Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Harley Quinn]

Oh you finally did my bad you’re still being bad

You spelled correct wrong.

[MathBlade]

The game has been stagnant not because of VLA but because scum don’t want to flip town. People get elimmed all the time on VLA it’s why Ari moved her vote off.

Instead you decided to try to come after me because I am the bigger prize

Well scum got caught and HEM is town

[Harley Quinn]

Those who genuinely think HEM is scum would want to stay on HEM scum. They wouldn’t destroy one wagon to move to a maybe wagon where some people townread me.

Ergo HEM is town and I am town

Restart RVS if you have to.

Or you’re both scum

Also already addressed in why don’t you want to vote HEM?

You’d “prove” me scum (logically impossible) as I am town

No.

Yep

You scumread HEM yet won’t vote him

You don’t want the egg on your face when HEM flips town

There won’t be egg when you flip scum. You want me to vote HEM now? Because you think you can somehow mist people into tr you. I’m not wrong.

[Harley Quinn]

The game has been stagnant not because of VLA but because scum don’t want to flip town. People get elimmed all the time on VLA it’s why Ari moved her vote off.

Instead you decided to try to come after me because I am the bigger prize

Well scum got caught and HEM is town

That’s right Math I caught you and you’re unsuccessfully trying to squirm out of it.

[Enchant]

I meant day

[MathBlade]

I think this is my first miselim I might actually enjoy.

Let’s see where this goes.

[MathBlade]

well look at it from his POV if he's actually scum and defending scum!HEM from me.

what does he actually get from saying that I should have a 100% readrate on him?


(1) It's fairly unlikely he can yeet me in this game state, he lacks charisma and thread control and he acknowledges it.

So if I run over HEM and HEM flips scum, I'll just come for him tommorrow and kill him.

(2) If he somehow gets everyone to vote me out today where does that leave him/hem tomm? I'm flipped town, and he's on the record saying that Town!Me should have a 100% readrate on him - so he/hem probly get killed d2/d3.

It's just not really a line of play that gets him anywhere.

Now you should see it too. Good luck after my flip.

[MathBlade]

I meant day

Fastest way to do that is vote HEM or me or explain why you think we’re both town

[Harley Quinn]

That makes me think I touched on a nerve asking StD a simple question of why and his vote is an absolute overreactio

Call this OMGUS if you want but

VOTE: Std

Let’s go!!!

If I could gladiate mathblade right now I would

As the red wave of doom tries to envelop me in darkness I jump up into my starship and press shields to maximum power as I launch myself towards a giant red planet with a pi symbol on it pew pew pew

Actually nope

Std is town

I am an idiot

VOTE: Unvote

No I will not say what changed my mind

[Harley Quinn]

I think this is my first miselim I might actually enjoy.

Let’s see where this goes.

You’re not fooling me.

[Bellaphant]

Math, could you give me like four bullet points/sentences of why I should vote dweelee over hem? Idc about Titus today.

[MathBlade]

Dwlee’s entire ISO is devoid of any hunting/content except me/HEM scum. There’s no hunting

You’re the first to talk about my read on Dwlee in a long while.

Dwlee is usually way more active as town than scum.

The fact no one else is noticing this makes them scum

[MathBlade]

Last post @Ausuka

@dwlee

why do you feel disengaged this game?

I wouldn't say I feel

particularly

disengaged rn

They’re not “disengaged”

They’re just not here

They’re happy for the TvT

[Dwlee99]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

[Harley Quinn]

Why do you scum read Gamma?

Because I don’t tr him yet

It’s hard to explain a negative

Not tr him YET=putting him in your PoE?

For Gamma yes

I usually can TR Gamma early

The fact I can’t is suspicious

There’s nothing inherently scummy but Gamma isn’t town pinging

Why not null? Maybe we just sort people differently, but if nothing stands out as AI then a null read would make more sense imo.

If I didn’t know Gamma I’d go with null

But Gamma’s always been an easier read

Last post @Ausuka

@dwlee

why do you feel disengaged this game?

I wouldn't say I feel

particularly

disengaged rn

They’re not “disengaged”

They’re just not here

They’re happy for the TvT

[Harley Quinn]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

Right after I catch scum!him, it suddenly lit a fire undemeath him to save HEM.

Oh and Gamma’s scum because he couldn’t find town!him early enough but despite all that you’re apparently here for the T/T.

He seems to be suffering from selective amnesia on his Gamma read.

[implosion]

MathBlade... I know that you know that you're

egregiously

misusing the word "prove" most likely to give your argument more bravado than it deserves. You know what mathematical proof involves, and it's a rigorous process that leaves no room for error. There is no such thing in a mafia game outside of purely mechanical setup analysis.

I really have trouble taking any points you're saying seriously when you are dressing them in this sort of veneer of perfection, like nothing you've said in a mafia game has ever been wrong and nothing you say ever will be wrong.

Telling people who say "I'm more confident that you're scum than this other person" that that's a "shitty excuse" to vote... you rather than that other person... is like, very simply absurd. That's literally how the game of mafia works. It's not like we have ten minutes until deadline and these players need to vote HEM or no liim will happen. It's not like half this town is 100% townreading you with no chance of changing. It feels like you're trying to rhetorically stifle other people's ability to even play the game.

[implosion]

I do have a bit of a pet scumread in implosion. Particularly the insistence on being enthusiastic about the HEM wagon after being called out for exploring other options/being non-committal feels like more of a response to that than true progression of the read.

I won't lie, there might be a degree to which my annoyance at Titus made me subconsciously want to double down on the read to spite her.

Ultimately my progression on hem is more due to me rethinking how I thought about their later content, though also partially due to the actual little bits of content they more recently posted. And I only realized the thing about the absence of any read whatsoever on anyone other than Aristeia and MathBlade relatively recently.

[Harley Quinn]

He was sr Gamma right before I hardpushed him but suddenly Dwlee’s here “for the TYT” between him and Gamma.

He just keeps flipping his reads without rhyme or reason on a dime, except for HEM and Dwlee.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade... I know that you know that you're

egregiously

misusing the word "prove" most likely to give your argument more bravado than it deserves. You know what mathematical proof involves, and it's a rigorous process that leaves no room for error. There is no such thing in a mafia game outside of purely mechanical setup analysis.

I really have trouble taking any points you're saying seriously when you are dressing them in this sort of veneer of perfection, like nothing you've said in a mafia game has ever been wrong and nothing you say ever will be wrong.

Telling people who say "I'm more confident that you're scum than this other person" that that's a "shitty excuse" to vote... you rather than that other person... is like, very simply absurd. That's literally how the game of mafia works. It's not like we have ten minutes until deadline and these players need to vote HEM or no liim will happen. It's not like half this town is 100% townreading you with no chance of changing. It feels like you're trying to rhetorically stifle other people's ability to even play the game.

I am not though

I am forcing them to put their proof where their beliefs say the are

I am not allowed to convince you HEM is town

I am not allowed to talk about the reads I have.

So the only thing I can do that is force people to prove they scumread HEM

Which they dont

[MathBlade]

He was sr Gamma right before I hardpushed him but suddenly Dwlee’s here “for the TYT” between him and Gamma.

He just keeps flipping his reads without rhyme or reason on a dime, except for HEM and Dwlee.

It’s day 1?

What do you expect me to have it entirely solved?

[implosion]

I am forcing them to put their proof where their beliefs say the are

I am not allowed to convince you HEM is town

I am not allowed to talk about the reads I have.

So the only thing I can do that is force people to prove they scumread HEM

Stop using the word "prove". People can't prove anything. People say they scumread HEM? They don't need to vote HEM to prove that. Either they're town and they scumread HEM but have some reason to vote someone else (which, gasp, can exist in the complex game of mafia) or they're scum and lying. But them voting HEM wouldn't prove anything, and them not voting HEM doesn't disprove anything. It isn't a logical inconsistency. Sure, it's a form of evidence, but I view it as a form of intellectual dishonesty to say it's the only way for them to "prove" anything.

You're completely

allowed

to convince me HEM is town. You're just staunchly refusing to do so, consistently claiming that you simply cannot explain your read on HEM, and then trying to spin grandiose theories about the entire gamestate to somehow "prove" they're town, which is a style of argumentation that I simply don't put any stock in. I'd love you to try to convince me HEM is town on the merits of HEM's play but for some reason you're allergic to that.

You're fully allowed to talk about the reads you have. I'm interested in them as well (particularly Dwlee depending on flips today and how their future play shakes out). But I, and others, have other reads that we're more interested in pursuing today, like HEM or you.

[implosion]

Wallflower's stances so far seem to broadly be summable up as "reasonable" which is not a tell. The points about calling those two posts from Dwlee townish are maybe the most interesting thing there, I think they have at least a bit of merit, but don't know what they say about her alignment. I think she'll be generally readable with more content.

[MathBlade]

Yes they absolutely need to vote HEM to prove they scumread him

Yes it’s the colloquial use of the word proof but it demonstrates the damn point

People don’t want HEM flipping town as it proves me town in the process

Put in a ton of likelies if it makes you feel better

[MathBlade]

And no I am not allowed to do so because any attempts at doing so are brushed off as SvS

You’re freaking word police over here instead of actually addressing the damn point

Most everyone here says preflip associatives are bad

But instead have preflipped HEM scum

Any defense I do if HEM will be completely disregarded