Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[MathBlade]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

Don’t get me wrong, Implosion gives me scum pings

But you’ve already been told off by me and implosion

So *shrug*

Who do you scumread besides HEM?

[Aristeia]

what are you even arguing with me for

do you want to kill enchant today?

[Aristeia]

and no Implosion didn't say my mech logic is wrong.

If he thinks I'm wrong and you're right he can say it himself in this thread and explain why.

[Aristeia]

Who do you scumread besides HEM?

you

[Aristeia]

Enchant << no day reads, if scum it’s with Ari. This postulating doesn’t feel right

like this feels like you want to chain enchant!scum flip to somehow misflipping me because I have the right mech approach to solving his slot which is kind of ???

[Aristeia]

like i dunno why else you would spend this much time arguing with me over mech because you don't sound like you particularly want to flip enchant today

[Aristeia]

literally the only times you spend lots of thread time fighting with me over mech in a way that makes no sense to me is when you're scum and making shit up.

for example:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351

and

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284

[MathBlade]

I don’t want to flip enchant today.

I also think you’re full of shit

Both things are true.

And yes I made up shit in those games but that’s because I had to.

Here it’s just painfully obvious you’re starting on faulty premises.

[MathBlade]

what are you even arguing with me for

do you want to kill enchant today?

I am arguing with you for wifom reasons (assuming Enchant is town)

1) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop bad for us
2) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is not the town cop and scum shoot there good for us
3) If I am right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop hood for us as we get a check
4) If I am right and scum agrees and Enchant is not the cop then we buy time for him to do what he does

Funneling the scum kill to Enchant when he could be a top tier PR is bad

If Enchant is scum this is all fundamentally a waste of time

So for the sake of town you’re wrong

[Aristeia]

1) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop bad for us

if enchant is town cop he is getting shot today period

[MathBlade]

1) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop bad for us

if enchant is town cop he is getting shot today period

And I disagree

You said this is fruitless unless I convinced someone else

Why are you poking this repeatedly?

[Aristeia]

you think scum me is trying to get my scum team to shoot enchant!town cop by

talking about it in the thread

and therefore I'm bad?

like what even is your reasoning here?

[Aristeia]

1) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop bad for us

if enchant is town cop he is getting shot today period

And I disagree

You said this is fruitless unless I convinced someone else

Why are you poking this repeatedly?

you said I'm full of shit and I'm easily triggered by people who know less than me talking shit to me online

[implosion]

I don't think Enchant-Town should auto-pick ascetic cop 100% of the time... because if town was supposed to do that they'd essentially be denying the existence of ascetic cop because scum would just shoot the ascetic cop in 100% of games. The "optimal" play for town is some kind of mixed strategy where they pick it sometimes.

I think this is all wholly irrelevant because frankly treating Enchant like a player who is going to play with a focus on optimizing the probability that they will win... is inane. They autoquickhammer anyone at E-1. That's not the kind of player who's going to auto-pick ascetic cop as scum to deny it. It's also not the kind of player who's going to always pick ascetic cop as town because they think it's the Correct Play. I agree in broad strokes with what Aristeia is saying but they do have an assumption (which to her credit, she is explicit about):

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

which is, frankly, simply incorrect because Enchant isn't that kind of player.

I'm not strongly interested in continuing discussion along these lines; I'd rather hear from Math why he thinks I'm pinging as scum.

[Aristeia]

Funneling the scum kill to Enchant when he could be a top tier PR is bad

If I am scum

You think I'm funneling the scum to kill Enchant

by talking about it in the thread

that's your thought process????

[implosion]

(and if there's a reason he's not voting me when I'm literally the only player on the player list who he is calling scum right now)

[MathBlade]

you think scum me is trying to get my scum team to shoot enchant!town cop by

talking about it in the thread

and therefore I'm bad?

like what even is your reasoning here?

I am saying in the case you’re scum Enchant is town then it’s spam to avoid reads as you’ve made up your mind you’re shooting there.
In the case you’re scum and Enchant is scum you’re setting up a gambit.
In the case you’re town and Enchant is scum then you accomplish nothing with this mechanics shenanigans as Enchant doesn’t have a single vote on them
In the case you’re town and Enchant is town then this is just begging scum to shoot Enchant

Nothing good comes from this

[Aristeia]

I think this is all wholly irrelevant because frankly treating Enchant like a player who is going to play with a focus on optimizing the probability that they will win... is inane. They autoquickhammer anyone at E-1. That's not the kind of player who's going to auto-pick ascetic cop as scum to deny it. It's also not the kind of player who's going to always pick ascetic cop as town because they think it's the Correct Play. I agree in broad strokes with what Aristeia is saying but they do have an assumption (which to her credit, she is explicit about):

yes but if Enchant is

town

then scum can't KNOW if he's an ascetic cop or not, he's probly ascetic cop more often than not and therefore they would shoot there as a first resort to stop him from getting results.

If an ascetic cop flips somewhere else, then obviously these rules no longer apply to him.

[Aristeia]

you think scum me is trying to get my scum team to shoot enchant!town cop by

talking about it in the thread

and therefore I'm bad?

like what even is your reasoning here?

I am saying in the case you’re scum Enchant is town then it’s spam to avoid reads as you’ve made up your mind you’re shooting there.
In the case you’re scum and Enchant is scum you’re setting up a gambit.
In the case you’re town and Enchant is scum then you accomplish nothing with this mechanics shenanigans as Enchant doesn’t have a single vote on them
In the case you’re town and Enchant is town then this is just begging scum to shoot Enchant

Nothing good comes from this

if i'm scum and enchant is town i've decided to defend enchant from people who want to lim him by spamming the thread

ok cool theory mathblade

[implosion]

I think this is all wholly irrelevant because frankly treating Enchant like a player who is going to play with a focus on optimizing the probability that they will win... is inane. They autoquickhammer anyone at E-1. That's not the kind of player who's going to auto-pick ascetic cop as scum to deny it. It's also not the kind of player who's going to always pick ascetic cop as town because they think it's the Correct Play. I agree in broad strokes with what Aristeia is saying but they do have an assumption (which to her credit, she is explicit about):

yes but if Enchant is

town

then scum can't KNOW if he's an ascetic cop or not, he's probly ascetic cop more often than not and therefore they would shoot there as a first resort to stop him from getting results.

If an ascetic cop flips somewhere else, then obviously these rules no longer apply to him.

I think the most likely scenario is that Enchant is scum and we'll lim them d3.

I think the second most likely scenario is that Enchant is town and that scum will kill players who are actually playing the game and let us mislim them on d3.

[MathBlade]

I don't think Enchant-Town should auto-pick ascetic cop 100% of the time... because if town was supposed to do that they'd essentially be denying the existence of ascetic cop because scum would just shoot the ascetic cop in 100% of games. The "optimal" play for town is some kind of mixed strategy where they pick it sometimes.

I think this is all wholly irrelevant because frankly treating Enchant like a player who is going to play with a focus on optimizing the probability that they will win... is inane. They autoquickhammer anyone at E-1. That's not the kind of player who's going to auto-pick ascetic cop as scum to deny it. It's also not the kind of player who's going to always pick ascetic cop as town because they think it's the Correct Play. I agree in broad strokes with what Aristeia is saying but they do have an assumption (which to her credit, she is explicit about):

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

which is, frankly, simply incorrect because Enchant isn't that kind of player.

I'm not strongly interested in continuing discussion along these lines; I'd rather hear from Math why he thinks I'm pinging as scum.

Look here’s Implosion correcting you again.

Like ???

Let me guess this isn’t a “correction”.

[Aristeia]

like what even is your goal here?

do you think I'm scum?

do you think I'm bad!town?

are you trying to win an argument that has no purpose ?

[implosion]

actually y'know maybe i don't actually care why math thinks i'm pinging as scum x_x it's probably going to be something that just doesn't even mesh with how i play the game

[implosion]

Look here’s Implosion correcting you again.

Like ???

Let me guess this isn’t a “correction”.

this is me saying I agree with her in broad strokes and disagree on a detail.

[MathBlade]

In short you’re the only player making sense and the only one besides me considering HEM town

Towns tend to tunnel on D1 and you waffling and such gives me pause.

It’s like you aren’t really deciding on much.