Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[catboi]

Yep, your opinion is noted, but the catboi wagon is the most pro town.

oh for sure man

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Regardless of whether you/Klick are scum together or not, I think that you presented an invalid reason for why you/Klick cannot be scum together, claiming my theory to be dumb as a result.

On an unrelated note, I didn’t like the implication that if Klick were your scumbuddy he wouldn’t have the autonomy to do something like vote for you without it being your command, but that’s just a separate pet peeve sort of thing.

To elaborate: it is not just "lol scum RVS distancing" (though that tell is

so old

it can probably legally buy alcohol and is almost never accurate) but that klick made a serious effort tostart a wagon on me and made a case on me to the point it would amount to an intentional throw if scum

the way you are talking about this feels more like you just

want

it to be true rather than whether you've considered if it's

likely

I don't think this is as clearing as you're making it out to be tbh

[butterchurn]

actually on second thought butter doesnt need to be aligned with catboi. i'm reading thru the game I have and they tend to have TMI issues.

I don't really buy that. I would agree that was a key issue with my dayplay in that scum game. Perhaps the most memorable thing, even, although Klick also accurately said that I seemed to be focused more on convincing people and less on analyzing things, or something like that. The point is, though, that I don't believe that you were originally reminded of that game upon seeing my play, and then went back and read it and noticed one of the most surface-level things about it, and that changed your mind. You also never explained what about this game reminded you of that game. The fact that you seem to have gone back searching for something to substantiate that, only to find that it didn't actually match at all, makes me think the original read was fabricated.

[catboi]

Regardless of whether you/Klick are scum together or not, I think that you presented an invalid reason for why you/Klick cannot be scum together, claiming my theory to be dumb as a result.

On an unrelated note, I didn’t like the implication that if Klick were your scumbuddy he wouldn’t have the autonomy to do something like vote for you without it being your command, but that’s just a separate pet peeve sort of thing.

To elaborate: it is not just "lol scum RVS distancing" (though that tell is

so old

it can probably legally buy alcohol and is almost never accurate) but that klick made a serious effort tostart a wagon on me and made a case on me to the point it would amount to an intentional throw if scum

the way you are talking about this feels more like you just

want

it to be true rather than whether you've considered if it's

likely

I don't think this is as clearing as you're making it out to be tbh

i just tend to get annoyed when people suggest really dumb theories

[MonkeyMan576]

Regardless of whether you/Klick are scum together or not, I think that you presented an invalid reason for why you/Klick cannot be scum together, claiming my theory to be dumb as a result.

On an unrelated note, I didn’t like the implication that if Klick were your scumbuddy he wouldn’t have the autonomy to do something like vote for you without it being your command, but that’s just a separate pet peeve sort of thing.

To elaborate: it is not just "lol scum RVS distancing" (though that tell is

so old

it can probably legally buy alcohol and is almost never accurate) but that klick made a serious effort tostart a wagon on me and made a case on me to the point it would amount to an intentional throw if scum

the way you are talking about this feels more like you just

want

it to be true rather than whether you've considered if it's

likely

I don't think this is as clearing as you're making it out to be tbh

i just tend to get annoyed when people suggest really dumb theories

Meaning, he gets annoyed when scumread as scum.

[catboi]

Regardless of whether you/Klick are scum together or not, I think that you presented an invalid reason for why you/Klick cannot be scum together, claiming my theory to be dumb as a result.

On an unrelated note, I didn’t like the implication that if Klick were your scumbuddy he wouldn’t have the autonomy to do something like vote for you without it being your command, but that’s just a separate pet peeve sort of thing.

To elaborate: it is not just "lol scum RVS distancing" (though that tell is

so old

it can probably legally buy alcohol and is almost never accurate) but that klick made a serious effort tostart a wagon on me and made a case on me to the point it would amount to an intentional throw if scum

the way you are talking about this feels more like you just

want

it to be true rather than whether you've considered if it's

likely

I don't think this is as clearing as you're making it out to be tbh

i just tend to get annoyed when people suggest really dumb theories

Meaning, he gets annoyed when scumread as scum.

where as town, I love being scumread!

[MonkeyMan576]

Regardless of whether you/Klick are scum together or not, I think that you presented an invalid reason for why you/Klick cannot be scum together, claiming my theory to be dumb as a result.

On an unrelated note, I didn’t like the implication that if Klick were your scumbuddy he wouldn’t have the autonomy to do something like vote for you without it being your command, but that’s just a separate pet peeve sort of thing.

To elaborate: it is not just "lol scum RVS distancing" (though that tell is

so old

it can probably legally buy alcohol and is almost never accurate) but that klick made a serious effort tostart a wagon on me and made a case on me to the point it would amount to an intentional throw if scum

the way you are talking about this feels more like you just

want

it to be true rather than whether you've considered if it's

likely

I don't think this is as clearing as you're making it out to be tbh

i just tend to get annoyed when people suggest really dumb theories

Meaning, he gets annoyed when scumread as scum.

where as town, I love being scumread!

noted.

[butterchurn]

SCP how exactly are you reading ND?

Spoiler:

Bnuuy is a lazy wagon that will probably go through.

Stand by they're probably town.

Nashville wagon is even lazier - you cant eat your cake and have it too

So FL in our monastery claimed to be in a masonry - it is entirely possible he is a malefactor here and the play lines up with that theory - so I will likely be ignoring the slot going forward unless they deliver a scum.
They also contradicted their claim of 3 hoods at the start saying he does not have another hood.

If they try to claim anything more than that what is claimed from them - do not counterclaim it.


I believe their push to go for active posters who, I am currently townreading, is actively trying to push scum agenda but I am not sure as its day 1 and I could be wrong but I wanted to float the theory so people don't just let this happen and are not aware of the potential variables in play here.

I think I am now more comfortable with a Nashville wagon -> however I want them to come back and post before I commit.

I am mainly otherwise looking at : butterchurn, bunny, klick, tictac

btw @Malcom, how do you feel about tictac wolf?

butter/tictac/klick/bunny - ww
enchant/mena/cass/catboi - maf

this is what i reached in the monastery. mena could swap out for one of my other PoE reads - I think they are most likely malefactor.

Don't forget this one:

ok after some thought, here is a GtH list of people I think could potentially contain all scum:

tictac
butterchurn
bunny
klick
menalque
enchant
cass
nashville
csf

I think it's notable that the lists here and in 2746 are the same names, except Nashville gets replaced with catboi. SCP's posting seemed to indicate that Flavor Leaf had changed their mind on catboi (remember, they originally had catboi as a townread), and I would expect that read change to alter some of their other reads, since they are relying a lot on associatives and preflips. It didn't.

[catboi]

butter - I see an implication that you have catboi as a townread in recentish posts but you have not stated it. What IS your read on catboi?

I had catboi as a townread early, found Flavor's initial case compelling, and found catboi's response to some of Flavor's casing less than compelling. However, I struggle with the read as when I read catboi's posts, there's a lot of them where it just feels like a genuine town reaction. I know that he's a strong scum player and likely is good at creating that sort of reaction, so I should be careful to use that sort of gutread as a basis. I also disagree with some of his pushes, such as the ones on Norwegianboy and Wallflower. I would say that at this point I have him as slightly leaning scum, but not as strongly as most of my other scumreads.

I should address this: Why exactly do you have me as leaning scum now? Because you disagree with some of my scumreads?

[SCP 682]

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

Ok. Describe why Mena is town here then - because the lack of an edge is blatant and theyre waffly as fuck.

[SCP 682]

butter is angling to place a vote on me btw - its being telegraphed in trying to find things that are "scummy looking" that are just normal town progression and framing it as scum.

Trying to call me a liar for how I reached my reads is quite frankly the most blatant way they've pushed the idea that I am scum here without explicitly stating it.

Yes of course I see something that reminds me of something else and I later on go and verify taht for myself because I'm not going to trust the human brain to 100% remember shit.

There is a lot of putting words into my mouth that don't exist - trying to imply things that I directly already said were not true such as claiming my catboi read shifted due to FL.

Which in a multiball is ridiculous -> I'm going to push legitimate scumreads as scum. Butter is trying to accuse me of TMI in a place where TMI is not applicable because they are stuck in a singleball scum mindset.

I'm frankly not good at casing people but I know blatant when I see it and butter has oozed scum since I read their ISO.

[butterchurn]

butter - I see an implication that you have catboi as a townread in recentish posts but you have not stated it. What IS your read on catboi?

I had catboi as a townread early, found Flavor's initial case compelling, and found catboi's response to some of Flavor's casing less than compelling. However, I struggle with the read as when I read catboi's posts, there's a lot of them where it just feels like a genuine town reaction. I know that he's a strong scum player and likely is good at creating that sort of reaction, so I should be careful to use that sort of gutread as a basis. I also disagree with some of his pushes, such as the ones on Norwegianboy and Wallflower. I would say that at this point I have him as slightly leaning scum, but not as strongly as most of my other scumreads.

I should address this: Why exactly do you have me as leaning scum now? Because you disagree with some of my scumreads?

It's not exactly that I disagree with the reads, it's more that I found the pushes on them to be suspicious, especially the one on Wallflower. A lot of your reactions have felt genuine, but some of the ones in response to her feel forced. And as explained in 2462, I felt like your case on Flavor Leaf was too focused on how Flavor Leaf was capable of doing certain things as scum, or how there was a possible scum motivation behind his actions, but not about why those actions are

more likely

to come from him if he's scum. With most people, I wouldn't find that subtle difference in a case to be suspicious, but I've played with you before and I know that is a sticking point for you. It's something that I would expect you to be thinking about, especially when looking at a strong player like Flavor Leaf, but perhaps not something that you would care to emphasize if your only goal was to convince others. I also found your response to my thoughts to be rather poor and not at all how I would expect you to respond as town. In the grand scheme of things, these reasons are not terribly strong. I don't feel like I have a terribly strong read on you. If I were sorting into town, null, and scum, I'd probably put you in null. But if I were sorting into town, nulltown, nullscum, and scum, I'd put you in nullscum.

[SCP 682]

Idk there are so many variables in a game this large and so many scum that it is hard to like articulate specific tells in a d1 in a way that makes sense.

but like

butter is a hit for sure

their reaction to what I'm doing is blatantly motivated in a way that is pro scum


very chainsawy behavior with catboi.

[catboi]

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

Ok. Describe why Mena is town here then - because the lack of an edge is blatant and theyre waffly as fuck.

I don't think him "playing with an edge" is a requirement for his towngame based n recent experience, he has good energy, read his posts and mostly go "hm yeah he's analysing the game and trying to figure things out", his reads are moving around. I mean that's a bullshit answer that ultimately boils down to "vibes" but given he spent most of PYP being a limp noodle (sorry) in general I think his enthusiasm for being town here is clear and the fact that he's maintaining his engagement even with the thread picking up town-indicative for him.

Where do you see him being "waffly"?

[Flavor Leaf]

Theory of ButterScum trying to get you off of Catboi and onto them instead.

It is weird. I just don't see ButterScum doing this without Catboi being scum. If Catboi isn't scum, there's no reason for them angle towards you.

[catboi]

Hey SCP, mind telling me how I'm being "too narrow"???

I already discarded that part. I jumped the gun but it overall doesn't override the tonal/instigatory vibe I get from you. I feel your thread presence is calculated in a way that is scum motivated.

now you're just shifting reasons again, if you felt it was off why not just say that? Why does my reads list look like I'm hunting for the other team exactly?

Also want an answer to this!

[Flavor Leaf]

I felt like your case on Flavor Leaf was too focused on how Flavor Leaf was capable of doing certain things as scum, or how there was a possible scum motivation behind his actions, but not about why those actions are more likely to come from him if he's scum.

This is funny because it's the exact thing Catboi did.

[SCP 682]

You have not played with me before.

[Flavor Leaf]

butter - I see an implication that you have catboi as a townread in recentish posts but you have not stated it. What IS your read on catboi?

I had catboi as a townread early, found Flavor's initial case compelling, and found catboi's response to some of Flavor's casing less than compelling. However, I struggle with the read as when I read catboi's posts, there's a lot of them where it just feels like a genuine town reaction. I know that he's a strong scum player and likely is good at creating that sort of reaction, so I should be careful to use that sort of gutread as a basis. I also disagree with some of his pushes, such as the ones on Norwegianboy and Wallflower. I would say that at this point I have him as slightly leaning scum, but not as strongly as most of my other scumreads.

I should address this: Why exactly do you have me as leaning scum now? Because you disagree with some of my scumreads?

It's not exactly that I disagree with the reads, it's more that I found the pushes on them to be suspicious, especially the one on Wallflower. A lot of your reactions have felt genuine, but some of the ones in response to her feel forced. And as explained in 2462, I felt like your case on Flavor Leaf was too focused on how Flavor Leaf was capable of doing certain things as scum, or how there was a possible scum motivation behind his actions, but not about why those actions are

more likely

to come from him if he's scum. With most people, I wouldn't find that subtle difference in a case to be suspicious, but I've played with you before and I know that is a sticking point for you. It's something that I would expect you to be thinking about, especially when looking at a strong player like Flavor Leaf, but perhaps not something that you would care to emphasize if your only goal was to convince others. I also found your response to my thoughts to be rather poor and not at all how I would expect you to respond as town. In the grand scheme of things, these reasons are not terribly strong. I don't feel like I have a terribly strong read on you. If I were sorting into town, null, and scum, I'd probably put you in null. But if I were sorting into town, nulltown, nullscum, and scum, I'd put you in nullscum.

Oh, I thought you were talking to SPC, my bad.

[SCP 682]

Hey SCP, mind telling me how I'm being "too narrow"???

I already discarded that part. I jumped the gun but it overall doesn't override the tonal/instigatory vibe I get from you. I feel your thread presence is calculated in a way that is scum motivated.

now you're just shifting reasons again, if you felt it was off why not just say that? Why does my reads list look like I'm hunting for the other team exactly?

Also want an answer to this!

the readslist thing is a stretch bc of how my reads are and how I have the teams lined up in my head right now where I feel you have the half of the scum caught that I believe are unaligned with you for the most part.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have not played with me before.

lol, you thought the same thing

[butterchurn]

butter is angling to place a vote on me btw - its being telegraphed in trying to find things that are "scummy looking" that are just normal town progression and framing it as scum.

Trying to call me a liar for how I reached my reads is quite frankly the most blatant way they've pushed the idea that I am scum here without explicitly stating it.

Yes of course I see something that reminds me of something else and I later on go and verify taht for myself because I'm not going to trust the human brain to 100% remember shit.

There is a lot of putting words into my mouth that don't exist - trying to imply things that I directly already said were not true such as claiming my catboi read shifted due to FL.

Which in a multiball is ridiculous -> I'm going to push legitimate scumreads as scum. Butter is trying to accuse me of TMI in a place where TMI is not applicable because they are stuck in a singleball scum mindset.

I'm frankly not good at casing people but I know blatant when I see it and butter has oozed scum since I read their ISO.

I'm not planning to place a vote on you at this time. Starting a wagon on you at this point doesn't seem beneficial or likely to go anywhere. I still prefer a Nashville Dreams elimination. I do scumread you, and that's not new. I scumread Tracer Bullet as well. Don't act like you've caught onto some plan, I think my reads have been fairly clear, and you have done nothing to improve my read on your slot. You still haven't said what in my ISO you found scummy. You seem like the type of player who will spam the thread with new points to drown out any legitimate criticism. I never accused you of TMI either, so your point about me putting words in your mouth is ironic.

[SCP 682]

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

Ok. Describe why Mena is town here then - because the lack of an edge is blatant and theyre waffly as fuck.

I don't think him "playing with an edge" is a requirement for his towngame based n recent experience, he has good energy, read his posts and mostly go "hm yeah he's analysing the game and trying to figure things out", his reads are moving around. I mean that's a bullshit answer that ultimately boils down to "vibes" but given he spent most of PYP being a limp noodle (sorry) in general I think his enthusiasm for being town here is clear and the fact that he's maintaining his engagement even with the thread picking up town-indicative for him.

Where do you see him being "waffly"?

probably used that word wrong I think I meant to say like its very wishy washy tone not like waffling on opinions specifically.

like i dont feel mena is solving in the way I see town mena solves. like he doesnt even have a person he is "tunneling"? and its a game with 9 scum? cmon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catboi's protecting his defender.

I don't think Catboi-Menalque are aligned, but both of their reads on each other just make it absolutely not T-T.

[SCP 682]

butter is angling to place a vote on me btw - its being telegraphed in trying to find things that are "scummy looking" that are just normal town progression and framing it as scum.

Trying to call me a liar for how I reached my reads is quite frankly the most blatant way they've pushed the idea that I am scum here without explicitly stating it.

Yes of course I see something that reminds me of something else and I later on go and verify taht for myself because I'm not going to trust the human brain to 100% remember shit.

There is a lot of putting words into my mouth that don't exist - trying to imply things that I directly already said were not true such as claiming my catboi read shifted due to FL.

Which in a multiball is ridiculous -> I'm going to push legitimate scumreads as scum. Butter is trying to accuse me of TMI in a place where TMI is not applicable because they are stuck in a singleball scum mindset.

I'm frankly not good at casing people but I know blatant when I see it and butter has oozed scum since I read their ISO.

I'm not planning to place a vote on you at this time. Starting a wagon on you at this point doesn't seem beneficial or likely to go anywhere. I still prefer a Nashville Dreams elimination. I do scumread you, and that's not new. I scumread Tracer Bullet as well. Don't act like you've caught onto some plan, I think my reads have been fairly clear, and you have done nothing to improve my read on your slot. You still haven't said what in my ISO you found scummy. You seem like the type of player who will spam the thread with new points to drown out any legitimate criticism. I never accused you of TMI either, so your point about me putting words in your mouth is ironic.

you arent trying to sort me rofl.