Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[fireisredsir]

i should probably be more critical of pushes on me when im town tbh cause as scum its gonna look weird when i don't do my usual town response of "yea ok that's kinda fair" and roll over and die

ari ur scum >:[

[Aristeia]

hehe

[skitter30]

Why *do* we think faker got killed?

[Aristeia]

I was saving my bh n1'd faker theory for after fire flips town

[fireisredsir]

I think you know what it is

but it's too stupid to type out and I'd be embarrassed if I did >(-_-)<

ok you can be embarrassed now

[fireisredsir]

also bloodhail ive listened to 3 of your pfp albums now and this one is my favorite

[Aristeia]

well if you flip scum I won't have to actually say it !

[fireisredsir]

i have bad news for you then

[Aristeia]

[Not Known 15]

Nk15 why is it ari?

I think I already mentioned what might be the most convincing argument here:

i was thinking maybe leave out mala/me/fire/std?

what do people think of that ?

This. A team without Aristeia, with Datisi.
Now let's first look from scum!Ari's viewpoint.
Think for one moment what would have happened if this went through. I would have been the designated lim. One voice against dats/ari down.
Good for scum!Ari.
Dats gets limmed later. Mala/fire/std are all there to be mislimmed, potentially.
Again, good for scum!Ari
Ari is outside the wagon and can push more
Good for scum.
Now, let's look at town!Ari.
Ari is not on the coalition. The chances of the coalition failing increase.
Very bad for town.

Finally, let me show you that Ari does understand mechanics and give me an example for someone else, who has mechanic knowledge(Instructor Ryan aka Mathblade) spewing far more insane BS about mechanics:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351.

There is simply no good reason for town!Ari to openly advocate for this at that time. Ari was no longer someone who was very likely to be left out(unlike at the beginning).

[fireisredsir]

Now, let's look at town!Ari.
Ari is not on the coalition. The chances of the coalition failing increase.
Very bad for town.

this is your whole reasoning? that someone good at mechanics shouldn't be willing to exclude themselves from the coalition?

[bloodhail]

or tactical kill to prevent a replacement from altering the gamestate

This would imply to me that the poe is very very wrong ...

i mean, i had 2 names listed lol

and i am not discounting nk15 just being chaotic and pickin a weird kill just because

[bloodhail]

read nk15's case and while there's some weird stuff there (namely the way ari and datisi were townreading each other) mostly it just feels like circumstantial evidence at best

can probably write some words on fire tonight but otherwise i think we vote nk15 and then go from there if necessary

[skitter30]

Yeah like i said there is some part of me worried abt svs ari/dats ...
This is probably not something we act upon today, maybe tomorrow or like elo

I dont find nk15's case to be super compelling either

[bloodhail]

also bloodhail ive listened to 3 of your pfp albums now and this one is my favorite

hmm wow pocketing much

[bloodhail]

anyway now that mala has posted my first shot at a coalition is

HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: not known 15
HEAL: irrelephant
HEAL: malakittens

200 from fire is a bit oof though

like i recall that fire said he wanted to wait for everyone to post before healing, but like, (1) mala had posted before (this point is pedantry tho so whatever) but (2) what about mala's 178 is something that makes you wanna heal her

(1) i got 0 from her original posts and got slightly more than 0 from that post, so by my own arbitrary guidelines of what counts, that one counted and the others didn't

(2) maybe this is overthinking but i felt like it looked too much like lazy scum mala (which at least a couple people here should know what that looks like) and unless she just like straight up doesn't care at all (in which case she will prob get caught sooner than later anyway) i thought she would make some attempt to not look like that. and yes i have talked myself out of correct scumreads like at least once a game with this logic and i am aware of that. but anyway after this i also kinda liked her questioning my heal on her, didn't feel like something she would be as likely to do as scum

std - backpedalling is a thing that exists but alright sure

fire - i think that's not a Good reason to townread someone since just because someone knows they need to play differently doesn't mean that they CAN do that, and this is a setup where one scum lowkey benefits from looking scummy if they're also distanced enough for later, but that's a theoretical discussion that's not very helpful right now

as for her "questioning" your read on her, 216 felt more like she was asking "what do you mean now that i've posted, i've posted before" rather than "why are you townreading me for that post", which feels like something scum might do if they feel like they should enter a conversation with you but they don't want to actually make you rethink your townread or open the gates for discussion there

kinda don't think this is scum/scum - this overall looks like a bit of an unnecessary callout as to when it happens, fire wasn't receiving significant pressure other than from ari, datisi had briefly tried to coalition him

is also maybe one of those things where i can see it as secondhand distancing "that's not a good reason to townread someone" being, like, kind of a classic way of talking about bad reads on your parter (but, again, datisi has plenty of reason to discredit townreads on town in the coalition phase as well)

[bloodhail]

Guys I got malakittens+datisi scumteam in my eye and I can't get it out

I'm not even really advocating that that's definitely the scumteam it's just like... stuck there in my large elephant eye

My trunk is not quite nimble enough to hepl, someone help

hm can you talk about this more

Sure yeah, elephant eyes are a little bigger than human eyes. Only a little, which might surprise you - roughly 150% the size of a human eye. I would have thought bigger but no

And elephant trunks can grab stuff but don't have, like, opposable thumbs, so it's hard to get in there without making things worse

ok well i was kind of feeling like your more recent posting has vibes of "haha look at me i have towny thoughts processes and plans and paranoias" and less so like those things were genuine. like it feels like you care more about projecting that image of yourself than about the things themselves

and that response doesn't really help on that front

pedit: oh no, i'm townreading fire now???

this conversation right here: look at this. this is what i wanted to check. datisi goes from shading fire and suspecting him to townreading him when fire starts attacking irrelephant for his scumread of datisi

think this is just a straight-up pocket

[bloodhail]

I really do think that unless its like exactly mala/mk we're going wronf somewhere ....

full disclosure this made me want to convince you of irrel/std and then that made me paranoid that you said it in order to make me want to convince you

not a lasting paranoia but still

can you explain more of your thought process when you said this

it would make me feel better

i'm reading the iso, don't wanna quote a bunch or write a summary unfortunately

but this is the kind of thought i don't typically expect to see from scum unless they're exceptionally clever

[bloodhail]

mostly want to talk to datisi about it cause it felt like he had similar thoughts at first and then ended up at a townread somehow and im not sure why exactly

hi did you call for me

as the game was progressing, i felt more and more that my reasons for scumreading irrel were personal nonsense rather than actual good reasons and that if i tried to look at it from a neutral perspective, i could feel he actually was moving the game forward and being active in trying to solve it. like i plan to at least double check my work there this day phase but yeah not my first choice within the coalition i guess?

if you want me to look at something specific or just wanna jam for a bit, i should be around for an hour or so before i go to bed

as the game was progressing, i felt more and more that my reasons for scumreading irrel were personal nonsense rather than actual good reasons and that if i tried to look at it from a neutral perspective, i could feel he actually was moving the game forward and being active in trying to solve it. like i plan to at least double check my work there this day phase but yeah not my first choice within the coalition i guess?

i did feel like this at times which was why i ended up being ok with him being in bc i accepted i could just be wrong

but then when it failed, like... i don't really think it's anyone else?

idk i still think 427 is really scummy and im still surprised you don't, just the way he was kind of dodging your points and calling you town for making them instead is ew to me

i feel like he did an excellent reflective stepback on me in a way that seemed scummy

ugh see this is what i mean these points aren't even great how can i convince other people when i can't even explain why i think he's scum

did you check if he does this in other games by any chance? i see you said you were going to

only to the extent where i felt he was not out of his scumrange and that he does like to effort and be in control of things as scum, i didn't like do an in depth comparison between town and scum looking for tells

mostly cause its p stale meta since he hasn't played much in like years

hmm

that line from scum!irrel with no other scum in the coalition would only make sense if he was decently sure nobody would actually follow him on it. idk it lowkey feels like "vote me out today vote x out tomorrow" kinda thing if it's from scum - depending how hard he was being townread by everyone at that point... i'll think about it if/when i need to

i did feel like he was doing things that he felt people wouldn't follow him on, fwiw, especially when he was saying he was ok with being left out of the coalition

like i think that was p unlikely to ever happen

well that's just stellar. i should probably reassess my read on him while keeping in mind that i can't write things off as townie because "scum probably doesn't effort this much" or for similar reasons like that

ik you don't like secondhand meta but it was a pain to go through and find his scumgames so here was one that did have a good amount of effort to it if you want to look

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31377

there were other sequences in this iso i didn't quote because i didn't think they were super compelling but in general fire goes out of his way to lean on/talk to datisi in a way i wouldn't expect to see from teammates - looks a lot of the time like fire is genuinely interested in datisi's perspective/is trying to persuade him

it also feels like datisi is working his way towards an irrel vote based on fire's posting, which again strikes me as an unlikely interaction for scum partners to fake - he can just take that journey himself, he doesn't need to be persuaded. strikes me more as scum looking to piggyback on a townie's incorrect read

[fireisredsir]

also bloodhail ive listened to 3 of your pfp albums now and this one is my favorite

hmm wow pocketing much

it would be pocketing if i said i liked them all

bloodhail > skull > sideways suit man

sideways suit man was kinda meh imo

[fireisredsir]

Guys I got malakittens+datisi scumteam in my eye and I can't get it out

I'm not even really advocating that that's definitely the scumteam it's just like... stuck there in my large elephant eye

My trunk is not quite nimble enough to hepl, someone help

hm can you talk about this more

Sure yeah, elephant eyes are a little bigger than human eyes. Only a little, which might surprise you - roughly 150% the size of a human eye. I would have thought bigger but no

And elephant trunks can grab stuff but don't have, like, opposable thumbs, so it's hard to get in there without making things worse

ok well i was kind of feeling like your more recent posting has vibes of "haha look at me i have towny thoughts processes and plans and paranoias" and less so like those things were genuine. like it feels like you care more about projecting that image of yourself than about the things themselves

and that response doesn't really help on that front

pedit: oh no, i'm townreading fire now???

this conversation right here: look at this. this is what i wanted to check. datisi goes from shading fire and suspecting him to townreading him when fire starts attacking irrelephant for his scumread of datisi

think this is just a straight-up pocket

oh this is significant actually I had forgotten about this

specifically bc it came after irrel talking about datisi/mala

maybe he should have left that stuck in his eye

[bloodhail]

also bloodhail ive listened to 3 of your pfp albums now and this one is my favorite

hmm wow pocketing much

it would be pocketing if i said i liked them all

bloodhail > skull > sideways suit man

sideways suit man was kinda meh imo

oh you meant my avatars i thought you meant the HANL albums

well you disrespected james murphy so i have to yeet you now

(are you sure you're not unwnd lmao)

[fireisredsir]

can't be ive never even listened to death grips

[bloodhail]

okay, i'm done rereading fire, i don't have anything world-shattering beyond what i have already expressed in-thread, both from this latest skim and on past days. general conclusion is while it's not impossible he's scum i'd be pretty impressed, even if he was wrong the solving all looks genuine, i buy the thought processes he expresses as being real in terms of how he suspected my slot/mena and the way the read evolved there looked organic. the interactions with datisi also just don't look like something either would think to fake. you could maybe squint at the trajectory on datisi post my replace in as a (very well-done) pivot but that's about it. also had an opportunity to dunk me although i dunno that he could fake that turn believably, still worth considering


atp i'm spent, have nothing more useful to say, ready to vote nk15

[bloodhail]

VOTE: not known 15

E-2


should this not end the game: don't ever kill skitter, don't ever kill std.