In post 2462, butterchurn wrote:Okay, a lot to catch up on, I don't think it would be terribly useful for me to do like a quote response wall like I was planning to do, so I'll try to summarize thoughts and can expand on thins if anyone is interested:
- I was already townreading Norwegian before this, but I think his attempt to get catboi to join on Nashville around post
2257 and beyond is actually extremely towny. Norwegianboy was just listed by catboi as a top scumread. Trying to convince catboi to vote a specific person among catboi's scumreads is immediately going to draw suspicion, unlikely to be successful, and in fact is most likely to cause the opposite of the intended effect -- make catboi more hesitant to vote where he is being told to. I don't think that Norwegianboy, as scum, is likely to make this attempt. As town he isn't really going to care about how it is interpreted or consider that catboi will find this suspicious, so he has no reason not to. He just wants to try to convince people to join him on the wagon of someone that he thinks is scum.
- I actually mostly agree with Flavor Leaf's assessment of catboi's large case,
2360. I read it a few times and it is very well-reasoned and well-explained. I think the most salient points are about how Flavor Leaf is focusing on pre-flip associations, planting seeds, and gauging where to go based on where there is momentum. However, my impression so far is that this is simply how Flavor Leaf likes to play. He is controlling, charismatic, and has a strong focus on analyzing how the gamestate shifts and moves as a whole, and will take action to alter the gamestate. Now, I haven't played with Flavor Leaf before (although I did read his scum guide), so again this is just my impression, but I would be willing to bet that a key difference between Flavor as scum and Flavor as town is that as scum, he takes action to alter to gamestate to shift it to his team's favor. As town, he takes action to alter the gamestate to feel it out and see how everything responds, because reading that movement is how he likes to solve the game. To me, so far, his actions in this game feel like the latter. catboi's explanation of his play is accurate, and it's true that he is relying a lot on preflips, but I'm not very confident that doing so is something that is more likely for Flavor Leaf to do. I can accept the argument that preflips are generally dangerous and potentially bad play, but town does it all the time. They see associations, and latch onto them in an attempt to make sense of a game where they are uninformed. Scum will do it too, but usually to gain an advantage. Maybe I'm being tricked by the charisma, but when I read his posts I believe Flavor Leaf does genuinely see these associations and that's why he's calling them out. Now the question is if I agree with Flavor Leaf that catboi's analysis is something that comes from him as scum. On that, I'm not sure. I feel like I can see the town in his responses to the pushes on him, it feels like he is genuinely concerned that people are scum taking advantage of things. I am concerned that his push on Flavor Leaf seems to be for things that to me look mostly like just Flavor Leaf things, though. Not willing to feel strongly about a read here yet.
- In response to catboi's tictac vote, since he asked for opinions from people he townreads: personally I struggle to discern alignment from low volume posters. Maybe that means I should be giving them more attention than I am, but tictac seems fine to me so far.
1794 was not great, but I think their earlier follow-up to catboi not answering their question was towny. I definitely think that Nashville Dreams is a more promising place for toDay, and since it's a large game we have enough time that there's very little chance that we will just lose to lurking scum.
