Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[humaneatingmonkey]

I now wonder how much of this game is just the town cannibalizing each other meanwhile scum just ride out the waves trying to stoke that fire.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm finding it hard to believe your claim. You have also sat on my slot for all of the game. Do you understand how hard it is for me to see you as town here?

I'll ISO you later.

My read on you has been incredibly consistent though. I TR'd Flavor D1 and thought your read on them and eventual pullback looked really bad. You've now hammered two townies, who I personally - as town - thought were blatant town once they were cased properly. From that POV, can you not see why I scumread you as well? Honestly, I really strongly SR you and Kitty, but I'm still unsure if you can both be teammates, partially because I doubt I have the game entirely solved, but I'm unsure if Math works either, from that POV I'm trying to piece together the missing link, but if you are genuinely town I'm willing to work with you here to solve and I ask that you look at my case properly and give it full consideration.

[MalcolmTucker]

HEM has now opportunistically hammered two townies

You keep painting it like that. Both slots I scumread, and both slots were wagons town wanted. Not hammering Italiano there would have likely lead the town towards my wagon. Would you say JV was scum for being in the same wagons as I am? Do you not think I'm good enough to distance from these town flips if I'm scum?

Possibly, but if you're scum and you're confident you and flip me here, and if you have a partner who has stayed more concealed, I don't think it's beyond scum to go all-out here and try to force it down to a 3v2, which likely ends up being a 2v1 I'd imagine presuming scum is nailed next turn. It's not as if you couldn't have tried to talk your way out of being voted out, you seemed like the prime lim at the start of D3 but managed to avoid it.

Again, look at my perspective on this being town - I know that if I am eliminated it is down to 3v2 and that scum will have managed to manipulate the elimination of a claimed role player, which at this stage is quite fucking impressive even if it's immensely, immensely frustrating for me all the same. When I know that's what is happening here I am clearly aware scum are playing a bold and attacking game to try and force a win quickly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

[humaneatingmonkey]

Again, look at my perspective on this being town - I know that if I am eliminated it is down to 3v2 and that scum will have managed to manipulate the elimination of a claimed role player, which at this stage is quite fucking impressive even if it's immensely, immensely frustrating for me all the same. When I know that's what is happening here I am clearly aware scum are playing a bold and attacking game to try and force a win quickly.

See I think this here is a narrative you would have come up with to avoid an elim if you're scum here — that's why you claimed simple jailkeeper.

while we're on the topic, tell me how your role fits in with the flips

[MalcolmTucker]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

I'll go with Kitty first. My case on Kitty - as it has been from the start - is that they have consistently had very similar scum reads on townies in a way that is incredibly convenient in helping them to look like town. If scum, they have consistently been looking for whenever a townie does something contradictory or illogical and used that as an immediate reason to push them.

For example, they voted Scorpious on D1 and suspected them for staying on Koopa after they claimed a role. I pointed out this was an illogical move from Scorpious and more likely to have come from town who just didn't like Koopa's style and wasn't trying too hard. But I get it - this thing happens and it's possible to have incorrect reads every so often.

But they then did the exact same thing with Italiano - and after N3 ended immediately justified their incorrect read again by pointing out that Italiano had sat on NK15 after they claimed. But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

I jailed Kitty D1/D2 but in retrospect I think it's likely they passed the kill over onto someone else. Which is the main thing making me doubt you, or that Math is the definite partner here, given I jailed Math N3, because in such a situation Kitty has been perhaps passing the kill over to someone else who's been less suspected in terms of reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

at some point scum ideally need to assert some control of the game

who has control of the game?

[MalcolmTucker]

Again, look at my perspective on this being town - I know that if I am eliminated it is down to 3v2 and that scum will have managed to manipulate the elimination of a claimed role player, which at this stage is quite fucking impressive even if it's immensely, immensely frustrating for me all the same. When I know that's what is happening here I am clearly aware scum are playing a bold and attacking game to try and force a win quickly.

See I think this here is a narrative you would have come up with to avoid an elim if you're scum here — that's why you claimed simple jailkeeper.

while we're on the topic, tell me how your role fits in with the flips

Honestly? I don't know. I didn't write the rules for this game; I have no idea how it's all been configured. All I ultimately know is what was given in my role PM when I started playing. I genuinely don't have that much knowledge of the role (not something that was used playing in-person) and so wouldn't have the confidence to claim it as scum without my case falling apart completely.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

I'll go with Kitty first. My case on Kitty - as it has been from the start - is that they have consistently had very similar scum reads on townies in a way that is incredibly convenient in helping them to look like town. If scum, they have consistently been looking for whenever a townie does something contradictory or illogical and used that as an immediate reason to push them.

For example, they voted Scorpious on D1 and suspected them for staying on Koopa after they claimed a role. I pointed out this was an illogical move from Scorpious and more likely to have come from town who just didn't like Koopa's style and wasn't trying too hard. But I get it - this thing happens and it's possible to have incorrect reads every so often.

But they then did the exact same thing with Italiano - and after N3 ended immediately justified their incorrect read again by pointing out that Italiano had sat on NK15 after they claimed. But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

I jailed Kitty D1/D2 but in retrospect I think it's likely they passed the kill over onto someone else. Which is the main thing making me doubt you, or that Math is the definite partner here, given I jailed Math N3, because in such a situation Kitty has been perhaps passing the kill over to someone else who's been less suspected in terms of reads.

Kitty could be scum PR who wouldn't have been affected by your jailing

[MalcolmTucker]

at some point scum ideally need to assert some control of the game

who has control of the game?

Currently from my POV scum have control of the game - if I am eliminated it will be 3v2 with another role player gone.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

I'll go with Kitty first. My case on Kitty - as it has been from the start - is that they have consistently had very similar scum reads on townies in a way that is incredibly convenient in helping them to look like town. If scum, they have consistently been looking for whenever a townie does something contradictory or illogical and used that as an immediate reason to push them.

For example, they voted Scorpious on D1 and suspected them for staying on Koopa after they claimed a role. I pointed out this was an illogical move from Scorpious and more likely to have come from town who just didn't like Koopa's style and wasn't trying too hard. But I get it - this thing happens and it's possible to have incorrect reads every so often.

But they then did the exact same thing with Italiano - and after N3 ended immediately justified their incorrect read again by pointing out that Italiano had sat on NK15 after they claimed. But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

I jailed Kitty D1/D2 but in retrospect I think it's likely they passed the kill over onto someone else. Which is the main thing making me doubt you, or that Math is the definite partner here, given I jailed Math N3, because in such a situation Kitty has been perhaps passing the kill over to someone else who's been less suspected in terms of reads.

Kitty could be scum PR who wouldn't have been affected by your jailing

Possibly yes, again I'm not too certain on the mechanics of certain roles because I'm relatively inexperienced and obviously don't know what mafia has to work with.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes, but WHO? who is the scum who has control of the game?

[MalcolmTucker]

Although you've just made a perfect point for me being town here - if I was making a proper false claim here I'd likely assert myself Kitty was potentially a PR mafia player which would justify nothing working on them. I've not done that because it's genuinely not something I thought of or considered at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kitty does not control the game
Math does not control the game

and in the topic, I do not control the game

so a scum taking control of the game does not match with your suspects if that's your idea

[MalcolmTucker]

yes, but WHO? who is the scum who has control of the game?

At this point, I would likely say some combination of Kitty, yourself, Math or Roden at an outside shot because I really don't like their reasoning for voting me. Personally I think at least one scum will be hanging back on me so as to not seem too obvious and eager to eliminate me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's sus is that you would have thought about that. you are obviously intelligent, i don't know where this downplaying came from.

[MalcolmTucker]

Kitty does not control the game
Math does not control the game

and in the topic, I do not control the game

so a scum taking control of the game does not match with your suspects if that's your idea

No one player controls the game, but I'd argue those voting for or planning to do so have more control than those who don't - they are roughly in the majority and the idea to lim me has obviously gained some traction.

[MalcolmTucker]

what's sus is that you would have thought about that. you are obviously intelligent, i don't know where this downplaying came from.

I think I'm relatively perceptive in general but remember I am relatively inexperienced at playing mafia on the whole, especially on this site where I have less than 10 games, I'm not particularly bold insofar as making false claims or huge risky gambits is concerned.

[MalcolmTucker]

What I will say is your willingness to engage is making you look better to me than before here. Although I'm aware this could be you trying to appear more reasonable to town if you're mafia and I do go out so it can look like an honest error instead of scum forcing a role player out.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you would have understood what simple meant
you would have understood what a jailkeeper does
like you said it would have been in your role PM

i'm struggling to see how you can be fit in here unless you're really just functionally a doctor and all of the scum is a PR. but we already know andres is a goon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What I will say is your willingness to engage is making you look better to me than before here.

??? I have never been unwilling to engage.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Even FL's slot I continued to play the game as if they were town so I could move on and get a solve on this game and not get in a shitfest

[humaneatingmonkey]

if it's true then Kitty and Math could be both scum PR and your clears on them would be entirely useless

[MalcolmTucker]

you would have understood what simple meant
you would have understood what a jailkeeper does
like you said it would have been in your role PM

i'm struggling to see how you can be fit in here unless you're really just functionally a doctor and all of the scum is a PR. but we already know andres is a goon.

It makes sense reading it now but genuinely when making my choices I was forgetting mafia would potentially have their own roles which could block out mine.

[MalcolmTucker]

if it's true then Kitty and Math could be both scum PR and your clears on them would be entirely useless

Funny if my gut read on them possibly being teammates is correct here and I've forgotten my role wouldn't allow me to find that out.