Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[butterchurn]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

[MonkeyMan576]

How many scum on that bnuuy wagon?l

[catboi]

just voting someone because they "could" be scum to spark discussion?

this is totally fine to do on Day 1.

I've been trying to stay out of Norwee vs Catboi, but my main thing right now is I believe Catboi's taking advantage of Norwegian having a gut scum read on Catboi, and Norwegian can't explain it because it's a gut read.

Norwegian clearly brought up they'd be willing to vote Catboi earlier after I did, then did, which I felt was pretty natural and automatically showed that Norwegian had a least some suspicion on Catboi, and Catboi keeps minimizing Norwegian's responses and grabbing things like that, and pinpointing them.

Oh one more thing. I thought Catboi's slightly flustered response to be wagoned very early in the game was a bit suspicious. Because by that point it could easily be chalked up to RVS, but they seemed genuinely worried. Which felt a bit like scum that was overanalyzing and trying harder to defend themselves than town!them would do.

I get flustered in response to being pressured as town. Moreso than in response to being wagoned as scum, even. Anyone who's played with me can confirm this.

[catboi]

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

Where are you getting this from? First game had 7 scum in it with a similar number of players.

'The faction sizes are 14:4:4:1'
In Post 1

Oh, shows me for being lazy and not reading the OP because I assumed it would mostly be like last time (where faction sizes weren't publicly disclosed).

Catboi, you can't get town points for missing this when it has already been discussed in the

We suspect that you are one of the 9 anti-town players in this game.

What makes you say there's 9 anti-town?

Titus

this would be lowkey the funniest slip I've ever seen lmao

I missed that at the time it was mentioned.

But it's not like I'm not asking you to clear me off it. That would be dumb.

[Well Done]

VOTE: Catboi

Bnuuy wagon is boring.

I retract my prior "hmmmmmmm"

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

[The Keeper]

Imagine WereMaf. Wolf with Gun.

What a Grand Idea...

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

[catboi]

I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page

Where are you getting this from? First game had 7 scum in it with a similar number of players.

The original game was a 22 player game, split 3:3:1:15

This run of the game is a 23 player game, split 4:4:1:14

Which is a hell of a swing from Ceph to compensate for the stomp of last game. Both scum teams gained +1 scum and we lost -1 town.

each scumteam is only allowed to kill 2 nights out of each 3. If a team submits kills nights 1 and 2, they may not kill night 3, and so on.

Says they have gated nightkills though? That limits the power a bit.

Actually, mastina's beloved princess role makes a lot more sense with those rules - normally the beloved princess role sucks because it essentially grants mafia an extra free nightkill. But if it's here, that doesn't happen, even if they kill twice the night night they won't be able to. Design-wise that makes a lot more sense and means the role isn't completely implausible.

[catboi]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

[Flavor Leaf]

how many times has he town read scum you?

[Well Done]

Well Done has majorly fell off.

I wanna see their take on me
That’s one of very few slots that should know who I am already

I for one have no idea who you are. If Dunn does, he has not shared it with me

[Klick]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

Like you wouldn't say that as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

this is one of the posts I scum read the most. They went after WallFlower because it was the best one on their wagon to make a case against.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's possible cat and flower are scum.l

[butterchurn]

Catboi Cover Crew:

Menalque
Butterchurn
Nashville

i feel like there was one more....

You are scum reading them?

Nah, I'd actually say the majority of them are town, or at least not aligned with Cat, but I don't think all of them are town.

One is probably a Catboi partner, but I do need to find the fourth one that I'm forgetting.

The fourth that you mentioned earlier is Malcolm. I'm not really sure if I belong in that group, from my perspective at least, but I guess I can see how you would put me in there. I for the most part found your reasoning on catboi to be fairly compelling, my hesitancy comes from the fact that by my own read of his posts, he looks town. For some background, in my previous game with him, I thought he was town for a while, and then got very paranoid when it came to ELO and nearly voted him, but eventually came back around to be convinced that he was town. It's a very different context since this is a 23 player game and that was a 9 player Newbie, but I do think it's believable that Tracer, as catboi suggested, could have had some of that same paranoia. I don't know if yours quite qualifies, but a few of your posts, like 1283, do have a bit of that feeling, like you're trying to find reasons for why he could be suspicious because you're worried about the possibility. But then... some of the reasons do seem valid. I don't know.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

Like you wouldn't say that as scum.

im more calling out the type of meta and assurance in Menalque Catboi's using when they're omitting other aspects to go in their favor.

That line has come directly out of my mouth before as scum who's got a townie in their pocket.

Defense against that? ^ "We're not the same."

sure, doesn't mean that there aren't some general scum defenses, it's about how the tool is used that can be different there.

[Klick]

To expand: I think catboi is scumhunting generally in 1208, using tactics that specifically don't work because this game is multiball. Catboi doesn't seem fully conscious of the fact that scum are trying to scumhunt in this game, and that's consistent with his lack of care to other aspects of the setup. I think this is a really weird mindset for catboi!scum to be in.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's possible cat and flower are scum.l

Yeah, I did talk about the potential of a MvW scenario.

[catboi]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

He hard guiltied me in one of the games I lost last year, I would've been primed to go the distance if he hadn't re-evaluated on me. I took a gamble that he wouldn't investigate me and lost. Was scum with me in my last game where I basically sobbed and AtE'd my way out of pressure all game.

[Flavor Leaf]

To expand: I think catboi is scumhunting generally in 1208, using tactics that specifically don't work because this game is multiball. Catboi doesn't seem fully conscious of the fact that scum are trying to scumhunt in this game, and that's consistent with his lack of care to other aspects of the setup. I think this is a really weird mindset for catboi!scum to be in.

i think it's a mindset they're in because they're scum.

Catboi town would be more conscious of it.

Klick, if you're coming from a town perspective here, you're very aware of that tactic and whatnot, correct?

That's the difference here.

Catboi is not coming from that town pov here.

[Well Done]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

I think that that might be catboi's scummiest post

[Well Done]

Spoiler:

Why are people complaining about the number of pages (and also complaining about people complaining about the number of pages) and not the fact that there seems to be a number of posts dedicated to arguing what “mafia miller” means?

Does it get any better?

I have to say I did not expect anyone to answer my question in good faith. Y’all are the best. <3

Now I’m up to the BP stuff and it seems like we’re still talking about it but I’m probably going to be with Menalque on this one.

That was a different page

I keep trying to read through the last 10 or so pages but right now my eyes glaze over and I keep forgetting what it is I'm even doing (I am quite tired rn!!) I do have some thoughts, such as being okay with the Malcolm wagon, but also that Malcolm's response to it will be telling. I also agree with catboi re: the MonkeyMan wagon whilst also remaining suspicious of catboi (yes, I cannot seem to just let it go) so that's probably going to need some sorting out at some point, but right right now that's just too complex a thought so it will just be staying there as mafia soup in my mind.

I think Malcolm is town

do you actually know that or is this just a hypothetical of if you told me that?

The first.

okay second question: is this like

knowing

knowledge, or "I really don't think it sounds like koba" knowledge?

I think Malcolm is town

yeah, malc is old news, you should hop on the hot new bnuuy wagon!

I was indeed a bit disappointed when I caught up and realised that my opinion was not that ~different~ anymore.

I still think catboi is scum though. I have a theory regarding their play that I want to sit a bit on before talking about because I need more of a sample size, but it reassures me that Tracer appears to be thinking similarly.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Can you elaborate

gut read, but I have nothing to trust except my gut this game

why is that specific to this game?

my scum list currently is:

Catboi
Mena
Flavor Leaf

I had 3 other scumreads but I forgot them because shit for memory

probably means they weren't worth remembering

I like those three though. Catboi is the only real scumread for me but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What if I'm the townie and Tracer is just sheeping me, huh?

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

saying that papa leaf is not good at scum is just

sort of baffling

this post is odd given the not-so-serious manner of Tracer's post

but Mena and FL are explicitly not-townreads.

oh, cool, could you expand pls?

What is there to expand on? I don't think anything you've done so far is particularly town-indicative. Do you disagree?

I mean, a bit, given that you and I have never played before

I think I'm being fairly pro-active about pushing the game forward so far having led/banded together support for not one but two wagons, and taken a hand in steering it away from boring-as-shit mechtalk

plus people who have never played with me before tend to townlean me at least when I'm being mostly clear about why I think what I think and not deliberately and arse-ily evasive so it was kinda weird to see you call me out as an "explicit non-townread"

That sort of stuff all seems like things you would do as scum in an effort to be read as town though?

I do want to make clear that even though I don't townread you, I have enjoyed your posts and I agree that it feels like you have had a positive impact on the gamestate. But I'm not really sure that you would play differently as scum.

and he should've jumped you for it

but he didn't

so probly scum together

Do you think Menalque's posting re: you having a problem with him was +town?

I agree that Catboi's play has been very ~off~, but I'm not as sure that they're scum together.

Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.

Therefore

Flavor Leaf is scum

I don't think this is alignment-indicative tbh

lol

I am not sure on Tracer's alignment here, but a few of us were in a Micro Normal where I know at least in my case I let a negative perception of Tracer wrongly influence a scumread there.

I am seeing some similarities in read leaps and responses here which make me hesitant to see Tracer as scum, especially since there are not enough people here who played the micro game for playing in the same way to be worth it.

PEdit: I've changed my mind. I have a cautious townread on Tracer.

I can't wait for Town Paragon Flavor Leaf to show up on Day 4 with the solution

Day 3?

I think you’re all good as town and as scum.

Meanwhile I have a 0% win rate on this site and I think you should sheep me on catboi

Okay, this is clearly personal, and regardless of your alignment, I think you should stop.

I pushed mena/catboi as a team and voted catboi

mena's been trying to make this shit personal for ???? reasons

I've been trying to get him to explain his townread of catboi

he continues not to.

so like lol sure

keep pretending we're the same

we're not.

I think if you come back to the thread later and read your own posts with a level head you will see that you were the one taking shots at people and making things personal and generally being antagonistic. But you probably already know that, and this was probably intentional to cause chaos and rile things up, so it probably doesn't matter what I say anyway.

I think it’s a tempting idea to think that someone is intentionally causing chaos like this, but I have wrongly thought this about Tracer before.

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but

nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

And herein lies one of the issues

Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.

Hmm.
This kinda makes me townread catboi.

this is one of the posts I scum read the most. They went after WallFlower because it was the best one on their wagon to make a case against.

huh.

same thought