be using their nightkills before VPB flips because if their nightkills go thru it literally outs VPB as a scumbag

and everything VPB said is probably just random ass anti-spew - dude knew he was on a limited timeline

i can't possibly imagine scum!CSF making 5344

that is a work of art

csf mvp

game over

lets wrap this up

im really drunk and i dont understand why misty and mena havent surrendered yet

Now it’s me and misty – why did he shift from ceph being scum with me to it being misty? And if I’m the common factor here, why not try to get me killed more?

Instead he just hops onto misty once the wagon goes up

kinda want to say fuck it and just vote mena but also feeling too cocky might not be the best play here if he actually flips town cuz I can see this shit going very sideways

I think this is prepping for my flip being the likely one but wanting to set up as he knows that he’s likely under fire next

like him casing me feels like a lot of effort for scum!him to be making if he's like doomed here

This is a good point but it’s one he that if he doesn’t make as scum then he looks worse for not acknowledging it imo

i lowkey actually do think maybe he just waves a white flag here and concedes if he's actually lone!scum which is kind of gross but he has mentioned playing against wincon on purpose multiple times in the past

Want to mention that this is again, pretty much just completely untrue

I mean do you expect scum!mena to just concede cause that's lame

kind of yes rofl

Also the notion that I would concede when I’ve conceded like one game ever and it was at the explicit request of my hydra partner

like the thing with him pushing me is.

I can totally see him actually being paranoid of me if he's like town cuz dude is fucking terrified of scum!me since I've like eaten him multiple times.

and like I don't think it actually makes sense for him to do this shit!push on me as like cornered scum cuz the odds scum!him actually flips me here is pretty fucking low and like after I flip town where the fuck is he going to go? try to get 2 more misflips?

seems like a tall fucking task ngl

Trying to discredit my read on him being scum, which is the same thing he did in his other posts earlier today

isn't that just how Enchant plays every game

that's actually a good point on scum morale lol

VOTE: Enchant

As I become less popular and continue to do my best to make it clear I’m town, he pivots to the other viable lim for today at that point

okay, so I fucked up the formatting somewhere but in my defence there's like 6000 words in there

mostly posting bc I don't have the WIM to try and actually discern the stream of consciousness read through that's inside that spoiler down into something shorter and more coherent and better formatted overall, but something something perfect something something enemy of the good, y'know?

if I was to try to summarise the main takeaways as briefly as possible it's this:

Pooky's Baltar progression is actually really,

really

bad when you look at it close up! it doesn't make any real sense and his reasons are unconvincing for why he goes from what seems like very justified suspicion, to not killing Baltar, to actively having Baltar as a top townread, to arguing that he probably needs to die but should be limmed by delusion instead of elimination, into arguing for just regular limming of him

the other thing is that he was massively suspicious of dwlee for a large part of the game, as it turns out! he's really suspicious until the day after andres dies and then he starts walking it back, but is still saying stuff like "but even if VPB!scum dwlee still shouldn't be allowed to defuse" but imo it's never really clear why, after being so convinced that VPB is town for days and that dwlee is scum, when the tide of the game is going towards a VPB lim pooky straight on over to that and just sort of... forgets about dwlee

If you could take a look at this when you have a chance, CSF

[Enchant]

Oh my fucking god

[Menalque]

I uh

Did not consider the consequences of quoting something where the tags were already broken lol

[Menalque]

Very funny that it somehow turned the text of the last post orange though

[Datisi]

fixed broken tags in 5742 and 5889.

[Menalque]

Thank you oh wise and all powerful modgod

[Menalque]

(But actually thank you, I know that sounded a little sarcastic potentially)

[Bell]

didnt andante literally claim mech info in favor of strange anyway

thats one of the reasons i'm not voting there

if you have a partner who has done NOTHING. why wouldn't you push there? you want to be ahead of the inevitable wagon to get town cred. have you seen dwlee put that much pressure on anyone else? like, I don't even recall Dwlee being a part of the mala stuff, yet many of yall are like "yeah dwlee did so much!!!" like, no... they really aren't doing much... pushing someone who's doing nothing doesn't even count...

maybe its a theory difference but i personally would be pushing like "yeah mala can die but [townie] should be today's lim"

i think especially with multiple townie options who that could be the case for like me/vp (who i've already established isn't partnered with dwlee) they'd have no reason to bus mala there

Errr what are you confused about?

people keep saying there’s a plan but not saying what it is

ceph if you thought vp scum over dwlee why would you allow the defusal to go through?

same question to pooky/titus if you agree with scum vp

wanna see more from andante titus gl

also want pooky and titus to answer my question

pooky can you answer my question

whats your question

if you think vp is scum why would you risk scum getting to 3/4 defuses by letting another bomb go through

whats your question

if you think vp is scum why would you risk scum getting to 3/4 defuses by letting another bomb go through

cause scum kills aren't going through so they have to try and win the bomb way

are you implying you think it’s pooky/gl?

Mena here has gotten highly suspicious to me, but yes!! GL was the VP partner I was thinking about. Team might just be VP/GL/Mena

in that case then it was three town as the experts for last round though

so that line of argument wrt pooky doesn’t make sense

Mena here has gotten highly suspicious to me, but yes!! GL was the VP partner I was thinking about. Team might just be VP/GL/Mena

in that case then it was three town as the experts for last round though

so that line of argument wrt pooky doesn’t make sense

ok and? town can defuse a mafia... in our bomb chat I was like "only way VP lives is if they buy the "why would I send myself to the top person SRing me" argument...

I’m not saying it’s impossible I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense for scum to nominate GL there without influence unless they were really desperate

like misty what r u even accusing me of rn

do you really think the scum team is pooky/gl/vpb

like um

if it is

how the fuck do you think either pooky or GL get another defusal done?

it’s moreso that i don’t think one of you can be scum without the other

killing titus was correct there

0-2 in [GL/Pooky/Ceph]

which leaves bell dwlee andante enchant csf mena

VOTE: GuiltyLion

if we flip this then pooky/ceph are town and we sort in the rest

i'd rank dwlee > bell > enchant/andante > csf > mena in that group probably

killing titus was correct there

0-2 in [GL/Pooky/Ceph]

which leaves bell dwlee andante enchant csf mena

VOTE: GuiltyLion

if we flip this then pooky/ceph are town and we sort in the rest

i'd rank dwlee > bell > enchant/andante > csf > mena in that group probably

Why GL/Pooky/Ceph over Menalque

moreso risk/reward

when i say 0-2 i mean it's either GL/Pooky, GL/Ceph, or none of them

if gl is town we know scum are only at 2 and can make decisions on the bombs

if gl is scum we know scum are at 3 and can react accordingly

plus we get info on pooky/ceph

Why are Ceph and or Pooky only scum with GL?

scum wouldn't send scum!gl to a group of three town bombers

and scum!pooky/ceph would take the chance to justify an explosion on town!gl

What makes you so confident that pooky/ceph would explode gl if given the chance? Especially because they could set him up to be mislimmed later with this line of thought.

cuz then unless it's exactly pooky/ceph then they just send their other partner in and try to get to 3

it's not a lock but it feels more likely that way

I'd agree with the "not having time" excuse seeming odd.. I saw no situation in which we should've kept Titus alive.. like what, keep her here just to yeet her today?? it's very odd for scum to just give us Titus like that, means the poe that's mostly agreed upon is likely wrong.. but I'm down with yeeting Mistyx today, also,

Titus was very confident on Mistyx maf

VOTE: Mistyx

this is so incredibly far from true

titus wanted me dead for VCA that was all

I'd agree with the "not having time" excuse seeming odd.. I saw no situation in which we should've kept Titus alive.. like what, keep her here just to yeet her today?? it's very odd for scum to just give us Titus like that, means the poe that's mostly agreed upon is likely wrong.. but I'm down with yeeting Mistyx today, also,

Titus was very confident on Mistyx maf

VOTE: Mistyx

this is so incredibly far from true

titus wanted me dead for VCA that was all

Hey... welcome to the pt last night... I am only maf if you are, and titus is 99% sure you are maf!!!

But I also just SR you in general so like it works,

like, town should think about this. maf threw titus in bomb pt cause scum know titus would go boom. why not giive us mistyx? scum was just going for a boom, and we all KNOW mist would go boom, but instead mist has been SRed all game and hasn't been defuser once, I do think this is scum indicative. it would be one think if scum was throwing TRs in to defuse the bomb, but they're not, I think scum is literally confirming Mistyx to be maf based on their defuser choices

yeah bc titus is hard to kill at day and i am incredibly easy to kill during the day

like read vp's iso he kept trying to deflect attention at me because i'm easy to kill

VOTE: CSF

comparing role power think this is more likely a hit

can we just lim misty and let the prot claims sort themselves out tonight? like, we all agree Misty is maf, so we just lim misty. that easy

this is generally a sign that this is what scum want

it’s prob CSF/andante

i think andante getting upset over the strange elim then walking their claim back doesn’t really line up at all

[Bell]

-scum andante points.

[Bell]

At work but it’s dead this week due to testing and shortened days.

[Bell]

Leaves: Enchant, Mena, pooky.