KTaNE [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Then we kill Andante for playing on our fears.
Fear is the mind killer.

??? wow are you actually maf here then?

VOTE: Bell

I feel like I should get over my latent paranoia of andante

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant, why andante? Just for blowing up Titus?

[Enchant]

SHE PLAINLY ANNOYING.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what's weird is we have this knot of people in the POE townreading eachother

Pooky seems convinced it's Bell, no suspicion of Enchant/Andante
Bell seems convinced it's Pooky, no suspicion of Enchant/Andante
Andante was pushing Enchant, TRs Pooky virtually no suspicion there
Enchant thinks ... ??

why is whoever is town in this group so convinced they have it right when I am finding decent reasons to doubt a scumread on everybody

I am not convinced it's bell

it's between bell/enchant for me with a tiny outside chance of dwlee-scum masterminding everything.

andante/CSF are the only people I'm like super sure are town.

My win condition is to convince everyone I'm town, lim in bell/enchant and hope to hell Dwlee is town too.

I recognize everyone suspects me for ???? reasons that I don't think have much to do with my play and just an overall fear of my scum game in general. [I think there are so many reasons why I have to be town that it should be kind of obvious for everyone - I am fairly sure I was shot at on N1 because it literally doesn't make sense for the shot to go anywhere else on that night that was protected. It also makes very little sense for me to try to get into the top townread bomb squad to chill with andante/catboi if I have a bomb rigger that I'm using to frame 4 people]

That's fine. Lim me today and make the decision between Bell/Enchant tomm if that's how it needs to go down. But don't let Bell keep getting away with deathtunneling cuz it's easy and comfortable for him to deathtunnel. Look at how hard I interrogate the shit out of Bell in Death Curse before I let him off the hook. Actually give a shit because you are not going to be happy if you end up losing to Bell!scum who decided to lol-cat shitpush only townies the entire game just because "tone-read". Tone can be faked it's not even that hard.

I'm not saying deadsheep me and yeet Bell for sure - I'm not that sure he's scum - I just think he's gotten a free pass for too long and this game might not be as easy as yeet Enchant auto-win.

But maybe I'm wrong and like it really is that easy - I dunno. DYODD.

[Bell]

I’ll listen if you’re town Pooky. Sorry for misreading you if I did.I don’t really think I’ve been lazy this game tho. I just tuned out after reaching my solve and took actions that reflect that solve. It’s not comparable to death curse because I just stopped solving when there were a bunch of question marks left because we needed a whole lot of misses to lose.
And still almost lost!

[GuiltyLion]

btw I'm gonna try to continue the reread after work maybe 3-4 hours from now

[Dwlee99]

I was wondering when someone would say I could be scum and was wondering what it would mean. I'd actually been thinking that scum! you was most likely scum to not posit me as scum, but now that you have I'm not sure what to do with it

[Dwlee99]

I really just think game state is pointing to town consensus being wrong right now

can you explain this statement in FAR greater detail

a) what do you see is the current "game state"

b) what is the "town consensus" opinion that is wrong?

and

how does a) provide evidence for b)?

There is an overwhelming consensus on a large number of slots being town. So either scum is just... letting that happen correctly, or there is a deep wolf.

Two worlds here:

1.) Scum is sitting idly while town just wins
2.) Consensus opinion of many townread slots is wrong

Now 1.) DOES happen, but with this table I think it's very unlikely. I don't think many of these players are ones to just let town win.

only 7 people aren't healing me.... 19 player game... how the heck do I have 12 votes? that's scary to me

also who's good at reading dwlee? I think it'd be fun to put them in a group with people who can read them. Any volunteers?

I'd rather Dwlee not be a bomb expert at all currently

oh and no dwlee in my hood.. please...

If we are both town why would you not want an opportunity to show me you're town? Posts like this are so scummy cause you should actually be willing to engage with me but you just wanna complain that I scumread you. I'm not going to stop because of AtE that I know you fake as scum.

Something that imo shows I am very town here is this pos
I picked up on scum letting town control the game or there being deepwolves and because I was uninformed of the scum bombrigging strategy I tried to figure out deepwolves and disrupt the heals scum were trying to push into the top

[Dwlee99]

I definitely think we should look at greeting and Cephrir kills closely

[Dwlee99]

Probably points to Pooky - Pooky doesn't typically advocate for big brain kills, just killing people who scumread you to get them out of the way

[Dwlee99]

Although greeting townread Pooky looks like

Fivehead

[Dwlee99]

Greeting was a PR however

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I’ll listen if you’re town Pooky. Sorry for misreading you if I did.I don’t really think I’ve been lazy this game tho. I just tuned out after reaching my solve and took actions that reflect that solve. It’s not comparable to death curse because I just stopped solving when there were a bunch of question marks left because we needed a whole lot of misses to lose.
And still almost lost!

um what would you even be listening to me for

i flip town

you death tunnel enchant tomm[this is true regardless of your role pm]

there's nothing for you to listen to me for.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like it's fine if you're town and you misread me - like I misread you too so we're even I guess?

it's just a game just play for fun.

[Andante]

did not mean to leave a vote on bell all day lol

VOTE: Enchant

[Enchant]

Dwlee99 could potentially still be scum if VP is designated bus.

It pairs well with insanity of choice to blow up Andre (then there was two mafs in expert team). Of course, one maf going down, but other looks incredible good from it. Counterpoint of this theory is how idiotic it was. Like, i would expect SvS to be more agressive, not "UH I THINK WE ARE BOTH TOWN".

[GuiltyLion]

I got through 95-125 before my eyes started glazing over and fatigue hit me

again nothing that really stood out to me as worth dregging up and talking about

I think my overall impression is that there are bits and conversations where Enchant, Andante, Bell all feel genuinely unaligned with VPB. The biggest thing standing out to me is an absence of any serious direct interactions between VPB and Pooky in a way that he has with most other players. I know earlier I said I felt one point in Pooky's favor was that his associatives don't look like they're trying to not look associated, but when I'm getting deep into Real Game Content in D3 and I still don't have a sense that Pooky has really talked with any of the scum in any meaningful fashion, it starts to stick out a lot worse

I still need to reread the N2 hood again

[GuiltyLion]

or if we policy blow him up at 4th defusal, we have 0 chance of losing

if VPB is town, we reset to 0 defusals for scum and we get three more defusals with no worries.

if VPB is scum, we just policy bomb everyone and dare the scumbags to try to win

We can lim Pooky and if scum, then lim Baltar.

Why not indeed.

Why you avoiding the mala wagon enchant?

this I thought pointed pretty strongly away from scum!Enchant

far easier for me to see this as scum trying to throw some shade on a townie for the upcoming red flip rather than scum coaching/distancing a buddy to vote the other one

like I get that the latter happens on occasion, but this is so direct it'd be really clumsy if it was theater, and so immediately after Enchant was calling out a potential Pooky-Baltar associative

[GuiltyLion]

Actually, there was this one thing that I did want to bring up

I also noted that I wouldn’t have needed to claim to get me through yesterday, and then make myself a target by swapping myself into the PT. As a strategic decision, attracting heat when I had weathered the storm yesterday and gotten a claim out (if I were Scum) didn’t seem sensible, but you all have to judge that.

Let's assume you are town, why do you think there was such a frenzy for the fire wagon yesterday as soon as your wagon took off a little bit?

I am Town. I claimed Doctor and there was no NK yesterday. Do you think the Scum held back from firing? Has anyone stepped forward to explain in a different way why there was no extra kill? Like I really can’t make this easier for you.

Scum sometimes push alternative wagons, and after my claim (and some clear resistance from multiple players against executing me), they probably felt they needed to push elsewhere. Frog still tried to bury me by ridiculing my claim. But they couldn’t get traction so they pushed fire relying on a flawed argument from catboi who was clearly trying their best and had a reasonable argument.

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.

Andres posts using the lack of NK in his defense of his doctor claim, speculating on why there wasn't one

I find it interesting how Mena's recap of the hood is so different from the others... like,

I've been kinda suspicious of pooky, and that's where in a T/T world with VP and Pooky, I assumed VP was going to die last night, but now I'm wondering why scum!Pooky would save a town!VP, the sudden weird "yeah let's heal DW!!" yesterday honestly could just be pooky scum for why it seemed so odd to me, idk!!! but both Ceph and CSF gave off Pooky towny, then Mena is like "yeah pooky wasn't towny" so ehhh idk!!!

I'm LAUGHING so hard at frogster's claim... "all I have to do is live till day 5 to prove myself!!" you had no care about catboi living till D2 to prove himself... so why would you have till d5??

everyone has checked in, can frogster go bye bye now?

Andante posts throwing suspicion at Pooky and the weirdness of VPB/Pooky N1 hood defuse

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.

Eh, not really what I asked you. I asked you to explain your vote on fire, as in what did you find scummy? And you basically said "well catboi wanted it and I trusted him," which of course looks to me like you're putting it on a dead player.

It definitely is what it is. What I am trying to assess is whether you found fire scummy or just wanted to save yourself, which doesn't even necessarily make you scum.

The biggest thing that points to you being scum is the sheer speed that people powered that wagon through based on catbois case. I was there and didn't even have time to fully read his case before people ended it!

As far as the lack of NK, I have no idea, but in your world pooky should be lock town, yeah?

VPB comments and mixes up the two players. He is responding to Andres but then sees Andante's post in p-edit and assumes she is Andres. He is

very quick

to say Pooky should be lock town and downplay Andante's reasonable suspicion, seemingly making no effort to stop and think about why town!Andres would be shading his own potential-doc save, instead just leaping at an opportunity to imply Pooky should be lock town and it's scummy for 'Andres' to think otherwise.

Lol oh that pedit was andante not andres

He catches his mistake

why should pooky be lock town to me?

Andante is confused

why should pooky be lock town to me?

Ignore that part. It is pretty coffee times here and I saw "and***" In the pedit going after pooky right after andres was taking town cred for stopping a NK on pooky so I was like "OH NO HE DIDNT"....but it was I who cannot read!

There was 30 minutes between his previous spurt of rapid fire posting and this post where he explains it. I feel this is also a bit over-explainy, obviously when you're scum and you make mistakes like this you feel a lot of pressure to explain your mix up. I know regardless of Pooky's alignment he probably felt nerves to hand wave his mistake/lack of close reading - which we know was ultimately due to him being scum bullshitting a push on a town!Andres - buuuut in my head I am just getting a sense that part of the tense/nerves of the situation was he was trying to 'lock-town' Pooky to a player who had no reason to lock-town Pooky. He doesn't even give his own read on Pooky during this exchange which I would sort of expect from town in this situation, even if he were just talking to Andres.

I dunno if I explained this well as it's late and I am tired, but def caught my eye on reread

[GuiltyLion]

anyway yeah tomorrow I wanna reread

N2 hood w/ Bell
N4 hood w/ Pooky
VPB going down D5 - I remember a loooottt of potential anti-associative with Dwlee here and I wanna make sure it doesn't ping me on reread as too orchestrated just as a sanity check

but yeah, ultimately still leaning Pooky I think

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

isnt that even more evidence that a nightkill on me was blocked night one rofl

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like VPB fucking knows he shot me night one and it was blocked and he slipped it to andres and then tried to walk it back omg this is ridiculous atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am locktown to andres BECAUSE he literally saved me from dying

this is scum TMI

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like r u seriously thinking that I'm scum because VPB tried to TR me when dude was obviopusly going down like wtf rofl what even is this

[Dwlee99]

It is the equivalent of university fun day today so I will be gone