Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[Aristeia]

I should clarify this

One of the things I absolutely hate from Gamma is that he is purely reactive.

This is an antispew tactic if he is actually mafia here.

What are the only substantive pushes he's made?

(1) a vote on Cakes for "reasons" that he's sure Cakes is scum

(2) a vote on me for "trying to dodge responsibility

(3) a vote on TUF for not being around that lasted maybe an hour?



these things make sense from a scum!Gamma POV because they are not useful for spewing alignment.

Cakes/Me are probably the most active pushers of Gamma. If he flips scum, we are spewed town. So him reactively pushing on us does not give the town any extra info if we flip him D1 and he is mafia.

The vote on TUF that lasted for an hour or whatever to "pressure" him really doesn't mean a whole lot either way towards TUF's alignment.

This is what I mean by scum anti-spewing under pressure - he doesn't want to actually pursue an angle of inquiry that spews the alignment of another player if he gets flipped.

This is a valid strategy for scum!gamma to pursue in order to minimize any actual information if he gets flipped - especially if he thinks he will get flipped.

That Beat is taking this lack of engagement from Gamma to the rest of the game as some kind of reason to

not flip him

is absolutely gross and only encourages players to not engage with the rest of the game.

Like I don't know who beat is, or what her level of skill is but this is just an absolutely absurd take.

[Gamma Emerald]

How the fuck do you expect me to not be reactive when no one would let me be for 5 minutes at the start of the game???

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Beat

[Aristeia]

How the fuck do you expect me to not be reactive when no one would let me be for 5 minutes at the start of the game???

you have one vote on you currently

go do your thing

[Aristeia]

Like "I'm being wagoned I'm going to die so I can't do anything" is just a nonstarter for me.

I expect people who are about to die and are town to do things.

Because you are probably the most important person to a town.

If you expect to be flipped

you are going to be

(1) confirmed innocent

(2) the only person who knows 100% for sure you are flipping inno other than the scum

You can see things everyone else can't.

Rise up to the occasion.

[Gamma Emerald]

I should clarify this

One of the things I absolutely hate from Gamma is that he is purely reactive.

This is an antispew tactic if he is actually mafia here.

What are the only substantive pushes he's made?

(1) a vote on Cakes for "reasons" that he's sure Cakes is scum

(2) a vote on me for "trying to dodge responsibility

(3) a vote on TUF for not being around that lasted maybe an hour?



these things make sense from a scum!Gamma POV because they are not useful for spewing alignment.

Cakes/Me are probably the most active pushers of Gamma. If he flips scum, we are spewed town. So him reactively pushing on us does not give the town any extra info if we flip him D1 and he is mafia.

The vote on TUF that lasted for an hour or whatever to "pressure" him really doesn't mean a whole lot either way towards TUF's alignment.

This is what I mean by scum anti-spewing under pressure - he doesn't want to actually pursue an angle of inquiry that spews the alignment of another player if he gets flipped.

This is a valid strategy for scum!gamma to pursue in order to minimize any actual information if he gets flipped - especially if he thinks he will get flipped.

That Beat is taking this lack of engagement from Gamma to the rest of the game as some kind of reason to

not flip him

is absolutely gross and only encourages players to not engage with the rest of the game.

Like I don't know who beat is, or what her level of skill is but this is just an absolutely absurd take.

This seems to conflate pushes for stances. If my stances were this limited it would be problematic, but they aren’t. I have opinions expressed on like 3/4 of the other players in this game. I even forced myself to put down something regarding tw. I find it mind-boggling you think I am in anti-spew mode with my current post count and the point at which pressure started building on me. Like honestly, this is a worse take then the ever-prevalent misconception of “gamma lurks as scum”. And I’ve been pretty vitriolic about denouncing that one so that means it’s BAD.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like "I'm being wagoned I'm going to die so I can't do anything" is just a nonstarter for me.

I did not say this

[Aristeia]

How the fuck do you expect me to not be reactive when no one would let me be for 5 minutes at the start of the game???

this is basically the same thing



you have 1 vote on you currently

no more excuses

[Gamma Emerald]

Skitter knows for damn sure I have been disagreeable as town on the chopping block before. I’ve also done it as scum but the point is saying “town that are about to die are expected to do things” is a bad assumption

[Gamma Emerald]

How the fuck do you expect me to not be reactive when no one would let me be for 5 minutes at the start of the game???

this is basically the same thing



you have 1 vote on you currently

no more excuses

What that means is “I was being pushed around near-immediately so to accuse me of being reactive is disingenuous since I kinda have to be”

[Aristeia]

being pushed to 5 votes does not prevent you from pushing someone who is not voting you or forming an scumread on someone who is not wagoning you

[Aristeia]

Skitter knows for damn sure I have been disagreeable as town on the chopping block before. I’ve also done it as scum but the point is saying “town that are about to die are expected to do things” is a bad assumption

you are no longer on the chopping block

[Aristeia]

This seems to conflate pushes for stances. If my stances were this limited it would be problematic, but they aren’t. I have opinions expressed on like 3/4 of the other players in this game. I even forced myself to put down something regarding tw. I find it mind-boggling you think I am in anti-spew mode with my current post count and the point at which pressure started building on me. Like honestly, this is a worse take then the ever-prevalent misconception of “gamma lurks as scum”. And I’ve been pretty vitriolic about denouncing that one so that means it’s BAD.

ok

let's say it's your opinion you are not anti-spewing.

if we lim you right now and you flip mafia, which of your stances taken so far give this town information that can help us figure out alignments?

[Gamma Emerald]

being pushed to 5 votes does not prevent you from pushing someone who is not voting you or forming an scumread on someone who is not wagoning you

If I had to take a stab at off-wagon scum it’d be Titus and/or Isis

[Meuh]

I even forced myself to put down something regarding tw.

Also this entire conversation was exhausting to read wow

[Aristeia]

like ari i'm sorry if i'm wrong and i feel bad about last game a ton and i hate being wrong

but this is just so ???? from what i'd expect from town-you, this is also p different from how town-you interacts with me usually

i don't want to be wrong and i don't want to force it if i'm wrong (and i'm making a point of not forcing it)
but like if you're town i really don't see it and you'd have to help me get there

ok so here's the thing.

um last game post-flips it was pretty clear that:

(1) I tried to get relly to re-evaluate on Mena

(2) I tried to get mena to re-evaluate on Relly

(3) I hard-shoved Datisi to death - yes peta started it but there was p much no way datisi was flipping on d1.

(4) was pretty solvy the entire game and tried to take roden/nk15 off the table on d2 when everyone else was kind of consensus POEing them and wanted to flip them.[so I'm literally taking the 2 easiest mislims off the table there]

So like if me trying to defuse a tvt 1v1 on d1 that had bop ramifications into d2 and hard shoving Dats and removing POE slots to limit my own mislim opps is not enough to show you that I'm town.

I am not really sure what I can do here on D1 when you have 0 flip information.

Like you're going to either figure out I'm town or you're not and I don't see how I can help you get there - like if a mountain of evidence

post-flip

is not enough, I don't think there's anything I can do

pre-flips

to give you some feeling that I'm town.

I'm a pretty open book when it comes to what I think about each slot in the game - you can ask me anything you want and I'll patiently explain how I think about everything to you.

I can't make up your mind for you - that's just not how it works and if I could I'd just make you think I'm town regardless of my own alignment.

[Aristeia]

and like pls don't feel guilty or whatever about getting my alignment wrong or mislimming me.

It's fine - some people take it really personally - I am not one of them; being mislimmed is part of the game.

The only way a player can really expect to never be mislimmed is if they have extreme divergence between their scum/town games and that's imo borderline cheating.

[Beat]

non engagement is absolutely a valid antispew tactic to take as mafia

Its also something commonly seen in town for many different reasons which is why I consider it mostly NAI especially during day 1.

[Pavowski]

and like pls don't feel guilty or whatever about getting my alignment wrong or mislimming me.

It's fine - some people take it really personally - I am not one of them; being mislimmed is part of the game.

The only way a player can really expect to never be mislimmed is if they have extreme divergence between their scum/town games and that's imo borderline cheating.

Good morning

I am driving home today and just thought I'd see how long the thread got in the meantime... woof

Anyway this is NAI but I love this post from Ari, it has retroactively made me feel better about a lot of games on this site... One of those things that like, is obvious but you don't necessarily realize it until you say it or hear it... Or maybe I'm just super dumb, which is a thing that should never be taken off the table

Ok I'm off to drive for most of the day. Should re-engage tonight.

[Pavowski]

Oh and to give some content on the current discussion I would say that non-engagement trends scummier but is not in and of itself AI, and please ignore my nonexistence over the last several days

Ok the road beckons and I must answer

[the worst]

I'm here I think - today was busy and I'm not like totally absolutely caught up.

VOTE: Ari

I also am starting to not hate the Beat wagon

[Titus]

Not feeling well. Responses may be unclear. 2.5 hours from reading games. Taking day largely off bc ill. Got to covid test point but negative.

[Isis]

VOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

Like you're going to either figure out I'm town or you're not and I don't see how I can help you get there - like if a mountain of evidence post-flip is not enough, I don't think there's anything I can do pre-flips to give you some feeling that I'm town.

I'm a pretty open book when it comes to what I think about each slot in the game - you can ask me anything you want and I'll patiently explain how I think about everything to you.

Thanks <3

If i can think of anything else i'll ask, i appreciate u bearing with me >.>

And you're right, not sure how fair it is to put the onus on you

~

I probably have covid and am not feeling Great so uh not sure how much i'll be around/post for the next couple of days

[Aristeia]

awww

take care of yourself dear

it's just a silly game don't stress