Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[Corwinoid]

Actions speak louder than feelings.

[Corwinoid]

Wanna eliminate Somnus with me?

Yes. I already said him or Cheap.

VOTE: Somnus

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actions speak louder than feelings.

I don't know what this means.

[Corwinoid]

Day 1 reads are based on feelings and intuition. Day 2 reads are based on what happened.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, how does any of that effect your read on me though?

[Corwinoid]

It's less scummy than Somnus and Cheap.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But still scummy enough for you to fall back on if you're 'wrong'?

You're also willing to join your less scummy read on a wagon for today?

[Corwinoid]

I need to try and get some sleep, I only meant to check in for a minute since I got up to smoke, but I have RL stuff to do this morning so I'll be out for a few hours (hopefully).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I could elim Corwin today.

How you feel about that, Somnus?

[Cheapside]

I'm not worried about people scumreading me over it, but just in case people thought my last post was some kind of appeal to emotion, I'd like to note that it was entirely within my scum range. In fact, I'd feel roughly the same way as scum about two players making up over half the thread, one of whom doesn't actually bother to read my posts, thows around childish insults, and is disrespectful enough not only to ask that special concessions be made for their friend, but to complain when someone is generous to replace in for the slot. It'd destroy my ability to play as scum as much as my ability to play town, and it'd still be extremely rude.


Compiled some reads over the night. Obviously the Spartan one is no longer relevant.

Spoiler: reads

Somnus: Initial stuff about Vasex's joke is still bizarre and frankly worrying. A lot of very defensive/aggrieved posts like 70 or 709. A lot of stuff you usually wouldn't see a three-time mafia player doing, but you might see in completely fresh town. Unless this is a very clever way to spice up scum play at the risk of a fair bit of dignity, the tone feels quite genuine. Town.

Rad: Decent start; some of the fluff might have been trying to draw people into the game and create content other than the "russian hackers" joke. The push on BBT in 155 looks a bit weird as Rad was completely ok with Vasex messing around with their first few posts, but the unvote seems reasonable enough. Has attacked the stronger, more coherent players like BBT and Bella. 439 is the kind of trouble starting scum wouldn't be likely to do - the "find" was obvious garbage with a lukewarm response even from Somnus, so no threat to scum!BBT and a useful distraction if BBT is town. Rad does generally seem quite concerned about what people think about them, but despite that, Lean Town.

Whisky Delta: mostly decent scumhunting, quite confrontational. Looks like a strong, easily overlooked player. Town lean.

Corwin: didn't have time to really read the thread, and that's fair enough. Came out focusing on a pretty obvious joke by Vasex... I really don't know what to say here. The fact that three different people here read a sentence like "my lawyer advises me not to answer that" and did not assume the whole thing was a shitpost is honestly baffling to me. I have an irrational town-lean Corwin for noting that Vasex's posting style basically destroys the thread, but that's just another sign of how endless spam screws my play over, really. Null.

BBT: highly prolific poster, came in with a stated intention of getting a wagon going and *mostly* stuck to it. Good early play creating pressure with stacked votes. Some stuff with bad vibes like 242, in which he looks like he hasn't read or understood 32 in which the joke becomes very clear. Given BBT had a jokey start himself, and seems to be able to understand what other people are saying, it looks like he's posting rather than reading the thread. Also 689 didn't make any sense to me, I'd like to see it explained. He did finally hammer when I pretty much forced him to. With 150 posts, he's almost as prolific as Vasex, even if BBT's stuff is less low-effort and stupid. The two of them make up... OVER HALF THE THREAD together. If everyone posted like that, we'd have a 2000 post D1, eighty pages of thread. BBT really wants to control the flow of the game, I guess. Would be convenient if he was nightkilled as that would let us rule out the very dangerous possibility of a highly prolific and convincing poster being scum. I guess I'd be able to read more into the slight dubiousnesses if this entire day wasn't an unfunny joke. Null.

Spartan: Fluffy and placatory/townhunting start. Aggressive response to the wagon on him, keeps posting after it dies down but with less commitment/interest, main focus is on BBT, mostly not scumhunting other players. Lot of theorising about teams i.e. who could be with who, which isn't good for in a nine-player-game D1. Doesn't seem to want to find scum unless the pressure's on them, which isn't great for an SE. Lean scum.

Bella: strong player, fairly sensible on the Vasex/Somnus interaction, maybe a bit passive D1. A lot of reads based on "vibes" or similar, voting mq isn't how I'd pressure a slot to post but I can see why someone might do it. Also some posts with somewhat trifling ideas: 720, for example, is a very weak attack for an experienced player. Scum lean.

Not a huge amount of note since D1... Somewhat unnerved by the fact the mafia chose Spartan over BBT. Nightkill analysis is a dubious business, but Town!BBT would be very dangerous for mafia. And vice versa.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cheap, those reads are not consistent with your earlier play.

You said Somnus was a top scum read for you early in the game and moved off of it just because he stopped pushing the game out of RVS? Despite worrying posts, he is now your top town read. I don't follow?

Also, you say Rad had a decent start to the game. Yet, at the start of the game, you voted Rad. What gives? I can't follow the progress on your reads.

The post regarding wagons was in relation to potential running up PRs (which didn't matter in the end as we ran up a PR and he didn't even claim). I didn't want brand new wagons forming incase we ended up outing a PR and felt like we needed to elim from the days wagons that had already reached L-1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, please note Somnus' failure to explain pretty much anything which you haven't referenced at all in your read of him.

[Bellaphant]

Cheap, a lot of those conclusions seemed detached from the rest of the read as well: you spend a huge amount of words to call bbt null, a fairly big amount to call corn null when it's fairly negative, and basically neutral about me to come out with what looks like your biggest scum read.

Your read on me is even more divorced from your play when I was one of the four eligible slots you didn't vote for oe pressure yesterday.

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

Possible VLA, sick

[Cheapside]

I was voting Somnus early on, sure, because he was weirdly serious about Vasex's joke and that seemed like a good way to start the game. At this point, three different people at least have shown that same trait (Somnus, Corwin and BBT), so even if it was a hardcore scumtell for me, it wouldn't be enough because

there aren't three scum

. My current read of him is based on going through the twenty pages since then. Sure, there's stuff that's less than well justified, but he hasn't played a full game as town, so town!Somnus isn't expected to be perfect. The tone reads very much unhappy town.

My early vote on Rad was partly to create pressure - I don't believe it's possible to reliably find scum early D1, so reads then are implicitly weak. His initial posting wasn't awful, but there was a lot of fluff. The response to pressure was calm and reasonable, and I can see why he might have been asking weaker questions in order to draw people into the game. So yeah, his first ten pages were decent.

Cheap, a lot of those conclusions seemed detached from the rest of the read as well: you spend a huge amount of words to call bbt null, a fairly big amount to call corn null when it's fairly negative, and basically neutral about me to come out with what looks like your biggest scum read.

Your read on me is even more divorced from your play when I was one of the four eligible slots you didn't vote for oe pressure yesterday.

I'm leaning scum on you because you've been passive and posted weak ideas, when your play and the fact that you're an SE scream "strong player". I wasn't going to try and pressure you by throwing a vote on you: my vote becomes meaningless as a scumhunting tool if I vote everyone, and D1 pressure was unlikely to work anyway, you come across as methodical and collected. You even have a high standard for content, as you demonstrate by trying to defuse the early Somnus/Vasex thing.

Which is why it's very weird when you post stuff like 323, in which you spend a while fixed on the observation that... two people used similar phrases?

If you thinking I'm writing

too much

... I really don't know what to tell you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No-one is saying Somnus should be playing perfect. I'm merely saying that Town!Somnus should at the very least be able to explain his scum reads. He couldn't explain the Rad read and when pushed on it, he switched to me, again with no explanation.

Explaining fabricated reads is difficult for scum.

On the note of you writing too much, I think it's clear what Bella meant? It's not the amount of posts you're making, it was the amount of words you were using to come out with null reads or just generally not saying a whole lot.

If Bella isn't getting eliminated today, who would you vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cheap, I'm really trying to see the progression on your Somnus read and I just can't.

The last thing you said about him was that his early play was dubious and weird (391) . I don't see anything else and then you come in Today with him as your biggest town read because unhappy Town?

Help me.

[Cheapside]

A lot has happened since that post. I still think his early play was dubious and weird, but as I've repeatedly stated - first time town might look like that. And I can't sr him for it reasonably, because corwin and you both failed to realised the Vasex thing was a joke, apparently, and I can't reasonably rely on something

three

players exhibited to find scum.

Regarding the justifications thing:
Somnus initially notes Rad's posting style resembled something he did to look towny in a game as mafia, then puts rad as scum in his tentative reads. His subsequent vote on Rad was literally explained. "dat Timing tho" or something similar, after Rad attacks the "BBT intended to post this in scumchat" idea Vasex floats, suggesting he thought you and Rad were scum together. And then... he felt insulted. And after a bit switched onto you. Scum usually think of a reason before posting reads, I don't think you've found anything incredible here. I mean, none of the reasons are strong, but Somnus gives reasons. If I had an sr on him, it'd be on the weak justifications he gives, not his failure to offer any.

Just... stop posting for a minute, and carefully read the thread. Don't make me chase this stuff for you. It's all in the ISO.

And yeah, I got Bella's point, it's just, again, an uninteresting and weak observation from a player that looks like they could do better.

I'd be interested in eliminating you, BBT. You're exerting a lot of influence on the game with constant posting, the nightkill was someone with a strong focus on you, and I'm not particularly impressed by your pushing me towards Somnus. I'd also like to know why you'd be happy to elim Corwin today?

[Bellaphant]

You seem to have missed my point, cheap: none of your focus was on me yesterday. Reads don't just flip overnight, unless there was a surprising elim (there wasn't) or a surprising nk - this nk was a tad surprising but actually the slot was super town by the end of the day.

So your read doesn't feel genuine. Even when pushed, you aren't pointing to Scummy stuff I've done (the repeated phrase was weird, I haven't seen it beforeb - and it enables me to have a decent conversation about it with rad, which is also a lot of what my posting is , starting conversation. ) Bbt will tell you that I've said I sort people better directly in a 1 on 1 response than I do in the whole thread: it's why I often ask for questions, something else you haven't really done to me.

Here's a question: what would I be doing 'better' as scum? Pushing more people? Making better cases??

The point about your words is interesting, because again, it looks fabricated. The thing about non fabricated stuff is that it flows. Writing a lot fo words to justify basically nothing doesn't really make sense, which matches the rest of my issue with your day one and early day two.

[Bellaphant]

If I was going to write a reads list, the player I'd talk most about is bbt, and hilariously I'd still come out with '???'

But this makes sense for me, from my read yesterday but also our history together. I know he's good at scum, I'm surprised he's not pushing me as much as he normally does, I'm a bit worried he's asking for my opinion/reaching out to me so frequently in a pockety way. Him not being the nk doesn't mean anything, as this was not a widely town read slot.

[Bellaphant]

Corwind's read on sonmus flipped overnight but it does look like it's in reaction to the elim (rad said what scum would do), although they are suddenly worried about sonmus' bbt tunnel

@cor, when did the tunnel start to worry you? 731 was pretty late in the day and he was your biggest tr. Can you talk me through this a bit?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Regarding Somnus' scum read, same question to you Cheap - why is a particular style of posting scummy (hint, it's not). Secondly, his 'dat timing though' is again off the basis of Scum!Rad defending Scum!BBT which as I am sure you understand, I have a problem understanding.

Find something in Somnus' read that isn't Rad is scum because BBT is scum and vice versa.

If he has given reasons, find reasons for his scum read on me. You're basically saying Somnus had a dubious start, has scum reads with weak reasoning and he's your top town read. This read is super forced, you're clutching at straws to town read Somnus and I'm not sure what it means.

Bella's observation isn't uninteresting and weak if you consider scum like to make busy looking posts and the more words you use the busier you look. I believe I referenced your posting style early in the game, too.

You can't eliminate me, I'm towns only hope in this game. Influence = scummy? The nightkill looks bad for me, sure. It wouldn't have been my choice if I were scum, but sure, I understand the perspective.

You're not impressed with me pushing you towards Somnus because you're not paying attention to what I'm saying. Or because you're desperate not to eliminate Somnus. If it's the latter, given the reasoning for your town read, I find this incredibly hard to understand.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm surprised he's not pushing me as much as he normally does, I'm a bit worried he's asking for my opinion/reaching out to me so frequently in a pockety way. Him not being the nk doesn't mean anything, as this was not a widely town read slot.

I don' t think this is fair, Bella! I tried to interact with you a fair bit on entry into the game. I pushed you on a couple of things and when I tried to push you on the RVS shutdown early game you shouted at me!

In addition to that, you're seeing a lot of the same things I am seeing in the game and I'm happy you're looking at the game from the same perspective as I am.

[Somnus]

VOTE: Somnus

We can do this today.

Of course. Had to get Vasxex and Spartan out of the way first. I knew what you were doing the last time I interacted with you, and I called it. I got bored listening to bullshit, had things to do, and called the pivot which promptly took place almost immediately. You still had to leave that doubt about the Somnus slot open for Day 2 though. You didn't have the votes with Vassex or Spartan still alive. Pretty basic stuff for any townie with a pulse to understand at this point.

Go back and look at Vassex and Spartan's strongest town read, folks. Go back and look at who they were scum-reading. Go back and look at the fact that BlueBlooded went from trying to eliminate Spartan after 7 posts and a few hours after replacing in to pretending to town-read him.

As much as most of you may despise the guy, go back and read all of Vassex's posts both pre and post-hammer. He was right about nearly everything he said. Sometimes the truth hurts.

scums: cheap, corwin, bbt, rad

yeah, it feels quite solid. add here bella and i can say that there are 2 scums in this list. everybody else are town.
because scum!cheap wouldn't vote me before his partner, this is too huge risk for him to vote his 100% towniee, too suspicious
so logics says : his partner was already voting me

What are the odds Scum!Cheapside asked his scum partner Scum!BBT to remove his vote so that he can join the wagon less suspiciously than if he had hammered out of nowhere. Making it look better with BBT who is aleady on the wagon hammering?

so my final list for monday (in priority from the most scum and from the most town)

scums: CHEAPSIDE, bbt, corwin, rad, bella
towns: SOMNUS, spartan, wd

[Somnus]

Cheap's vote on Vasex wasn't great and it almost looked like a policy elim. The same could be said for Corwin's vote, too.

How great is it going to be if this is BlueBlood openly protecting his partner and then throwing in a random townie to protect as well to try and make it look not suspicious?