Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Crescent]

I called Gera fluffy for the exact same kind of post last game that he made on day 2. Wall posts without reads are fluff.

The only thing I've actually said regarding your alignment is that you're more likely to be scum than Alex and Elsa. I've already said the person last game who reacted as badly as you did to pressure turned out to be town.

Again you fail to say why you find my vote on Elsa suspicious.

Wall posts without reads are fluff? Who made you the grand arbitor? And you saying your continued allusions to a game i ain't gonna read are not fluff? why not focus on this game? Meta this or that is not enough of an excuse to me for not being wholly in the game.

My immediate impression was that Elsa pressure was bad and a scum was taking part, so I looked into the votes first.

I think Elsa was being null and Alex voted her on a difference of play approach. Your vote was awkward at best. (I'm on the "post 120 is bad" side of the line, as it appears reachy to me), and given the vote came on it's own, and then only minutes later did you justify it, it comes off as potentially opportunistic in trying to push a train led by town.

Like, I don't think Elsa spent anywhere near as long on the topic to be scummy, especially given she wasn't even the only one doing it.

And yes, posting a long block of words with no game advancing content is something scum just

loves

to do to appear like busy town. It's a very common scum tactic to appear engaged when they're not.

And we have a player who was in said game, so if I was lying about any of it, I would think he'd bake me for it.

[Crescent]

@Vivax

That was a real-time update *meta-based* read (160), having ''mini 2190'' and ''mini 2196'' games as references.

The games are old but you can find them by searching geraint's profile or mine.

Can you point me to specific parts of those games to look for?

[Crescent]

(Because I'm getting similar enough vibes to how he was last game, even though his early behavior was different - But he shows a clear bias for why he placed such an early Scorpious vote there)

[Crescent]

...Because he.

[gibus]

Feeling that something is scummy/towny using guts is normal, but assigning a ''performative'' value to something you're not even sure is meaningful feels more like he's making things up.

Could you rephrase this for me?
How is it scummy to suggest a forced read is performative?

[Crescent]

Anyways Eiralox is probably just town who dislikes me because I don't play the same way they do. I'm sensing an actual grudge out of the overreaction and that kind of thing is legitimately hard to fake.

Clidd needs to go in more detail about Gera. I've no issue going into past games, but I'm not searching the entire thing.



Oh wait one thing:

Given I think George is on the "probably scum" side of things...

Gettin scum feels from George Bayleys series of posts as entrance.
Leaving it at that.

This coming so early reflects pretty damned well. Vivax hasn't posted a lot but I like most of what they have.

And my own reaction to Vivax here looks awful <3

[clidd]

@Crescent

The points I'm using are from memory, so pointing to specific parts I won't be able to.

You can compare Gera's ISO in both games and draw your conclusions from what he's shown here so far.

[clidd]

@Gibus

He mentioned at one point that a read was only meaningful to him when the player presented a set of ''bad'' signals, which struck me as strange when I saw the expressive *performative* impression he got from a single post. In this context, It's as if he were judging something as performative being aware that that action, for being isolated, was not significant. But that's not why I'm voting for him, even though it's another chip in the pile.

I hope this makes sense to you.

[Crescent]

Something I just remembered myself: Gera specifically said last game he didn't care about any read that didn't also come with a vote.

He immediately shaded Vivax for shading George, then called him performative. Vivax did not place any vote here.

[gibus]

How is it different from your own read?
Maybe vivax's "performance" is only a chip in a potential pile and not significant by itself?

[Eiralox]

My immediate impression was that Elsa pressure was bad and a scum was taking part, so I looked into the votes first.

I think Elsa was being null and Alex voted her on a difference of play approach. Your vote was awkward at best. (I'm on the "post 120 is bad" side of the line, as it appears reachy to me), and given the vote came on it's own, and then only minutes later did you justify it, it comes off as potentially opportunistic in trying to push a train led by town.

Like, I don't think Elsa spent anywhere near as long on the topic to be scummy, especially given she wasn't even the only one doing it.

And yes, posting a long block of words with no game advancing content is something scum just

loves

to do to appear like busy town. It's a very common scum tactic to appear engaged when they're not.

And we have a player who was in said game, so if I was lying about any of it, I would think he'd bake me for it.

---why was it bad? were you happy with agreeing on lynching inactives so early in the game?


----yes my vote was awkward, i woke up in the morning, read through entire thread, then made my second post as /vote, saw i screwed up, went to front page to check tags, posted correct vote as third post, then explained my reasoning: 100% based on feels, elsa feels scummy for their early inactive hunting(which atm i can see going both ways, i do not discount Town Elsa trying to drum up activity, but i'm not sure how i feel about it yet)


-----------I don't agree at all. You continue to deepen my suspicion by dying on this hill. No game advancing content? I made no hard reads, but stated everyone on list were scummish cos they're so hard to read. I'm slightly elevating Gera and George from that list. I gave input on what I think of folk and their actions thus far. So... i don't get you at all and at this point i'm thinking you're on the hunt.

------------Idk care if you lie, lie away. The fact is, most of us weren't in that game, so spending energy reading about it instead of this one.... uuughhhhhh. you not focusing wholly on hunting scum but instead retro-metaing on the sideline can only hurt town. way way more than my one post(which i don't see harming town.... at all.. in any way?).........

and whose to say you fluffing you pust up with other games isn't, as you say, "scum just

loves

to do to appear like busy town. It's a very common scum tactic to appear engaged when they're not."

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

[gibus]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

In his defense, GB didn't really seem like he was forcing a casual entrance to me. The accusation does come off as quite strange.

[clidd]

Gibus, I don't understand what's your point.

Are you trying to read my slot or the accuracy of my read?

[Crescent]

Holy hell Clidd your post count in MN 2196 is insane.

Early impressions of 2196 Gera: Much more aggressive than 2272 Gera on day 1. 2272 Gera barely did anything and barely attacked anyone. 2196 Gera has a similar number of posts but is on the hunt rather early. I don't see any parallels between that and him instantly defending George, but I do see *some* parallels in him being on the attack early - Though he did nothing for like, the first entire day of that game before jumping someone in just his second post. It was only a few posts later that he backpedaled and said it was "random". He was quicker to acknowledge it in 2272.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

In his defense, GB didn't really seem like he was forcing a casual entrance to me. The accusation does come off as quite strange.

I could see where the accusation was coming from. For some reason at the time I thought the same thing could be applied to me - Like it was trying too hard to be a "check in".

It's George's behavior

since

then that's gotten my notice. 4 posts, a quick vote, and a whole lotta nothing.

[Crescent]

I can pressure someone without voting for them. There's not exactly a lot of posts to go on so far, but from what I've seen you are obvscum.

I will not pay any attention to people's pressure unless it is backed up by a vote, it is just posturing otherwise. If it ain't jn a vote count I will totally forget it ever existed

This suggests he could find such a thing "performative", but he never once accuses anyone in the game of such a thing. Not even me, when I pressured a few on day 1 but voted none of them.

To immediately jump to George's defense is a more stark contrast to last game than I've been thinking it is.

In his defense, GB didn't really seem like he was forcing a casual entrance to me. The accusation does come off as quite strange.

I could see where the accusation was coming from. For some reason at the time I thought the same thing could be applied to me - Like it was trying too hard to be a "check in".

It's George's behavior

since

then that's gotten my notice. 4 posts, a quick vote, and a whole lotta nothing.

[gibus]

Gibus, I don't understand what's your point.

Are you trying to read my slot or the accuracy of my read?

Well, I can't join you in your pursuit if I'm not convinced.
It would be nice if your responses turn out ai tho.

[Crescent]

Let's see... 2190 Gera was town.


Good lord he's doing even less than he did in 2272. He doesn't have a content post in that game until 582 when he defends DkKoba.

[Crescent]

Gibus, I don't understand what's your point.

Are you trying to read my slot or the accuracy of my read?

Well, I can't join you in your pursuit if I'm not convinced.
It would be nice if your responses turn out ai tho.

Somewhat. There are more similarities to him immediately squaring off on Vivax to the scum game pointed out than either of the town games being pointed out. Though

I would not say it's game-breaking information, but it does suggest his behavior is more likely to be in his scum range. I will say he was quicker to attack here than in 2196. It's specifically post 40 - actually making a quick follow up post, that most feels out of character with 2190 and 2272 where he was town.

While I dislike Clidd not actually bringing those games up beforehand, they do make sense as reference points.

[Eiralox]

Getting some serious countershadey vibes from Eiralox here. I point out it's the worse of the

two

votes on Elsa, and call out the wall as fluff pretending to be substance, only for them to immediately jump to the defense of said wall post and say I'm being defensive, which I haven't been at all.

When do you intend to enact this plan of finding scum?

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Elsa Jay

What is your view on the idea of eliminating a lurky player D1?

dumb

And can I interest you in another wagon? There's a new and small one on Elsa but I'm a dog person -

man say no more
VOTE: Elsa

Oj this isn't logical scumread but 100% based on feels, i felt this ways reading through thread before Alexcellent's vote and post, the thing that made me sus was https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13392320

sure three scum can be lurkers as many saying happened in sum previous game but Elsa has been going too hard for it here imo while not ferreting out secrets with those they did interact with, basically complaining about staleness while enforcing it by harping on about inactives.

subject to change, elsa just makes my brain itch atm

uuuuhhhh okaay you and Gibus wouldn't be scum buddies by chance?

[Crescent]

Oh wow that's a good argument. I've been overlooking Gibus ever since I metaed him being town for voting me and just never even registered his vote on Elsa as serious. I didn't scrutinize it at all.

I've had some bad misses this game I did not have last game. Yikes.

That's worse than anything I ever did all game in 2272. Like, it's glaringly obviously worse.

[Eiralox]

hmmm ok i'm going to drink a beer and further degenerate my brain with late night video games. have fun.

[clidd]

MN 2196 was a super stressful game.

It took me centuries to eliminate my main scumread (which was scum) and we got close to lose because of apathetic slots and TvTs.

[Vivax]

While the meta-centric explanation from clidd regarding his decision to put geraintm into the scum pile leaves a sour aftertaste, I'll bite. Certainly would have helped to point that out immediately for its credibility. Noting that I didn't go and look up if the meta wasn't even valid. It's not an approach I use on players I don't know well.

What also helped me bite was that I saw another bit from George that wasn't very appealing:

A better way to have worded my post would have been "I am uncomfortable with the amount of people sitting on their votes and doing nothing, and find it to be suspicious". But also that just might be me being pigheaded about people not playing the way I expect.

Honestly at that point (I know I'm a little late on this)

I feel like the people who were voting are scum. I think scum would try and force themselves to get a read going.

because no one can get a good read on anyone day 1, and certainly not by post 40. shouting to the world you find someone scummy so early on just feels like getting something out there so you can show people later you had a read on them

I feel like we go through this everytime. (I was Vanya last game).

You can absolutely have good reads on Day 1. Datisi and I had NPOM (MonkeyMan) pinned as scum in a mini normal once because he was acting pretty strange. And even if your reads are wrong, pushing people and seeing how people react to being called scum is invaluable for future days.

Although the post did seem kinda weird to call me scummy for meming during RVS. I feel like RVS is the only time you can meme as a player and it doesn't affect the game.

Kind of liking Eiralox as town for this reason. Feels like a slight townslip if that's a thing.

I'd believe this if the account wasn't from 2016, but this feels like such an easy townslip to manufacture.

For one George is posthum justifying his vote on Alex, and additionally when he does that, he's talking about multiple people. There's been a bit of back and forth on whether to policy VOTE (almost used the l-word hnnnng) today or not, and Alex wasn't the only one supporting it. Moreover I'm sure anyone could be able to get a better read on Alex than just judging him for wanting to sus non-voters.
This post feels fluffy, lacks followup (who are 'the people who were voting' besides alex?). At worst it's a mafia post, at best George is being lazy.

Still keeping my vote on Corwin for now while appreciating that his posting volume is improving, the guilty entrance is not something I'll forget easily though.

Gibus and not_maf are my blind spots. Maybe mafia, maybe not. Some people's metas are just permanently low-info like that, makes it easier for them. I'd be open to a policy vote as well if I don't see improvement.