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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:49 am

Post by Somnus »

Can't be bothered to properly quote from the spoiler tag, but from Cheapside:
My first few posts were made to keep Somnus generating original content, if that's any help.
This isn't the only time that you've tried to take credit for me being an active presence in the game based on a page 1 RVS vote. By the looks of it, you had a grand total of 3 posts in this game when I was last on yesterday morning.

Straight-up: I borderline forgot you were in this game. Yeah, my attention is primarily occupied elsewhere this weekend, but that's the truth. Someone mentioned in a post yesterday (I think it was Vasex?) the name "Cheap". My thought process:

1.) "Who's that?"
2.) "Oh, is that a nickname for Bella based on her avatar?"
3.) "Oh, right, there is a player with that name in this game"

Why was Vasex politely asking you to unvote me enough to get you to do so?
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:52 am

Post by Somnus »

In post 243, Bellaphant wrote:Bbt, we clearly aren't getting each other. I think my progression from 40's 'i don't want to deal with ten pages about what is a joke about russian hackers' through to confusion over whether Somnus even thought what they thought or were just generating content, to them actually engaging with me properly (and reaching out with info about how I could read them as they'd just specces my game) is pretty obvious? There was also a pretty marked tone shift from Somnus, from 'i have a shit take and I'll defend it to the end and also scum are using it against me', to something that looked really pro town in his later explanation. I thought you'd remember that I much prefer to talk to people one on one - I guess I liked that I felt he actually wanted me to understand, rather than just convince me. (which would've felt more scummy). Also, I was disappointed in the middle: not with town reads but by the fact we were still. Talking. About. Russian. Hackers.

I agree he wasn't under massive pressure, but I don't think that his freak out was scummy. You say he's an accomplished scum player but I'm not sure what an accomplished scum player gets out of what was essentially a tantrum?
There was no tantrum, and coming from someone who hasn't even really been scum-reading you in this game, it's starting to feel like you're intentionally misinterpreting what happened. For something you and several other players have been adamant about dropping, you sure seem to be bringing it up time and time again and using every opportunity to take shots at me over a philosophical difference of opinion. I've been respectful to you, even when I've disagreed. You're being extremely petty and childish, and it's not productive. Get off the high-horse about "Somnus interacted with me properly after that, so I'll let it slide."
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:54 am

Post by Somnus »

Quick temporary reads:

Town: Spartan, BlueBlooded
Null: Whiskey, Bella, Bosco, Vasex
Scum: Rad, Cheapside


Lord help me that the only two people I'm town-leaning at the moment replaced in roughly 24 hours ago. Rad/Cheapside not likely scum-theater, so likely not partnered, but I'm obviously not trying to nail down an exact team right now.

I'm not voting for someone who has 3 posts and has given us nothing to work with. If this pattern continues on Day 2, I'll revisit. A potential green flip there gives no one anything to work with so far.

I'll pop in over the next two days when I can, but I'll have more time again starting Monday.

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:08 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Spartan attributes Vasex for getting the game out of RVS when I feel it was actually Somnus that did that. Probably nothing much, but definitely worth noting.

Flimsy from Vasex, looks like contributing with reads but with very little thoughts/reasoning. It's extremely easy for him to backtrack on these at any second should he need to.

Poor post from Spartan and I don't fully understand the vote on Rad. Lots of theory posting as well which is a nice, easy way for scum to enter an ongoing game.

Good from Rad, something I was looking for with my entrance. Surprisingly, not many other people picked up on what I was doing, or at least didn't feel strong enough to push it which is intriguing. I wouldn't expect scum to be the first to push it and so this gives me a decent town read on Rad. I was wondering if others would follow up and how they went about it but there wasn't much. Except for one thing, which I'll come to shortly.

This post has me flip-flopping all over the place on Cheap. He mirrors an early thought I had about a Bella/Somnus scum team which I like, however I can't understand his town read on Vasex (the reasoning was Vasex TR Cheap so Cheap thinks Vasex must be town?) The read on Spartan feels really awkwardly worded as well, I can't put my finger on why. The read on me is non-commital, I think Scum!Cheap can take this stance and position himself to join my wagon if needed.

Rad, can you expand on your reservations regarding Cheap, please?

Now, I mentioned earlier about scum using my entrance/posting style as an opportunity to push me and I also mentioned I wouldn't expect scum to start the push as Rad did. What I would expect scum to do it position themselves to join my wagon should the opportunity arise. Like this;
In post 189, Spartan117 wrote: Are you trying to get Vasex to put Rad to
E-1
so your scumbuddy can quickhammer him on accident?

Also your reasoning on scumreading him for your vote is very watery in
In post 193, Spartan117 wrote: It's very OMGUS isn't it.
Spartan doesn't like my vote but sits on the same wagon as me anyway. Continues to throw shade my way and angle for my wagon, but doesn't commit. This could very easily be scum positioning themselves ready to vote. Voting is a pretty big deal for scum.

Early page 9 from Bella was poor but I'm not sure if not following the game is AI. I really wouldn't expect Scum!Bella to push me in any way at all though, so, :shrug:

{post]205[/post] Rad has very little reason to leave my wagon here, especially with the positioning from Spartan previously. Some posts of Rad's rub me the wrong way but I think I'm going commit to a town read on Rad.

This is really good from Cheap. The whole pushing for a policy lynch is super dangerous as scum and I just wouldn't expect it. The analysis and vote on Spartan is really good, second town read.

Another one of those posts from Rad that just rub me the wrong way. On the face of it, a very town looking post (reevaluating reads etc) but I don't understand questioning yourt strong town reads (especially on Day One). Maybe it's just a difference of playstyle but the announcement of it and the 'this is what I like to do' feels bad. On the flip side, it's an in-depth read and it's difficult to do this consistently as scum. Let's see how this progresses through the game.

What did you like about Whiskey?

Rad, I would like you to read my thoughts on Spartan and reconsider your read on him.

Good from Whiskey, I like this. Why did you think my entrance was NAI, Whiskey?

and Yay Bella! This is a good spot.

Alright, I'm reasonably happy with my town reads on Rad and Cheap. I think Bella and maybe Whiskey can be town, too.

We're getting somewhere.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:10 am

Post by Bellaphant »

Hey, I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across, tantrum was a bad word choice. I think you are town and I really like your content: other people keep asking me about the thing we both want to drop.

Did you spec the newbie that to2, ash, GM and I were in before the one you did?
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:14 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

mq.bosco has been prodded. She has 24 hours to make a game-relevant post or I'll be forced to replace her.

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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:14 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 245, Somnus wrote:
In post 150, Vasex wrote:chepside, could you please stop voting somnus? i don't think anybody of you two is a scum
I dunno. This is starting to feel borderline TMI at this point. It's not this post merely in isolation itself that I have the issue with.
Good stuff.
In post 248, Somnus wrote: Did you ever say what specifically you hated about 171? I may have missed it. I just saw you asking for someone with more "town-cred" to explain why. I don't know that I'm that person.
I didn't actually. It was basing his reads off of other reads with no real basis behind them.

He scum reads me (with no reasons) and because of this scum read, he town reads MQ. The town read on MQ falls apart if I'm not scum and allows an easy reversal.

Two 'solid' reads with very little behind them.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:16 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Alright Bella, I don't understand the progression on Somnus and you didn't respond to my accusation of you trying to prolong RVS but I also don't want to get into it because I think you're probably town and I'm happy for us to lynch Spartan.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:11 am

Post by Bellaphant »

I didn't really understand that about RVs?
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:16 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Basically, Somnus caught into something that could progress the game out of the RVS stage but you didn't seem to want that to happen and wanted to shut down any discussion.

I understand it wasn't anything massive and it wasn't an omega scum tell but it was *something* to progress the game and get it moving.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:33 am

Post by Spartan117 »

In post 213, Bellaphant wrote:Not to be all Somnus, but @spartan, can you link me to the newbie we did together? I can't seem to find it.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61471

I think this is it here although its nothing of note, looking at the actual thread I don't think I was able to participate.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:36 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Hi Spartan,

What are your current thoughts on the game state?
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:43 am

Post by Bellaphant »

Omg that was my perfect tracker game!

But yes, please address the thread

@bbt, I feel I have answered that. And two other people responded the same
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:45 am

Post by Vasex »

im active now in large normal 239 (alt over90) , quite busy there , there is the end of day one, i will catch up here later , guys

don't listen to me much here, about my town/scum reads, i need to read quite a lot here and to update opinion here, i will be later
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:46 am

Post by Vasex »

and once again please - don't hurry up with 5 votes anywhere before i read
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:47 am

Post by Vasex »

In post 255, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
mq.bosco has been prodded. She has 24 hours to make a game-relevant post or I'll be forced to replace her.

typical bosco for any role :lol:
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:29 am

Post by Spartan117 »

In post 211, Cheapside wrote:Hm. I understand that other games might take up a lot of time, but if mq doesn't have a certain amount of content by end of day, she will be a policy elimination. Lurking is a very powerful scum strategy in low-power setups if town allows it - if you never say anything, there's nothing to vote you out on. Seven days to go though, so not unduly concerned.
I agree with your sentiment here, having someone lurking is unhelpful D1 but late game can be very costly as it is much easier for the scum team to shove on a non-committal player. like you said we have lots of time and I want them to have a chance to comment and share their thoughts, I am interested to see what they think on what has happened so far.
In post 211, Cheapside wrote:partan,, your posts thus far have consisted of a pointlessly brief summary of the Vasex/Somnus convo 137, lot of noncomittal townreads154 with a vote on Rad, a somewhat repetitive push on Rad 184 with an unexplained statement about rad/blue, a bit of thrown-out speculation you never follow up on 189, a small question 190, a random comment 193, and some very amiable mafia theory with Rad 197.

So the interaction with Rad was useful, as it put them under pressure, but you haven't really done anything else this game except give unprompted mafia theory and look very active. The stronger player you ostensibly think is scum you've left almost entirely alone. I wouldn't call your interactions with Blue scumhunting because you let him ignore you.

Do you plan to actually scumhunt/pressure anyone, VOTE: Spartan117?
The pointlessly brief summary you are referring to was my first post and I think its fair I have a bit of time to read through everything and share my initial thoughts as I process everything, I guess thats just how I process things.

My vote on Rad in my second post was to set up for my follow up explanation of my thoughts on him in 184, but I can see where you are coming from. As regards to and I can't unfortunately force them to respond to me but have intended to follow up when I had time.

The unexplained statement in I left purposefully as I wanted someone to pick up on it. At that moment in time I wasnt too comfortable with what Rad had posted which is what I had pointed out above, since then I have liked more of their posts . I not explained much on my thoughts on BBT as I had not had the time to read through fully in depth although from skimming through their posts a few things felt off, which I will address. What do you think @Cheapside about the interactions between Rad and BBT?

I am surprised you think I've been looking very active, I've felt like I havent been active anywhere near enough, and I'm not afraid to call myself out on that.

I still need to spend more time analysing Bellas posts which I intend to do tomorrow time permitting, and that I dont get eliminated by a quickhammer.

We have another 7 days left of Day 1 so loads of time left, no need for anyone to get trigger happy.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:30 am

Post by Spartan117 »

In post 220, Rad wrote:I looked through Spartan's posts again.

He's new to the game so hasn't had a chance to play much (7 posts). The guy he replaced made no posts.

He's already given some significant stances (voted me, pressuring BlueBloodedToffee, pressuring Vasex, town read on Somnus)

He's given town more material in 7 posts than Bella has in 23.

Let's say he's scum and survives Day 1. He's already established what kind of input he plans to give to this game. This level of input is really difficult to continue in late game as scum. And @Cheap if your assessment of him is correct, that he's being mostly useless, he won't be able to dig himself out of that.

@Cheap - what do you think of Bella and my read on him? What do you think about changing your vote from Spartan to Bella?
Why do you feel the need to try and defend me so heavily even to the point to ask Cheapside to take their vote off me?

I understand why it is too early for BBT to seem to Scumlock me and want to eliminate me after 7 posts as shown in his 257 below, but at the same time is it also not too soon to have such a strong town read on me after only 7 posts to try and defend me to such a degree to try and get someone else to take their vote off me,
maybe I'm happy here sitting at E-1
:cool: sometimes it's nice to live in the danger zone aha
In post 257, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm happy for us to lynch Spartan.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:32 am

Post by Spartan117 »

In post 261, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Hi Spartan,

What are your current thoughts on the game state?
Currently? I think its very interesting you put me to E-1 with this...
In post 237, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Spartan

Will provide more soon. Glad to see the game is picking up, from a brief skim it looks like everybody is contributing now. Makes the game a lot easier ;)
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:38 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I'll wait to see your contributions when you're fully caught up. Vastly underwhelmed, but not surprised, right now.

You're not 1 vote from hammer yet anyway. My vote was 3rd vote I believe.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:42 am

Post by Bellaphant »

In post 262, Bellaphant wrote:Omg that was my perfect tracker game!

But yes, please address the thread

@bbt, I feel I have answered that. And two other people responded the same
I didn't actually ask my question here: I'm one of three voices talking to Somnus about the same thing. Why is it particularly bad from me?
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:45 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Is that for me Bella?

If so, can you quote/link the 3 messages you're referring to please?
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:46 am

Post by Rad »

Morning everyone!

- @Spartan I was trying to get Cheap's thoughts on my read on Bella, which I considered a stronger scum read. My reasoning was in "He's given town more material in 7 posts than Bella has in 23."

I never said I have a strong town read on you. I don't, actually. You're kinda null, leaning scum. Notice in I pointed out: "I've been thinking similar things about Spartan that you're pointing out." Compared to my thoughts about Bella, and our lurker mq, I don't see why I would vote you at this stage because again, I do feel you're at least presenting some content that we can look at in a later day and analyze. I was never defending you, I was pushing a Bella elim.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:58 am

Post by Spartan117 »

In post 257, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Alright Bella, I don't understand the progression on Somnus and you didn't respond to my accusation of you trying to prolong RVS but I also don't want to get into it because I think you're probably town and I'm happy for us to lynch Spartan.
You're happy to eliminate someone who has made 7 posts? how very townie of you?


Your votes seem to shift like the wind in a hurricane, I'm not even certain if you yourself know where your next move will be?
In post 210, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Yeah, I get that.

Usually, you get better content from people when they are more likely to feel under pressure to produce something.

Be brave.
I like that you understand the need to apply pressure with votes to get people to produce content which is pretty standard but I don't feel like when you vote you come with any gumption it always seems pretty week and often sheeping on the back of a wagon without any originality of your own.
In post 170, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Mod, can we get a VC on next page please?
You asked our mod here for a Vote count total which you got in (so you cant claim to not know of the vote tally) then after Cheapside voted me with a breakdown of his reasoning in
We see Rad vote Bella in and then ask cheapside to change their vote from me to Bella in which while I didn't like I could imagine Bella getting worried about a train forming on her and before Cheapside is able to respond to Rad she votes me with her reasoning being she doesnt get town pings and that my scum read of BBT comes out of nowhere not taking into account it was my second post on the forum. Surely for my scum read to come out of nowhere I would have needed to had frequently posted before and interacted with BBT and my stance on him to suddenly change without any explanation?
In post 233, Bellaphant wrote:he seemed to think there were at least 3 slots scum reading him.

Those three scum reads kinda come out of nowhere too.
In post 234, Bellaphant wrote:Well, vasex's doesn't, but Spartans really seems to.
I then thought it was very interesting that after Bella votes me to build a wagon and get the attention off her, like clockwork BBT jumps on the wagon putting me to E-1 with his post below, baring in mind he had asked for a vote count and waited till cheapside and bella had voted to jump on with again no reasoning, if it was to apply pressure to get someone moving etc fair enough but this is an E-1 post without announcing it hoping someone joins the wagon and accidentily hammers me...
In post 237, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Spartan

Will provide more soon. Glad to see the game is picking up, from a brief skim it looks like everybody is contributing now. Makes the game a lot easier ;)
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sat Jun 04, 2022 4:04 am

Post by Rad »

In post 226, Bellaphant wrote:@rad, what's scummy about anything you've mentioned in my iso? Possibly not following up with italiano, but he was replaced, and I know I want to reframe my question to bbt about page 7/8.
I think you could have added some follow up question with Italiano in trying to get a better understanding of the interaction you thought was weird. Like... scum hunt some man, don't just pass off a thought and not follow up.

What's scummy in general in your ISO is your lack of generating useful town content. No real scum hunting. Throwing shade without taking any real stance. I mean, look at my interpretation of your input thus far, I clearly do not believe you're doing anything useful and I spelled that out in post .

If you're town, please don't sit here and be some complacent observer. The "there isn't much to do day 1" and "you can't have a good read day 1" arguments should be gone now with how much stuff has happened.
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