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[humaneatingmonkey]

you have no scum case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i asked for one in D1 and you said you haven't read yet.
and now you are saying you had one all along.

you have no scum case.

[MathBlade]

it's not self-explanatory. tell us why you eliminated that possibility.

I mean it explains itself.

Earlier I couldn’t tell if the Ate was town or scum.
Then no one gives a hard push on Mala
Unlike the game she was scum she got sussed in all directions
There’s none of that here.

This means that she’s probably not scum.

[MathBlade]

You’ve been doing small little things to piss me off to keep me off my game.

what have i done that has kept you off your game? haters will say you're just making this up.

This is also self explanatory. I have explained how I play the game and form reads in thread, you don’t let me do that. If I list all the ways you’ve annoyed me the game turns toxic but let’s just say I am annoyed and leave that there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There was an entire wagon on Mala. Roden, Kitty, and I. Even koopa was there at one point. D2 there's a guilty. D3, Malakittens was unreachable. It's not self-evident.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have explained how I play the game and form reads in thread, you don’t let me do that.

Okay, so explain now. Please. Don't let me stop you.

[MathBlade]

i asked for one in D1 and you said you haven't read yet.
and now you are saying you had one all along.

you have no scum case.

That’s not what I said.

I said I have suspected you all game which is correct. I suspected you early D1 fact. I suspect you now fact. Ergo I have been scumreading you all game. Fact.

Why are you deliberatingly saying I don’t have a case?

I am not really a “case” person but you’re pissing me off.

I just don’t get the strategy here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no strategy. You're just scum trying to push little low-hanging fruit me hoping people will sheep you.

"You're not a case person" but in that other game, you went to town on DkKoba and and in that large you have bullied the entire playerlist to bend to your will.

[MathBlade]

I've certainly not spotted any crumbing but maybe just very subtle.

To be fair though. I would not expect a townie to point it out..

Not saying either way on you just saying what I did.

This is why I suspect Malcolm. He highlighted a crumb post and called it a role claim.

This doesn’t do any good when scum could have just missed it.

Instead we have a four alarm fire going “look here”.

Can you go more in depth on the Malcolm read?

I kinda feel HEM Malcolm and Italiano are all scum but they don’t all fit together.

You mean like here? I don’t have time to find the rest but a simple iSO proves what I am saying true.

C’mon dude

I gotta go but I think Gamma/Roden/Mala need to come together and we pick an elim in HEM/Malcolm and I think we’re golden.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So where's your case on me then?

[MathBlade]

There's no strategy. You're just scum trying to push little low-hanging fruit me hoping people will sheep you.

"You're not a case person" but in that other game, you went to town on DkKoba and and in that large you have bullied the entire playerlist to bend to your will.

And I have scum games where I have been the vocal leader as well. You’re literally going “math isn’t being loud” when I said I wouldn’t be. Then you’re voting Malcolm yet expending energy on me.

[MathBlade]

So where's your case on me then?

As I said I have to go.

I gave a short case earlier. I am not a case dude.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's D4 near ELO and i'm one of the likely lims here. i'll expend my energy however i want.

i'm not going math isn't being loud. i'm going math isn't trying to direct the game... and oh look he still doesn't have scum case on me other than I'm annoying. now i think it's self-evident you're bullshitting.

pedit: link to your short case please.

[MalcolmTucker]

thinking about it, there's no real value in flipping Malcolm today because if we give him another night, either mafia confirms it for us, or we potentially get a block (if mafia aren't prs)

VOTE: Malakittens

I am kinda thinking HEM/Malcolm.

Scum seem to be desperate here

HEM is throwing on the wall practically anything that sticks.

Malcolm votes Kitty despite pushing HEM repeatedly.

Yeah this is so nonsensical I'm inclined to think you're maybe just being lazy town here. I've been pushing for HEM as one of my main scum targets since D1 and HEM came out all guns blazing for me at the start of the turn. The fact our reads are slightly progressing is a good thing albeit I obviously remain wary of HEM.

[KittyTacky]

Just because someone claimed a role doesn't mean they are a worthy kill.

God if I get eliminated this is going to look so scummy, especially since Kitty had been reluctant to put their vote on me initially so they could see which way the winds blew.

I was hesitating to vote you because I genuinely thought you were wrong town.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty all game has been voting for anyone who does anything remotely anti-town, yet is now boasting about voting for someone who is going to come back as a PR. Amazing how it's suddenly fine for them to doubt PR claims when it suits them.

I don't think your claim fits the game so far. It just feels off. Particularly given your actions.

[KittyTacky]

But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

You seem to assume that scum would play flawlessly and perfectly logically. Why?! That's a huge assumption to make.

They don't play perfectly, but they also don't just casually reveal themselves and consistently doing nothing but voting for play that seems anti-town is not always a good idea. I have explained this so many times now...you voted and justified your vote on Italiano for identical reasons to your vote on Scorpious but it was wrong.

By that logic, townies wouldn't sit on a PR either because that is what got both of them killed. Both sides can play extremely stupidly. And pushing me for VOTING PEOPLE FOR ANTI-TOWN PLAY is ridiculous.

Scumhunting is apparently scummy if you end up being wrong, even if the mislimmed townies' poor play is what made them look like scum in the first place. And now you're latched onto me like a bulldog for making honest mistakes. Smells like scum opportunism.

[KittyTacky]

Responses in bold.

Kitty in 1085 says it "doesn't feel right" that Roden could end up being mafia but doesn't elaborate much further than this. Note that for most of the game Kitty has employed a more evidence-based style where they used gameplay to case and help eliminate Scorpious and Italiano - things that seemed anti-townie had to come from scum so were worth a vote. But here Roden is worthy of a cautious town gut-read. If Kitty is scum, they don't go in too hard on this though because Flavor was keen on Roden at the time for a possible elimination.

I townread by gut, but I scumread by evidence. Usually. I don't have to stick to one style.

In 985 before this Roden showed up to argue against a Kitty wagon by trying to direct players back onto the Mala wagon which had never really worked out all that well. Note Roden doesn't argue against the wagon itself and doesn't inherently say it's bad - they just find a reason to deflect away from it.

In 1165 Kitty makes a readslist which places Kitty in their null/neutral category despite previouslt saying they were unlikely to be mafia. Why is Roden null here? Kitty has clearly expressed a preference. Andre is, of course, also null, but this feels quite NAI given their inactivity. Notably, as I've mentioned before, Kitty's three scumreads here are all now confirmed town and were all suspected by Kitty for the same, identical and flawed reasoning to try and appear more townie.

I was hesitating about Roden then, and my three scumreads were because all three did dumb shit. I switched on JV once he claimed.

By 2192 Kitty again says Roden is not "particularly scummy" - another hedgy read that's hardly a ringing endorsement but very much leaves scope for either a proper defence or bus if needed.

See above. You're tunneled on me.

Note that in 3395 Kitty was "neutral" on me despite the eventual vote then later coming in. Roden voted for me at the start of D3 but then took away their vote for a bit. This indicates to me they were both hedging their bets a bit here in case the town either completely believed my case, or if they were wary they'd look too eager by immediately voting for me given they know I am town.

You were very hard to read for me for most of day 1.

[KittyTacky]

Roden prob town. At least one scum between Mala and Malcolm. HEM not that scummy anymore now that I look at him again.

[MalcolmTucker]

I literally told you why I unvoted but ok

Do you think there's pocketing going on in any direction between me and HEM?

Notably you ignored the vast majority of my post, particularly the hedgy interactions between you and Kitty throughout the game.

You also failed to explain why I would be deep wolfing here considering it would require some pretty big coincidences given - by your own logic - I've also been pursuing several townies throughout the game.

[MalcolmTucker]

You've never shown any evidence you particularly hesitated on Roden, Kitty, beyond that one readslist where you have them as null. "Null" does not imply you're hesitating either - it implies you have no opinion on them at all. You clearly had thoughts on Roden, albeit very limited ones which would be consistent with scum partners.

[MalcolmTucker]

But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

You seem to assume that scum would play flawlessly and perfectly logically. Why?! That's a huge assumption to make.

They don't play perfectly, but they also don't just casually reveal themselves and consistently doing nothing but voting for play that seems anti-town is not always a good idea. I have explained this so many times now...you voted and justified your vote on Italiano for identical reasons to your vote on Scorpious but it was wrong.

By that logic, townies wouldn't sit on a PR either because that is what got both of them killed. Both sides can play extremely stupidly. And pushing me for VOTING PEOPLE FOR ANTI-TOWN PLAY is ridiculous.

Scumhunting is apparently scummy if you end up being wrong, even if the mislimmed townies' poor play is what made them look like scum in the first place. And now you're latched onto me like a bulldog for making honest mistakes. Smells like scum opportunism.

Once again you are continually, again and again, ignoring my point. I am not saying that scum never do stupid things. Sometimes they make themselves known to the town in ways that are wrong. My general point has been that scum generally want to blend in and ensure they are not immediately identified. That is the point - if they didn't attempt to do this the game would fundamentally be easy for town.

My issue with your play, from the POV of thinking you are mafia, is that you have continually identified occasional bad townplay and immediately used that to build an entire scum-case, because it allows you to eliminate town from the game and then build a convenient narrative where you were just town who was wrong, even though I was repeatedly pleading with you from D1 onwards to consider that scum don't always make themselves obvious and that sometimes a bit more thought is needed. If you are scum this approach is literally what you are doing now - you can't be mafia because you had seemingly legitimate reasons for voting out town. I am pointing out that this is your approach as mafia in my view - identify any immediate weaknesses in the town and use said weaknesses to push bad faith eliminations while refusing to search for more subtle mafia.

[MathBlade]

i'm 50/50 on malcolm right now because while that claim is sus, he backed down off my slot and pushed you instead and i think that's out of nowhere and unstrategic for scum to do when humaneatingmonkey is sitting right there being the #1 scapegoat.

This is actually a really good point...

Why the hell do we have a Simple Jailkeeper and two investigatives then? I mean yeah most of the PRs claimed on Day 1 but still, I don't think the mod predicted that during set up. Maybe scum have two PRs? A Rolecop and something weak to avoid the Simple check? The Lazy Tracker would help avoid swing here maybe.

Been ruminating on this more and I can’t figure out what two PRs work.

Maybe a named scum? Is that normal?

Anything that can be tracked is left open for guilty on N1.

Bulletproof scum would work but without a vig that’s trolly on a setup already punishing to scum.

So like ??? *confusedi

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think named roles are normal

[Roden]

I literally told you why I unvoted but ok

Do you think there's pocketing going on in any direction between me and HEM?

Notably you ignored the vast majority of my post, particularly the hedgy interactions between you and Kitty throughout the game.

You also failed to explain why I would be deep wolfing here considering it would require some pretty big coincidences given - by your own logic - I've also been pursuing several townies throughout the game.

I ignored most of your post because you're seeing things that aren't there. I just don't agree that I've been hedging around Kitty.

I don't see how the elims have been coincidences? It's not hard to town read townies who are under pressure and clearly have the momentum to be voted out.