In post 1156, skitter30 wrote:Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
i think the idea that ari decided to have me in the coalition as the first misflip is kind of... not realistic in any possible scenario. i think the only people that have explicitly said they townread ari over me are Maybe Skitter and Maybe Irrel - i think most others had us as equal or me above her. and that is ignoring the fact that (1) god help you if you wanna try misflipping town!me, (2) ari was townreading me almost the whole day and had just made a post on why she thinks i'm town. either she can't push me herself or has to have some really really awkward backpedaling on why i'm scum. like, in so many cases, she's the one that goes down, not me.
also ari's posts right now feel like she is Genuinely Solving by vibe but maybe that's a bad metric to use. i need to reread the skitt/ari interactions of who ~said what and who asked whom to sheep~ them to be able to consciously digest those arguments well because i don't want to be working from memory
but also i've been staring at this forum for a few hours now and i need a break and i'll get things done through today and tomorrow, cool? cool.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 1156, skitter30 wrote:Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them
In post 1193, Save The Dragons wrote:i don't think the meta argument that this is not his scum game is a very good one, the game linked doesn't have a ton of posts from him and i don't think it's outside the play other than he lurked i guess but he kinda lurked a little here too
i don't think you actually read the post i made on menalque if the only thing you got from it is "well he's not lurking in this game and he lurked in a scumgame so he's town"
also skitt when you're back i do want a kind of an elaboration on 1189 - how do you see the gamestate at the moment of the coalition forming that you think it's viable for ari to do this? like i said in 1201 why i don't really think it's realistic for ari to try to do that but i want to hear your pov i guess
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 733, skitter30 wrote:Like i guess i dont understand your point around the difference between 1 and 2 scum being in. Isnt 2 scum being in better?
why were you thinking it's better for scum to have 2 in rather than 1?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
Maybe I’m coming around to a ari and dat town again
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
Maybe I’m coming around to a ari and dat town again
who do you think is scum in the coalition then?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
He was kinda my idk if I want to switch him in or out player
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
(1) have you read my towncase on him (2) do you have reasonings for any of those reads
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
okay, i reskimmed posts from ari/skitter from page 24 onwards, and i feel like i have Things that i want to say, but also i want skitter to appear first and answer the things that have been asked
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:
145 and 146 are very reminiscent of the ways mena used to joke with me and prob others in some of our older games. i started off this game thinking he's scum because he was feeling flat and 142 felt like he was dying inside and yeah. idk if scum!him ever got to being able to joke with me in a way that doesn't make Something feel off. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84455 the first posts of this page are like an example of what i mean ig
i just don't see 146 as a jokey vibe
142 sucks unless it was a joke
i dunno man i'm not sure what this is trying to say
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:also, in retrospect, 150 is *weird* to make if he's scum because like, it's decently possible he would have to play hard at some point, and he would have an ample opportunity to be townread because me and skitt and whoever else would go "wow mena is playing differently than he did in that other game where i last saw him as scum" and instead he calls attention to it why. idk.
i don't think 150 says at all what you are saying it says and i think you are trying hard to make it fit this narrative that he is town
and that's throughout the whole game. maybe a month or so he was subbed in. like his vibes were way off.
i read this iso and i get that the case is not "he lurks as scum and he's not lurking here!" but then you bring up the post count argument so i guess it kind of is? but i just don't think there's enough to really tell, i don't think the vibes feel that different
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:also his "i don't wanna heal skitt/ari" business and not voting to form a coalition until he's not ready for one reminds me of him like. wanting the best for the gamestate and have things develop organically. hold on i remember a game where he said that (he was in a hydra with skitt but this was him posting):
In post 506, Datisi wrote:i'd still like to know what this was/is about.
I thought it was fairly well known that I am against explicit discussion of townblocs/forming townblocs in almost a direct inverse proportion to how much I like actually having them
I guess apparently not so let me be clear: I am against explicit discussion of townblocs/forming townblocs in direct inverse proportion to how much I like having townblocs
-QB
not wanting to heal ari/skitter on the basis of clout is just as NAI as me not believing in that shit. in fact i think it's more likely to come from scum to try and pocket.
i think just because he's playing to his town meta here doesn't make him town, i think "not wanting to form townblocs until he's ready" once doesn't equate to him being town here.
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:like town!mena wants to solve the game and he wants a solveable game. there's like, you can feel the cogs turning in his head when he's making posts like these because he's thinking of the future and what's gonna make the game readable. compare that to the scum iso i posted, there is nothing that makes him see the bigger picture. it's just empty air going from post to post (edited to add later on: 651 also fits that picture. scum!mena would benefit from there being paranoia about the coalition bc there's a chance town is derpy enough to completely fail to make one and because it gives him easier avenues to attack later on and and i also remember him saying spewing chaos is sometimes good as scum in micro 892 when we were scumbuddies and like idk. 651 feels townie in the same vein the others here do)
you use the phrase empty air i dunno what i'm supposed to take from this other than he was kinda lurking. i just don't know what mena's done to accomplish a solvable game. i will state i noticed he asked a lot of questions as scum and hasn't done that exactly here so maybe there's something there but i'm not seeing it. i don't even like meta arguments anyway i'm just indulging it for the sake of argument but i just don't see it, sorry.
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:and here it's like, his arguing about skitt/ari not only provides the game being more sortable to him (or like, at least he believes it will be more sortable to him) but there's also the fact that he probably won't look great off of it to anyone other than maybe me and skitter and i'm not sure if that's worth the effort
maybe
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:maybe he's being extremely bigbrain by having me townread him for it and defend him but again, looking at that prior scum!iso i don't feel it chief
also compare the towncase he did in 414 to a towncase he did in the scumgame: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13206702
it just feels like in the first example he's using like actual progressions to show where someone is town while in the other it's like... "well you didn't attack me and also you're attacking this loud person so you're town lol"
the two town cases look a little different i'll give you that but i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility they come from the same alignment.
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:also if we're comparing postcounts there he posted ~60 times in 20 days while here it's been ~80 in 6 - i know postcount isn't much and that scum!mena can sometimes spam but i feel like it's A Point
still yuck, you're trying to throw everything against the wall to see what sticks
In post 1126, Datisi wrote:also the thing on ari/fire around 674 - nowhere in his scum iso do i see any "if x then y" posts even remotely similar to this which even more makes me think that that's like, and actual thought he has
674 looks performative to me like "look i can't be scum i'm hunting but i'm not going to tell you how hehe"
- i'm trying to say 145 and 146 are vibing in a mena!town way that i'm not sure scum!mena would successfully replicate at this point in time
- that's a part of my case? he's posting more here than he did there? i'm saying it's not the only part of my case and your post earlier made it seem like it was
- i feel like you don't understand my point on why "i don't wanna heal skitt/ari" is a townie thought - because it's planning for the future in the game. town!mena would try to have the game solveable at some point, scum!mena probably wouldn't because he did not do that last game as scum and it would require substantially more effort to fake here. and because he knows that later in the game, he will have to circle back on analysing how the fact that the game turned out a certain way influenced his read on those players and that's something that he simply did not even attempt to do as scum.
- i mean show me one post in his scumgame where he said anything that would make it feel like he was solving the game as a whole. he has a lot of posts and questions towards singular players, yes. but he's not looking at the game in a holistic way as scum. he's done that here.
like the extremely annoying thing here is that you can go "well lol i don't see it sorry i don't do meta idk vibes don't feel off to me" and like
i'm annoyed now
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 1192, Save The Dragons wrote:i still think the entrance was potential performative scum entrance but i dunno about other stuff
have you looked at "the other stuff" and what do you think about it
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
i mean maybe i'm biased by knowing i'm town here but i still don't believe you could come to a townread on irrelephant and a scumread on me when we've had similar thoughts in the game similar stances on people and i think a similar progression of thought
but not talking about me, i just don't see what's so townie. like yes there's talk about ari/skitter and there's talk about irrelephant being town but what else is there? some questions? that's in his scumrange according to the game you linked which i still think is a poor example of meta that you're trying to pigeonhole into a good argument.
regarding ari and skitter i just don't see it dude 1) he could easily back out of it if needed 2) it's NAI to have reads on certain players for being "good" or "better" 3) i don't see how he's planning for the future see point 1 4) there's a slight chance that ari/skitter are a partner that they're trying to downplay and distance from 5) not doing something last game as scum isn't really a precursor to not doing it as scum in the future if he thinks ari will "play around" his tell of her so he's not telling us what it is certainly he knows how to change his own damn meta
i dunno maybe i'm just wrong and i'm looking in the wrong place??? but i don't think your case is as ironclad as you want to believe
In post 1216, Save The Dragons wrote:but i still don't believe you could come to a townread on irrelephant and a scumread on me when we've had similar thoughts in the game similar stances on people and i think a similar progression of thought
i don't really care about having you "similar thoughts" on the game as someone else. it's not about What Thoughts a person has it's How they have those thoughts. like if i have to go through both your isos and explain why irrel's townier than you because he pushed the game forward and his thought processes seem more real and more nuanced to me, i will, but i really don't think that's important right now as he is in the coalition and you aren't.
who is scum in the coalition and why?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
oh god i actually did mention i knew of that game.
i guess it's not really important since if ari/nk15, then either ari dies first or we Just Lose, but huh. i forgot about bringing it up.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
well that's frustrating because i though i was pushing the game forward and taking charge and trying to lead the thread but it feels like because i wasn't online at certain times when people were talking to each other it just looks like i was behind and playing catch up
i don't know how to argue against my reads not being nuanced or "real" because they are real and i don't do a lot of nuance i don't think so that's kind of a playstyle thing i think
i think that it's menalque for reasons i've already outlined and i think you are a possible partner so it could be both of you. i need to go back to your posts and see if there's something there, i guess i owe you that but i don't know if i'll do that soon or not
i'm waiting for skitter to respond but i think ari's points are more accurate of what happened and i think skitter is not recognizing ari's contribution of trying to cede control to push a narrative that you and ari are scum. i don't know if that's true or not. i think i need to hear from skitter to see what she says. i see a world where both ari and skitter are correct in which they both tried to cede control to the other and fell because scum outside of them took advantage of that but i need to see more.
irrelephant i don't think is scum, if they are they tried to pocket me and considering no one is seeing the influence i've had on this thread i guess the question i have is why
maybe it's my playstyle but i feel like i've been pushing my trs to be known all game which may not look like leadership and thread control but i've tried to be vocal about it and any scum reads i've had too
In post 1192, Save The Dragons wrote:menalque suspects me for reasons that in my opinion are weird or NAI so i don't know it's hard for me to ignore that but i should probably get over it like i said and see what else this slot contains. i still think the entrance was potential performative scum entrance but i dunno about other stuff
idk why you think i can be his partner because why would i do a towncase i did other than ~wifom reasons~ if one of us flips which is 99/100 not a good reason to do things like that
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
i mean i've argued against your town points i don't think the meta argument is a good one and i don't think he's done much in the game and what he has done seems wrong somehow
i outlined that it was a concerted effort to get menalque into the coalition and keep me out like there's no guarentee that you would stay in the coalition so to get both of you in covers your bases and if one flips scum it opens the door for us to mislim outside the coalition no it's not a great reason but it's something i could see happening.
i think menalque could easily be partnered with malakittens/nk 15 even maybe fire maybe that's more likely than you but i don't want to count out the possibility
