Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[skitter30]

No, i would say that was not obvious

[Aristeia]

I also did not think it was obvious

the only lol-hammerer is already voting for bloodhail

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

[Datisi]

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me. (1)

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town??? (2)

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because??? (3)

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here (4)

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed. (5)

Adding numbers to the things i'm responding to above

1. She said she thinks its you/roden if bh/mena are tvt. I am reevaluating my read on u in case i'm wrong on bh. Nor sure what the difference is between whaat i'm doing and what she's doing.

2. I dont know, but you're strongly townreading mena and kinda vaguely townreading irrel. I cant imagine that you're going to vote for mena here, so idk why you arent working on your irrel read (or, if you think he's town, working on ur read on ari/dats, which fundementally probably boils down to scumreading me given your read on ari, except you're not really pushing me eithe)

3. I mean i dont think it was viable for you to prop up nk15 or mala or fire to befin with. Std is the one i dont understand

4. Why u over std ? I do give both ari and irrel some amt of town points for not really caring if they got in or not. Eveb mena to some extent. For you, it was also a given that you were getting in. Why didnt you entertain std in some other coalition also?

5. Idk, was just expecting a little bit of a different response i guess

(1) the difference is that you have more experience with me and she's not openly making posts like 2097

(2) this post kind of feels like a "you're being lazy" argument, and if you want a longer explanation on why i'm not that would ultimately be a lot of nai explanation of my play, i can do that, but my question is unanswered there -- what is my scum motivation for doing this? what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

(3) it wasn't viable at any *singular* point on d1. but i kept keeping those doors closed and not even checking if it *could* be made viable.

(4) because i know i am town and i don't know the colour of std's role pm? irrel offered to not vote himself in at the time where it was very very likely he was going to get in one way or another. and why would i be considering std in a different coalition, what different coalition? any would've been less preferred that the one with the townreads i had

(5) ._.

[Datisi]

I also did not think it was obvious

the only lol-hammerer is already voting for bloodhail

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

(1) people can lolhammer on accident too

(2) i am not 100% certain he is scum. and even if i were, cutting the day short here might be counterproductive because in a state like this, it's more likely people do ai things.

[Aristeia]

The deadline is in 0 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes.

it's like less than 12 hours left on the day though

[Aristeia]

I want you to be town but you just don't feel that way rn and im scared :<

[Aristeia]

if you're like actually town I just wish I wasn't so bad at reading you

[Datisi]

i'm aware, that doesn't negate my point that a hammer happening during a conversation is Not Good

why do you even think i'm scum now? what has changed since you were townreading me recently?

[bloodhail]

why am i not surprised at all at this turn of events

2034 is a lol post because he was accusing me of "wow, datisi going on the defensive and not bothering to determine whether i'm incorrect is a scum response!!" but when *i* ask why he doesn't seem willing to have a conversation and is shutting me out, it's "i don't think that would get us anywhere achkcually sorry"

if skitter is scum then she is the scum in the coalition and her not doing enough to get STD in is...entirely irrelevant. it does not change the gamestate AT ALL if STD is in coalition or out of coalition in skitter-scum worlds. I would think Datisi is sharp enough to realize this. the idea he posits is that skitter would have done more as town but is really just making the presumption that town always plays optimally or ideally and that's just not true. people are timid sometimes. it does not make them scum. skitter is often indecisive as town. i dont think this is a genuine suspicion on datisis part.

this is not my argument. this was never my argument. i KNOW town!skitter can be indecisive as town. i've seen it happen. i don't think it's very ai for skitter to be decisive or indecisive. i know townies are sometimes lazy i'm often lazy like holy fuck.

my point was that skitter's actions pre-coalition and post-coalition do not fucking track. she did very little to get std in and kept mentioning how she'd maybe sorta kinda be okay with ari in.

this by itself is not a problem

. the problem is when she does that, AND THEN after the coalition fails she goes on a rant about how she really really wanted std in and woe is her we didn't let her get her preferred coalition when she fought for it so hard and she wanted to keep ari out at all costs.

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

hell, if she isn't his partner, that could've been a setup for a time after she flips. maybe she thought ari was easier to flip than std. i don't know the exact scum motivation because i am not a mind reader. but i saw something that had good potential of being scummy and i wanted to question it.

see i dont buy this thinking at all sorry dude

[Datisi]

misconstructs my argument that i had already explained prior

"doesn't buy the thinking" when i'm forced to explain it again

okay

[bloodhail]

bloodhail

i thought it was obvious

before you ask, i'm not voting him because that puts him at y-1 and i'm trying to give people time to react to the current events without worry about a lolhammer

[bloodhail]

misconstructs my argument that i had already explained prior

"doesn't buy the thinking" when i'm forced to explain it again

okay

i do not think we're gonna get anywhere with this datisi, i don't think getting into the weeds over this is helpful. i'm sorry if this is too dismissive but, like, i probably get yeeted here, me going back and forth with you over my read on you just seems like a huge waste of time



if i am wrong on you i am sorry for being a clown who is bad at mafia. but from where i am sitting you seem like the most likely scum in the coalition and nothing you've said has swayed me

[Aristeia]

i'm aware, that doesn't negate my point that a hammer happening during a conversation is Not Good

why do you even think i'm scum now? what has changed since you were townreading me recently?

bh feeling a lot townier than irrelephant and insisting that skitter/mena are both "obvtown" and asking me to like sheep his read if/when he flips.

yes if someone is very loud I tend to just listen to them esp if they are asking me to sheep them post death :/

[Aristeia]

like I kind of recognize it's possible that bh!scum decided to amplify my paranoia on your slot and just straight up kamikaze you to get out of the 1v1 with mena that he's likely losing

but he's kind of screaming that you're mafia and you're not being very forceful and it's easy to be influenced by someone who is just loud and seems to not care about being flipped.

[bloodhail]

i am 75 posts into fire's iso and feel okayish about him being town still although this is significantly more dense than the others so it might take me some time to get through

[bloodhail]

like I kind of recognize it's possible that bh!scum decided to amplify my paranoia on your slot and just straight up kamikaze you to get out of the 1v1 with mena that he's likely losing

but he's kind of screaming that you're mafia and you're not being very forceful and it's easy to be influenced by someone who is just loud and seems to not care about being flipped.

but im supposed to be scary ooooo

[skitter30]

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

Fwiw this does kind od make sense to me - even if i think someone is scum, i dont necessarily want to end the day early

[skitter30]

what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

I mean if you're scum and mena/irrel is tvt it kinda behooves you to just vaguely watch this happening from the sidelines; you probably dont need to push either, or any other scumread

[skitter30]

Like a townflip will just happen without getting ur hands dirty

[skitter30]

(3) it wasn't viable at any *singular* point on d1. but i kept keeping those doors closed and not even checking if it *could* be made viable.

(4) because i know i am town and i don't know the colour of std's role pm? irrel offered to not vote himself in at the time where it was very very likely he was going to get in one way or another. and why would i be considering std in a different coalition, what different coalition? any would've been less preferred that the one with the townreads i had

3: i mean it was p apparent that they werent super viable, idk if you get townpoints for not trying to make things that weren't viable viable

4: fair enuf, that's what i thought u would say

[skitter30]

like I kind of recognize it's possible that bh!scum decided to amplify my paranoia on your slot and just straight up kamikaze you to get out of the 1v1 with mena that he's likely losing

This thought did cross my mind
But he's also not trying to get out of getting flipped either

[bloodhail]

i think fire is

probably

just town who is very, very wrong about the game. there is a possibility i am getting rolled here b/c it's not as easy for me to understand his perspective but my lean off speedreading and some brief interaction is that he's being genuine. the confidence level isnt as high as it is with std (never ever yeet std this game) but wouldn't really evaluate him before f3

[Datisi]

what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

I mean if you're scum and mena/irrel is tvt it kinda behooves you to just vaguely watch this happening from the sidelines; you probably dont need to push either, or any other scumread

yeah, because it's definitely a given that leaving them alone would mean they would keep tunneling each other and wouldn't ever reconsider

and it's also definitely a given that others stops reading everyone other than mena/irrel

and if they flip t/t, nobody is ever going back to try to reread who was playing around it like scum

definitely much easier to risk all of that than just pick a person and tip them over

But he's also not trying to get out of getting flipped either

considering that he's pointing out reasons that make me scum then not acknowledging the responses, and that he's trying to get townread by ~solving~, it seems to me like he is trying to not get flipped but what do i know

[bloodhail]

fire im a little confused as to whether you think my slot or menalque is more likely to be scum at this present moment in time

[bloodhail]

considering that he's pointing out reasons that make me scum then not acknowledging the responses, and that he's trying to get townread by ~solving~, it seems to me like he is trying to not get flipped but what do i know

i have nothing to hide, datisi. being flipped does not concern me. i'm not one to give up as either alignment (unless it's totally hopeless) because that's how i learned to play the game but my number one priority right now is simply getting my views out.