Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[Rad]

Irrelevant response to my statements. Also, why give play advice to someone who you don't know is town? Why not let potential scum bury themself if you think my posts are so bad?

Coincidentally, it's 2am, so I'm going to bed. Enjoy your breathing time?

[Bellaphant]

@rad, what's scummy about anything you've mentioned in my iso? Possibly not following up with italiano, but he was replaced, and I know I want to reframe my question to bbt about page 7/8.

'shade' is also a really weird interpretation of 'i find vasex hard to read', which other people have said. I'm also reaching out to them to try and understand more.

It's day one. Noones reads need to be super clear - right now my strongest town read is cheap, then you and whiskey sit a bit above null, and then there's...everyone else.

Also, I think it's really obvious why I drop my vote, and I do explain it later to bbt. It's like you are looking at every post in tiny granular detail rather than looking at the flow.

Here I am givingpointless not game related info: I really like reading games backwards, especially after day one, as I find it easier to see progression.

...p-edit oh god.

[Rad]

@BlueBloodedToffee I think you were talking to me with that accidental quote? So in response, I don't want to park my vote on mq until she's had a chance to respond to everything that's happened since her last visit. She's a null read for me and maybe she's just busy and hasn't gotten a chance to participate.

I'm fine with not voting someone right now, we have time to let the lurkers catch up.

You went from this...

So something I like to do is take my heavy town reads and really scrutinize them.

So I looked at Bella. Why do I think Bella is town?

#6 - random vote
#16 - info about availability
#31 - nothing
#35 - talking about another game
#37 - talking about another game
#40 - gives some theory, points out the obvious that convo about vasex isn't helpful
#67 - agrees with me about vasex
#71 - points out the obvious that somnus martyring himself is a bad idea
#72 - says he town reads me and cheap
#76 - points out more obvious bad town moves. Sets himself up to elim vasex at some point when he gets tired of the memes
#78 - pressures somnus and...
#82 - unvotes somnus because somnus magically convinced him
#87 - is here in time to ask mq for input
#102 - suggests day 1 is a crapshoot and we shouldn't care about it. Questions Italiano's content but doesn't follow up on it.
#103 - random vote on mq bosco
#122 - new guy is in, time to talk about stuff outside the game
#139 - summarizes somnus's play, throws shade on me
#141 - clarifies mq bosco vote
#159 - throws more shade on me
#199 - weak question on BlueBloodedToffee (which was easily responded to by BlueBloodedToffee), throws shade on him
#201 - Keeps vasex open to elim, talks more about outside this game
#213 - talks more about another game

A note I have about Bella from early:

"Bellaphant & Somnus - not a scum team"

A scum!Bella makes a town!Somnus, town!Vasex, town!BlueBloodedToffee (maybe), and town!mq

I think my initial assessment of him was based on him making me feel correct in my reads. Trying to be more objective about this, I don't think that makes him town, and looking at his input for this game so far, I don't actually see him doing anything useful for town.

VOTE: Bellaphant

Sorry I don't know how to easily turn those #page references into a link. I was turning them into a link with my previous post by manually typing out the post code but there's too many here to do that. If there's a shortcut, please someone let me know

Now for Vasex, my other heavy town read:

#10 - random vote
#12 - town read on cheapside, joking
#14 - joke
#18 - joke
#19 - content creating question
#21 - answered Italiano's questions
#23 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#25 - joke
#26 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#32 - joke
#33 - joke
#48 - joke
#90 - town read on somnus
#105 - scum read on Italiano, and jokes
#143 - scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#145 - explanation of read, as a joke
#147 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#149 - town read on mq
#150 - trying to get cheapside to unvote somnus (cause he has town read on somnus)
#152 - listed town reads, reinforces scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#153 - edit by way of correction
#171 - clarifies mq town read with meta explanation, and scum read on italiano/BlueBloodedToffee
#174 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#176 - getting content out of BlueBloodedToffee
#178 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#186 - applying pressure to cheap with me
#187 - preserving town, guarding from bad wagons
#188 - explanation of not being active enough (but you are! it's ok vasex, you're doing great)
#208 - detailed explanation about mq

Awesome town play by vasex. OR he's scum team with mq, but I think he's just meta-ing that relationship too hard. I'm betting town here.

...to this within a couple of hours. you're definitely overthinking things but I think this probably makes you Town too.

Yes, I studied Bella's and Vasex's ISO and came up with a new read. Specifically on Bella. My original statement was that I wasn't comfortable in parking a policy vote on mq yet. I think parking a vote on a scum read is totally fine.

Thanks for the town props though.

[whiskey delta]

Irrelevant response to my statements. Also, why give play advice to someone who you don't know is town? Why not let potential scum bury themself if you think my posts are so bad?

Coincidentally, it's 2am, so I'm going to bed. Enjoy your breathing time?

I know your solve is wrong because I am not scum, so that's a nonstarter to begin with. I happen to disagree with your Bella read as well, and I think you had it right the other way around. The fact that you are reversing yours at the same time I am making my initial one is coincidental. But you picking that up and trying to run with it reads like a Townie jumping at shadows.

Your posts can be bad and you still be Town. I do it all the time

[Bellaphant]

ok, mq.bosco is townie

How are you getting this read? She has posted very little and her posts read null to me.

yeah it is difficult with her in every game
but she scumreads italiano a bit, and he votes her and he is lying that they are together in one PT, so I guess he is just scum, and she is not

Back to this - thanks for the meta info who's lying about the pt? Can you explain this, I'm clearly missing something

[whiskey delta]

Go to that page where 149 is and you'll see.

[whiskey delta]

Was expecting to come out of a BBT ISO with a SR but don't feel that way at all. The intro I feel is probably NAI for this player but Page 9 looks good - 200 & 202 feel Townish. Can't really explain beyond the tone but that suspicion seemed genuine.

[whiskey delta]

I'll do Spartan later

[Bellaphant]

Oh, ok, I was looking for the answer in the slot bbt replaced. That whole convo is more pointless than I was hoping!

I liked bbts early stuff and then I left the thread for a page and I felt it got a lot scummier, but it could be a response to pressure, as he seemed to think there were at least 3 slots scum reading him.

Those three scum reads kinda come out of nowhere too.

[Bellaphant]

Well, vasex's doesn't, but Spartans really seems to.

[Bellaphant]

Also, rereading rads' partner talk: this is really unhelpful, especially on day one. Scum!Bella can totally descalate scum!Somnus and there's nothing I've said to bbt. With my vote on msq, do you know whether I bus? Like...it's restrictive to get into these thought patterns early.

Day one is generally more useful post day one. Sometimes you have good instincts and then get talked out or them by the game!

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: spartan



Producing content but I don't get town pings

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Spartan

Will provide more soon. Glad to see the game is picking up, from a brief skim it looks like everybody is contributing now. Makes the game a lot easier

[Somnus]

Alright. I’m caught up and have some things I want to machine-gun respond to, but won’t be able to until later on today. I’ve got another degenerate nerd hobby that is going to take most of my focus this weekend due to a special event that I’m leading. Back later on today when I can pop in.

[whiskey delta]

Oh, ok, I was looking for the answer in the slot bbt replaced. That whole convo is more pointless than I was hoping!

I liked bbts early stuff and then I left the thread for a page and I felt it got a lot scummier, but it could be a response to pressure, as he seemed to think there were at least 3 slots scum reading him.

Those three scum reads kinda come out of nowhere too.

Yes it was lol

196 at the very end makes me question a little bit. And the “someone with more town cred” line was strange but I guess if he was actively counting how many scum reads he carried it makes more sense. BBT seems like the sort of player who enjoys that style and relishes the trolling a bit but after screwing around with those others he turned sharp pretty quick at your question. Just seems like a real reaction to me

I’ll need to reread that whole section again before commenting on the others

[whiskey delta]

Alright. I’m caught up and have some things I want to machine-gun respond to, but won’t be able to until later on today. I’ve got another degenerate nerd hobby that is going to take most of my focus this weekend due to a special event that I’m leading. Back later on today when I can pop in.

Have fun, nerd.

[Cheapside]

Don't have time to respond/answer stuff rn, but do really want to say:

Rad

: use the "post" button at the

top

in the post a reply screen - make sure you're not quick replying. Just highlight the number beforehand, and the forum software turns it into a link to that post number this game. Really quick. Or can just hit the post button and type your number in between the [ post ]s. Messing around with BBcode can really make your posts easier to read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I've actually read the first 5 pages and will give some thoughts. Apologies if it feels like we're going backwards for a moment, but bear with me. I'll try to keep this short.

I don't like Vasex entrance in the game. He mentions he has only been playing a week, complete newbie, but gives very assured town reads. It's like he is screaming 'Look at my reads, I'm so confident'. I'm not sure a complete newbie townie plays like this, 48 as an example. As such;

Vasex is pretty obviously town

I wouldn't mind Cheap expanding on this. Complete different viewpoint from myself and so I feel it's worth discussing, despite being early game. 69 feels town because the scum read on Somnus comes from his town read on Vasex which feels like an organic thought process. Again, it goes against how I was reading the early game though and this keeps niggling in the back of my mind. I don't know whether Cheap's posting style just looks townie and that is swaying me too much or whether I want to scum read him because he sees the game almost the complete opposite to how I'm reading it.

Somnus' entrance felt very townie to me until I looked at his recent games (42 is a good post). He seems an accomplished scum player from the small sample size and this is as much a reminder to myself more than anything else to stop clinging onto an early town read as there are posts I don't like that I will go into.

I didn't like Bella's 40. I see no reason for a player of Bella's experience to try and stop the game progressing out of RVS. We all know it's usually the smallest thing that someone points out in RVS that gets the game moving, yet Bella tries to derail this. 72 also feels like a disappointed post, like she is forced to have town reads because of an interaction. I don't know, she just doesn't seem very happy that she gained two town reads? This post is weird.

62 from Rad isn't great either. The whole WKing situation was icky - acting as if an RVS suspicion is going to lead to a lynch.

68 Is the first post from Somnus I don't like - it's the old 'I'm so town you can lynch me today'. 74 is just as bad, saying he is playing scummy and is aware he is playing scummy but doesn't care because he is so town? 77 Somnus refers to himself as LHF, yikes. 3 posts from Somnus in a short space of time that are really bad. There were multiple lurkers in the game at this point and Somnus was nowhere near LHF. On the flip side, he wasn't really coming under any pressure so I don't know where this freak out come from? I mean, there is *some* pressure from Bella, but meh, I don't like this reaction. Which means this;

UNVOTE:

That was was I needed.

Really caught my attention. What did you get from this Bella because whatever you got is the complete opposite from what I'm getting.

88 Not much to go on from mq, but this isn't good. Fluffy post, read on Somnus is meh, Bella is town, why? Why is joking AI for Vasex (I believe these two know each other if I remember right?)

91 Good from Rad, no reason for scum to post this really. Doesn't get a lot of town cred from a scum!Rad. Feels genuine.

104 Another poor post from Somnus. Acts like nothing has happened since he had last posted which is not at all true but allows him to 'catch up' without contributing all that much. In the space between his posts, Rad had posted 83 which could have generated some discussion, mq had posted for the first time (chance for an interaction) and there was the back and forth with my slot and somebody else.

Summing up those first 5 pages; where are the townies at? Next 5 pages coming soon

[Bellaphant]

Bbt, we clearly aren't getting each other. I think my progression from 40's 'i don't want to deal with ten pages about what is a joke about russian hackers' through to confusion over whether Somnus even thought what they thought or were just generating content, to them actually engaging with me properly (and reaching out with info about how I could read them as they'd just specces my game) is pretty obvious? There was also a pretty marked tone shift from Somnus, from 'i have a shit take and I'll defend it to the end and also scum are using it against me', to something that looked really pro town in his later explanation. I thought you'd remember that I much prefer to talk to people one on one - I guess I liked that I felt he actually wanted me to understand, rather than just convince me. (which would've felt more scummy). Also, I was disappointed in the middle: not with town reads but by the fact we were still. Talking. About. Russian. Hackers.

I agree he wasn't under massive pressure, but I don't think that his freak out was scummy. You say he's an accomplished scum player but I'm not sure what an accomplished scum player gets out of what was essentially a tantrum?

[Bellaphant]

Also, if you are going to 'throw shade' at my slot, you should probably stop sheeping my votes

[Somnus]

Alright. I don't want an ugly, massive wallpost, so you're going to have to allow me to spam 5 or 6 posts here while I have a bit of time.

chepside, could you please stop voting somnus? i don't think anybody of you two is a scum

I dunno. This is starting to feel borderline TMI at this point. It's not this post merely in isolation itself that I have the issue with.

[Somnus]

What is your opinion of your scum-game, Somnus?

Generally cautious Day 1 because losing 1 of the 2 maf in a 9'er on Day 1 is an absolute disaster. Usually open up more as the game progresses. I dunno. Exciting but stressful.

I will say that even though I have a slight scum read on you, your sort of reckless activity was the thing making you just suspicious to me instead of a straight out vote. So it's nice to hear you explain what I thought I could be seeing. That said, another explanation is you're tired of being mafia and in order to avoid the stress, you're just going to yolo this game.

Coming out of your last game as scum, before you got your role for this game, how were you planning on approaching this game if you drew scum again? I remember pulling mafia a few games in a row back in the day and remember this thought weighing heavily on my mind when deciding if i wanted to even join another game or give it a break for a while.

I wouldn't have signed up again if I were terrified of rolling scum again. I don't sign up for games to half-ass it depending on which alignment I get. I took 5 weeks off after my last game because of rolling nothing but scum. I've talked about it in the mafia private thread from Newbie 2092, post-game in Newbie 2092, and in a thread I created a couple days before this game started called "Red Roll Fatigue".

[Somnus]

@rad, I said most of what I wanted to say in response to bbt about you ; I like your longer, content posts but your 'wake up town' and trying to extend rqs feels really pointless and 'look at me, I'm so town' (lamist).

This often (but not always) is a scum tell. Sometimes it's just a personality thing. In the one off-site game I mentioned that was barely mafia, it was a theme game and we all had characters. The mod had made it very clear that character names matter. I was the only one pushing for character reveal on day 1 (not role reveal, just character) because it would have all but made the game auto for town (setups there don't exactly have reviews for balance). One player freaked out and said it was against the rules to reveal and refused (it wasn't), and followed it up with "JESUS TOWN, WAKE UP!". Not surprisingly, that player was scum.

[Somnus]

Aw man, the above is a really bad post.

Did you ever say what specifically you hated about 171? I may have missed it. I just saw you asking for someone with more "town-cred" to explain why. I don't know that I'm that person.

[Somnus]

So something I like to do is take my heavy town reads and really scrutinize them.

So I looked at Bella. Why do I think Bella is town?

#6 - random vote
#16 - info about availability
#31 - nothing
#35 - talking about another game
#37 - talking about another game
#40 - gives some theory, points out the obvious that convo about vasex isn't helpful
#67 - agrees with me about vasex
#71 - points out the obvious that somnus martyring himself is a bad idea
#72 - says he town reads me and cheap
#76 - points out more obvious bad town moves. Sets himself up to elim vasex at some point when he gets tired of the memes
#78 - pressures somnus and...
#82 - unvotes somnus because somnus magically convinced him
#87 - is here in time to ask mq for input
#102 - suggests day 1 is a crapshoot and we shouldn't care about it. Questions Italiano's content but doesn't follow up on it.
#103 - random vote on mq bosco
#122 - new guy is in, time to talk about stuff outside the game
#139 - summarizes somnus's play, throws shade on me
#141 - clarifies mq bosco vote
#159 - throws more shade on me
#199 - weak question on BlueBloodedToffee (which was easily responded to by BlueBloodedToffee), throws shade on him
#201 - Keeps vasex open to elim, talks more about outside this game
#213 - talks more about another game

This EXACT style of note-taking every little thing is what I did in my first game on-site as scum and it got me hardcore town-read. Never had a vote on me the entire game. Pull up my ISO from Newbie 2087 and take a brief look, particularly Days 1 and 2. Something to consider.