Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[Spartan117]

No, I think it's a bit shit, but it also could have been a mistake, same as mine was. If I didn't know it was e-2, it's just as reasonable that he missed it too.

I felt like the scum reads on bbt piled on pretty quick and yours seemed to have the least behind in..you may say that's because you had less posts in total, but it also seemed a very weird, very quick pile on.

The same way you and rad seemed to have piled on me. I dislike 'bella thought' and 'bella acted' and then seeing things that are totally unrecognisable to me: I don't think that's unreasonable.

@rad, I believe that. It was also, in context, a comment on you doing a 180 on a read based on massively over thinking it, which I think was also pointed out by whiskey delta. It's not s controversial statement.

I simply don't agree, when putting a vote on right after someone else you should always check and make sure you aren't putting them on E-1, while I do also typically put E-2 if my vote is putting someone there, putting someone to E-2 isnt putting someone in range of a quickhammer and thus much worse.

Its not just about less posts in total it was my second post on here as I joined late and had to catch up. So scum reading me purely because I put some feelers out there on a scum read to be the basis of your scum read on me is very weak indeed.

Honestly bella I was town reading you initially from when I was skimming through I still need to read through in more detail but I agreed with what I read from Rad and that along with the coincidence of the votes placed on you to the next page with you jumping on me for a reason of I scum read BBT in my second post... its just fishy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh my. The appeasement.

I believe Spartan is appealing to your *reasonable* side Bella.

Can we lynch this guy already?

[Spartan117]

Scum wouldn't be this blatant, right? They wouldn't both pile on at the same time, and re use the literal same words.


Right?

Maybe so obviously not something scum would do, that scum would try and get away with it.

[whiskey delta]

This EXACT style of note-taking every little thing is what I did in my first game on-site as scum and it got me hardcore town-read. Never had a vote on me the entire game. Pull up my ISO from Newbie 2087 and take a brief look, particularly Days 1 and 2. Something to consider.

Did you likewise take your notes, link them to a player with a handful of posts, and then shove that solve onto another slot and ask them to vote with you?

The notes alone can be scum!busy work. The latter feels more like try harding town to me

[Rad]

185 Rad, can you expand on your reservations regarding Cheap, please?

At that stage, I had a couple issues with him

38 claiming vasex is obviously town. No way. No one's obviously town that quickly. But as scum, you already know who's town, so a scum!Cheap knows that town!Vasex is being a goofball town and it's easy to think that this AI is obvious to everyone else as well. If Cheap is scum, this comment about vasex is actually a scum slip IMO.

But, Cheap could still be town there thinking goofball vasex is town. I mean, that's how I was viewing vasex at that stage (as a goofball town), but i try to stop myself from believing too much in my initial thoughts, no matter how much they make sense to me. He clearly didn't do that and read vasex as town hard enough that he wanted to announce it to everyone.

Second, his 69 just sort of summarized what somnus was doing at a stage where basically the only thing that had happened was somnus stuff. It just hit me like... Ok, thanks for the summary of what everyone should already know!

Then in 156 he spells out his reads. Couldn't tell if this was town being useful or scum trying to look useful. I think him dropping the somnus vote like he did was questionable. Also his vote on me felt like weak reasoning and I'm sure I got a little OMGUS on him lol. ALSO at that stage I was very anti-BBT and he was throwing shade on Italiano while simultaneously hyping you (BBT) up as a strong vet that won't be easy to read D1 (giving you a D1 pass essentially). Felt kinda scum-teamy to me given I was seeing you as scum.

So yeah I had a town read on him but wanted to keep an eye on how his input progressed throughout the game.

[Bellaphant]

Scum wouldn't be this blatant, right? They wouldn't both pile on at the same time, and re use the literal same words.


Right?

Maybe so obviously not something scum would do, that scum would try and get away with it.

??? You and rad have both flung the same accusation at me and bbt in the same words. Ive never seen anything like it before. I can't work out what on earth it means though.

....I like bbt better when they are talking to me and rad better when they are not.

[Spartan117]

Oh my. The appeasement.

I believe Spartan is appealing to your *reasonable* side Bella.

Can we lynch this guy already?

You really just love to prevent conversation don't you, why are you being so Anti-Town? You have some serious tunnel vision goggles on there

I hope it didnt hurt you too much when Whiskey took their RVS vote off me

Like I said already I really don't care if I get Eliminated Day 1 if it provides the necessary means for town to find and convict scum then I'm all for it, in this case I would highly recommend a Day 2 elimination on you BBT, its pretty clear to me you wont be killed Night 1...

Now, I'm done for the day, if I check in and I've been eliminated then so be it, I just hope the others get the chance to share what they wanted before the days out.

[Spartan117]

Scum wouldn't be this blatant, right? They wouldn't both pile on at the same time, and re use the literal same words.


Right?

Maybe so obviously not something scum would do, that scum would try and get away with it.

??? You and rad have both flung the same accusation at me and bbt in the same words. Ive never seen anything like it before. I can't work out what on earth it means though.

....I like bbt better when they are talking to me and rad better when they are not.

Could you like BBT better when they are talking to you because they are trying to pocket you? Just a consideration for Day 2

[BlueBloodedToffee]

38 claiming vasex is obviously town. No way. No one's obviously town that quickly. But as scum, you already know who's town, so a scum!Cheap knows that town!Vasex is being a goofball town and it's easy to think that this AI is obvious to everyone else as well. If Cheap is scum, this comment about vasex is actually a scum slip IMO.

You have no problem with Vasex doing the exact same thing but with much less reasoning/thoughts behind said reads?

Second, his 69 just sort of summarized what somnus was doing at a stage where basically the only thing that had happened was somnus stuff. It just hit me like... Ok, thanks for the summary of what everyone should already know!

I thought 69 was OK, his reads seemed organic in terms of how he was forming them (even if I didn't agree with them)

Then in 156 he spells out his reads. Couldn't tell if this was town being useful or scum trying to look useful. I think him dropping the somnus vote like he did was questionable. Also his vote on me felt like weak reasoning and I'm sure I got a little OMGUS on him lol. ALSO at that stage I was very anti-BBT and he was throwing shade on Italiano while simultaneously hyping you (BBT) up as a strong vet that won't be easy to read D1 (giving you a D1 pass essentially). Felt kinda scum-teamy to me given I was seeing you as scum.

OK, so if you can't tell town or scum from reads post then it's surely null?

What did you find questionable about his Somnus vote? And have you managed to get around to my posts regarding Spartan yet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spartan, you're going to disappear without addressing my accusations to you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You really just love to prevent conversation don't you, why are you being so Anti-Town? You have some serious tunnel vision goggles on there

I hope it didnt hurt you too much when Whiskey took their RVS vote off me

What makes you think I'm being anti-town? I do have tunnel vision though, I would love to see you lynched in the next 3 pages.

It did hurt, actually. I will be trying my very best to get not only that vote back on but one more vote, too.

[whiskey delta]

215 Good from Whiskey, I like this. 231 Why did you think my entrance was NAI, Whiskey?

Idk how I messed that up but the Bella post I meant to point out was 199.

I went into a bit more detail afterwards but essentially you seem like the type who just enjoys doing things in the game to make people react/SR you early on. You also seem seasoned enough to know that is your normal shtick and would try to follow that as either alignment, hence NAI. I don’t consider much of your stuff pre-Bella double take to be serious but your reaction in that spot took me out of “doing things for the sake of it” range that I was considering on first skim

[Spartan117]

Spartan, you're going to disappear without addressing my accusations to you?

What accusations? saying you have accusations without linking anything or referring be back to anything does nothing....

All of your posts to me are about how much you want to "lynch" me and end the day without any actual reasoning..

I'll wait to see your contributions when you're fully caught up. Vastly underwhelmed, but not surprised, right now.

But I don't care. You're L-1. So what? Do something.

15 pages would be a decent sweet spot and we've had a good amount of content from Day One now. I'm ready for Day Two.

Noooooo Whiskey, why unvote?

You're right. A vote with absolutely no explanation usually flies right under the radar

If you don't think I have provided content, I'm cool with that.

Can we lynch this guy already?

I do have tunnel vision though, I would love to see you lynched in the next 3 pages.

Did I miss something? I dont see you sharing any "accusations" with me? must be in your pt you seem rather blood thirsty to me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll do Spartan later

[BlueBloodedToffee]

253 Spartan.

[Rad]

You have no problem with Vasex doing the exact same thing but with much less reasoning/thoughts behind said reads?

I view early game vasex similar to how I'm justifying your game entry. Townie behavior to stir up the pot and see what comes of it. I don't take his stated reads all that seriously because he could just be saying whatever to get readable reactions. I also don't think he's a newbie. My main concern with him has to do with his unwavering defense of mq for no clear reason.

OK, so if you can't tell town or scum from reads post then it's surely null?

What did you find questionable about his Somnus vote? And have you managed to get around to my posts regarding Spartan yet?

I felt his UNVOTE of somnus was weak and his redirect to vote for me was also weak.

I lean town on Cheap. It's a difficult read though for me, due to reasons I've stated.

I'm working my way to your spartan stuff...

[whiskey delta]

I'll do Spartan later

I'll get there. I am currently mulling over whether I think their OMGUS is genuine or if they are trying to soapbox on the "proper Town play" and speed hammer fearmongering to SR you/Bella.

[whiskey delta]

Also squinting at Somnus right now. I can see what he means by "hey, I did this recently as scum" but I think that dumbs down the intent too much and doesn't taken into account all the rest of Rad's play that goes along with his notes/reevaluation. If it were just the notes, then I would agree, but in this context it looks like an attempt to smear.

[Spartan117]

253 Spartan.

Pretty weak, not much to it is there...

You think I'm scum because

1. I joined the game and started talking theory in my second post as SE into a newbie game?
2. I pointed out in 189 that you was trying to coax a newer player into putting someone to E-1 (notice a trent...) and my genuine concern about your scum buddy quickhammering after, and that I thought your reasoning for your scum read was watery. Did you take it personally?
3. That I sit on same wagon as him (where I was the one who had voted for Rad first...) when I don't like his vote (it was clear that I didnt like the way you voted and jumped on not who you was voting for, and how you was trying to coax a quick elim on page 8!) you say voting is a pretty big deal for scum, is that why you throw your vote around like it doesn't matter to see where it will stick?

And thats it! everything else is about other people, thats enough for you to want to eliminate me and end the day and the discussion as soon as possible?

Pretty poor basis to hold your whole case against me.

[Rad]

Also squinting at Somnus right now. I can see what he means by "hey, I did this recently as scum" but I think that dumbs down the intent too much and doesn't taken into account all the rest of Rad's play that goes along with his notes/reevaluation. If it were just the notes, then I would agree, but in this context it looks like an attempt to smear.

I dunno, I get a townie read from somnus for it. A first time town!Somnus is going to look at his successful scum play to find scum, and a town!Somnus claiming he sees me doing the same thing means he truly believes his claim. It could be a scum!Somnus throwing shit to see what sticks though, for sure, but it's reasonable to believe he's town!Somnus spotting similarities.

I think a town!Somnus should really think about it harder. Good scum play emulates town play. So good on you Somnus for pulling that off as scum. You should notice though that it also means that stuff like taking notes, analyzing, reanalyzing, and sharing my thoughts along the way is a townie thing to do. If it wasn't, why would you have tried to emulate that as scum? So am I doing it as an honest townie, or am I scum trying to look useful like you did in your scum game? Am I adding to the town or muddying the waters? Base your read on stuff like that rather than "he's doing a thing I did when I was scum."

[Rad]

@BBT - I looked through your stuff. I didn't find anything about Spartan that would convince me to change my vote. I already view him as scummy but there are better votes right now IMO (if not Bella, then mq). I need to catch up on his latest stuff though since I'm still reading through stuff that happened when I was sleeping last night.

It appears that no one else is really siding with me on my Bella scum read besides Spartan? That's probably cause for me to reconsider.

Scum wouldn't be this blatant, right? They wouldn't both pile on at the same time, and re use the literal same words.


Right?

Bella can you point out where we're using the same language? I haven't noticed anything like that and I'd have to re-read all of my own posts to figure it out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

253 Spartan.

Pretty weak, not much to it is there...

You think I'm scum because

1. I joined the game and started talking theory in my second post as SE into a newbie game?
2. I pointed out in 189 that you was trying to coax a newer player into putting someone to E-1 (notice a trent...) and my genuine concern about your scum buddy quickhammering after, and that I thought your reasoning for your scum read was watery. Did you take it personally?
3. That I sit on same wagon as him (where I was the one who had voted for Rad first...) when I don't like his vote (it was clear that I didnt like the way you voted and jumped on not who you was voting for, and how you was trying to coax a quick elim on page 8!) you say voting is a pretty big deal for scum, is that why you throw your vote around like it doesn't matter to see where it will stick?

Wait, what? My page 11 'case' on someone who has only been posting for 6 pages or so isn't the strongest case you've ever seen? God damn, who knew. I think there is more than enough substance to what I posted given how little you had contributed to that point and I only asked for a response.

It's not just talking theory - you actually chose that as the thing to enter the game with. You didn't make 2 or 3 posts addressing game content or generating reads or whatever, you came straight in with theory. A common icebreaker for scum to insert themselves into a game.

The trend is building wagons and seeing what happens. It's a good thing for town; not all wagons lead to lynches but the vast majority of them do provide information regardless. Can you imagine how bad a scum team would have to be to 'lol hammer' a wagon in a Newbie game? You'd basically be sacrificing yourself, come on. Try harder.

You threw shade at me and said you disliked my vote. I joined the wagon that you were on and yet you stayed on it? Regardless of what you think about the person I was voting, it should have made you rethink your own vote no? Additionally, given your clear apprehension about wagons building, you would think this would enter your thought process, too.

Then you threw a random comment about how OMGUSy I was being. Yet, you STILL didn't vote me and you STILL stayed on the wagon I was on. Do you often vote with your scum reads? You lined yourself up to join my wagon, should it take off, without committing yourself to it. That's scummy.

[whiskey delta]

Vasex

: meming but active, helped create content. Also townread me rapidly, so definitely town.

Are you joking about "Also townread me rapidly, so definitely town."?

yeah that sounds suspicious from cheap...

I can’t tell if this is just a continuation of the joke or if Vasex is serious with the FOS here

guys, dont make 5 votes on anybody too early please

we don't need to end the day so fast

Posts like this also tend to make me frown. Why state the obvious? I don’t believe there’s a world that exists where players are getting hammered for nothing. Never seen it happen. Don’t understand why it’s being pushed as Mafia gospel.

Rad

Are you trying to get Vasex to put Rad to

E-1

so your scumbuddy can quickhammer him on accident?

Also your reasoning on scumreading him for your vote is very watery in 168

Again, this sort of accusation makes me want to SR this slot. In what universe does it make sense for scum to do this? Since you like theory, let me ask How do you think scum would play a situation like this? The game goes beyond D1 and this entire theory is based on the notion the scum, working openly together, end Day early to flip a Townie. And then what? Rely on wifom as a pissed off Town turns on them?

do you know that voting smb only because he scumreads you and also adding the vote to a bigger wagon - this is scummy thing?

It's very OMGUS isn't it.

Is OMGUS a scumtell?

[Bellaphant]

Would easily be able to say that Cheapside has provided much more content in their 6 posts than you have in 55 actually...

I looked through Spartan's posts again.

He's new to the game so hasn't had a chance to play much (7 posts). The guy he replaced made no posts.

He's already given some significant stances (voted me, pressuring BlueBloodedToffee, pressuring Vasex, town read on Somnus)

He's given town more material in 7 posts than Bella has in 23.
Snip

@Cheap - what do you think of Bella and my read on him? What do you think about changing your vote from Spartan to Bella?

[Bellaphant]

"cheapside has provided...." "He's given..."

They aren't direct quotes of each other but I rarely see that accusation anywhere, let alone in the same basic words in less than 100 posts from two different slots. The fact that I have varying degrees of scum reads on both if you just makes it extra weird.