Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Aristeia]

ok I guess that's fair

[Titus]

Those who genuinely think HEM is scum would want to stay on HEM scum. They wouldn’t destroy one wagon to move to a maybe wagon where some people townread me.

Ergo HEM is town and I am town

Restart RVS if you have to.

Or you’re both scum

Also already addressed in why don’t you want to vote HEM?

You’d “prove” me scum (logically impossible) as I am town

No.

Yep

You scumread HEM yet won’t vote him

You don’t want the egg on your face when HEM flips town

This is an odd position from HEM is inevitable I won't push anyone to pushing HEM to have people get egg on their faces. Math is actively encouraging people to vote town in a way. Instead, he should be casing me. However, his big push is my absence and lack of effort which explained by a two day migraine.

[MathBlade]

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

again

this is a game of mafia

it is a game of social deduction

some of us got dealt "mafia rolecards"

that does not make them "pieces of shit"

people have to be mafia for this game to actually work.

I do not know you outside of this game.

I would never say that you are a piece of shit because

I do not know you

This is probably the fourth time I've said this to you.

If you actually believe that my remarks are about you as a person rather than your play in a game where some of us have to lie then I suggest you report me to the appropriate site authorities rather than continue to AtE with this.

if you want me to explain my past behavior, you're gonna have to deal with how i felt at that moment. again and again and again.

I am kinda down to policy HEM

He’s pissing me off

[Titus]

so why dont u vote for hem and prove yourself town

Because then I would eat a ban for town voting town post game

How many times have I policy eliminated you? Eliminating town because of game health? It's not an automatic ban. That being said, I wouldn't do it here nor am I advocating to do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're being ridiculous

it's just kind of gross the way you are characterizing my behavior.

like incredibly disgusting to me

I made a simple request because I thought it would be fun icebreaker and might possibly be useful later

I asked people for three numbers, not a big ask imo

most people refuse to do it

I am fine with that because I don't enjoy forcing people to do things and it's just a game

and your response is to just assume I was never interested in the first place and asking in bad faith.

it's just not a line of thinking that I think is appropriate or remotely decent.

I find it quite icky

I am not calling you scum for it because I don't think being obnoxious is outside of your town range.

okay so it makes me a bad person to react negatively to this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm not hung up on it. i can understand mafia can get heated. i'm just explaining a pov i had.

[Titus]

why even speculate out loud about who is a vig

Normally, I agree this is a bad idea. However, if some people drafted vig and didn't get it, that information might be useful.

[Wallflower]

HEM, when you get the chance I'd like a better idea of your reads, especially on Mathblade. Would you still "die by" the townread there?

Also do you actually think Ari is scum? Your posting sounds like it but I don't get the impression that you really believe that.

--

Out of everyone here, implosion's play feels the most constructed. Every post feels like it's careful to not rock any boats too much, but when you really think about it there's nothing actually that town about implosion. I was first concerned when in Post 158 he dismissed Ausuka's suspicion of him (which I actually vibed quite a bit with when reading through) as "weird", which I know might seem like a trivial thing, but I think it's a pattern of how scum dismiss suspicion on them. A way of appearing not too bothered, not too defensive, whilst subtly discrediting the push on them. Because I don't think there was anytihng weird about Ausuka's posting at all.

I've already mentioned the shift from being "fine" with a HEM wagon but thinking about other options -> being enthusiastic about HEM scum and having more solidified reasons. Again implosion's explanation for this is logical, but the progression was really dissonant with my thought processes when reading the game. While HEM was posting I was feeling more suspicious of them, but then with the V/LA and explanation of their hospitalisation etc. it made their posting and pattern of posting make a bit more sense for me. I don't believe that town become MORE suspicious of someone for not posting reads AFTER finding out that they're actually V/LA due to being in hospital.

The other thing that has concerned me is the interaction with MathBlade. A lot of the response posts and questions from implo to Mathblade do not strike me as actually trying to sort mathblade, and seem more like trying to make Mathblade look bad (and again, very dissonant with the claimed "I can't read Mathblade, I'll let others sort him" approach.

[Dwlee99]

I'm suspicious about Dwlee's progression on HEM. They say in post 480 they're voting HEM to sheep Ari. It definitely comes across as a weak read, saying they were basically just voting HEM because Ari said so until they were able to put more effort into sorting. This is mostly fair but some of their later posts rub me the wrong way with this in mind - particularly this post,

MathBlade and HEM probably are SvS

Math just ignored my response to his terrible read on me

The preflip associative here doesn't feel natural imo. Their read on HEM doesn't seem to have advanced - at least, they haven't shown any visible effort to sort HEM in thread, and considering HEM has been the largest wagon for most of the game I'd expect them to talk about their read more if it had. So tying Mathblade and HEM together as a 'probable' scumteam feels too confident from Dwlee here, if that makes sense.

Math is scum 100%

Similarly with this, I understand how the Dwlee math read could come from town but like, the 100% thing seems way too far, much worse than the whole 'I really feel Dwlee is scum' thing Math did.

You are so tunneled

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: MathBlade

[Titus]

Alright here's where I am

Gamma StD HQ --- Hard town
Bella - Lean Town
Dwlee - Weak Town
HEM implosion Ari Auska - Null (Waiting to see how things play out)


Enchant Wallflower - Problematic
Math - Lean Scum (Needs to stop throwing a fit, cool down, study persuasive people or whatever) That would make him a lot easier to read. I'm ok with eliminating him for now. I just don't see the town motivation in this attitude.

[implosion]

That's the one thing Math can't do well is compromise.

Is this specifically as town, as scum, or both?

Out of everyone here, implosion's play feels the most constructed. Every post feels like it's careful to not rock any boats too much, but when you really think about it there's nothing actually that town about implosion. I was first concerned when in Post 158 he dismissed Ausuka's suspicion of him (which I actually vibed quite a bit with when reading through) as "weird", which I know might seem like a trivial thing, but I think it's a pattern of how scum dismiss suspicion on them. A way of appearing not too bothered, not too defensive, whilst subtly discrediting the push on them. Because I don't think there was anytihng weird about Ausuka's posting at all.

I think part of the reason it struck me as weird is actually sort of complicated - in more mechanically heavy setups, I often am one of the first people out of the gates talking about mech, and I get townread for it (as town) sometimes (e.g. I think this happened in a recent guardians of the fortress game). But I think those townreads are usually not justified because me being competent at mechanical discussion is a function of me, not my alignment, and I don't generally think it'd be beneficial to lie about mech talk as scum. Whereas here, Ausuka called me scummy for

not

talking about mech, in some sense - sort of the inverse, and it felt unjustified in a similar way. I didn't simply dismiss it as "weird" with no other comment, I described why I disagreed with it because faking some meaningful conclusion is not difficult to do as scum.

I've already mentioned the shift from being "fine" with a HEM wagon but thinking about other options -> being enthusiastic about HEM scum and having more solidified reasons. Again implosion's explanation for this is logical, but the progression was really dissonant with my thought processes when reading the game. While HEM was posting I was feeling more suspicious of them, but then with the V/LA and explanation of their hospitalisation etc. it made their posting and pattern of posting make a bit more sense for me. I don't believe that town become MORE suspicious of someone for not posting reads AFTER finding out that they're actually V/LA due to being in hospital.

To be clear: this had nothing to do with hem being gone, and everything to do with me taking a moment, stepping back, and realizing that hem *had* been here and posting a ton for a long time without giving any reads.

The other thing that has concerned me is the interaction with MathBlade. A lot of the response posts and questions from implo to Mathblade do not strike me as actually trying to sort mathblade, and seem more like trying to make Mathblade look bad (and again, very dissonant with the claimed "I can't read Mathblade, I'll let others sort him" approach.

This is absolutely fair - many or even most of those questions aren't really me trying to sort MathBlade, they're more along the lines of... well...

[implosion]

hem, I'm glad to see you posting real analysis on me and Dwlee (and feel better!). Is there a reason you had such a narrow focus on just Aristeia and then Math earlier on in the game? Also, someone (Roden I think) asked for a reads list - could you just give a sort of current gut-feel reads list, without having to go into depth on anyone (though of course you're welcome to)?

[Gamma Emerald]

You really wagon math for townreading hum?
Bruhbruh.

bad pop-in

[Titus]

Is this specifically as town, as scum, or both?

Both. Ari went into detail earlier and you had some annoyance with his ticks. He has to "prove" things and accepts his opinion as facts. As scum, he usually awkwardly compromises after awhile. As town, it's like dragging teeth to get him to his second scumread unless a wagon is there first even if he's otherwise vanity voting. He has a flaw of saying on more thing to persuade. He does that as scum too. So it's different.

The fact Math was "sassing" (my descriptor) by saying he'd give naked reads because that's what everyone else does is odd. His refusal to push a counterwagon to a wagon he's townreading is odd as both alignments. I don't like his refusal to delve deeper so I think he's scum emulating. I could be wrong but I don't like it. I want him to learn how to listen to people and that's not just reading what they write.

[MathBlade]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

Nah I am quite good with you’re content with TvT wagons so you didn’t have to post once you voted HeM you checked out

Then when me your biggest accuser picked up steam you voted me

You still aren’t interacting with the game

[Titus]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

Nah I am quite good with you’re content with TvT wagons so you didn’t have to post once you voted HeM you checked out

Then when me your biggest accuser picked up steam you voted me

You still aren’t interacting with the game

What do you think of my readslist? What's yours look like?

[Titus]

Alright here's where I am

Gamma StD HQ --- Hard town
Bella - Lean Town
Dwlee - Weak Town
HEM implosion Ari Auska - Null (Waiting to see how things play out)


Enchant Wallflower - Problematic
Math - Lean Scum (Needs to stop throwing a fit, cool down, study persuasive people or whatever) That would make him a lot easier to read. I'm ok with eliminating him for now. I just don't see the town motivation in this attitude.

This here Math FtR

[Gamma Emerald]

sorry
you saying FL caused me to bluescreen

anyway Math can have bad reads as town but like Titus there's generally at least an ability to understand where he's coming from
I also think he's generating a lot of friction which feels like it might be indicative of scum!him?
in addition Klick basically did a rinse-repeat of the last time I saw him as scum

Can you talk more about Klick here?

pretty sure I already did?

[Dwlee99]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

Nah I am quite good with you’re content with TvT wagons so you didn’t have to post once you voted HeM you checked out

Then when me your biggest accuser picked up steam you voted me

You still aren’t interacting with the game

I've been calling you scum for days why would I not vote you

[MathBlade]

Feel better HEM.

No on Dwlee. Roden looks bad and I doubt scum match each other.

Dwlee scum for not posting
Titus scum for saying no on Dwlee without quantifying
Ari town
Std prob town but occasional pings

Everyone else I kinda don’t give a fuck since they don’t want to talk and just sat on HEM

Now we have a game I might give a fuck

[Titus]

sorry
you saying FL caused me to bluescreen

anyway Math can have bad reads as town but like Titus there's generally at least an ability to understand where he's coming from
I also think he's generating a lot of friction which feels like it might be indicative of scum!him?
in addition Klick basically did a rinse-repeat of the last time I saw him as scum

Can you talk more about Klick here?

pretty sure I already did?

Humor me and explain please. Brain not firing on all cylinders.

[MathBlade]

I'm this amazing thing called busy

Like I started a full time job for the summer and moved across the country busy

If you have anything that isn't "dwlee isn't posting like a bored college student" lmk

Nah I am quite good with you’re content with TvT wagons so you didn’t have to post once you voted HeM you checked out

Then when me your biggest accuser picked up steam you voted me

You still aren’t interacting with the game

I've been calling you scum for days why would I not vote you

Because you haven’t interacted anywhere else it’s just naked

[Titus]

Feel better HEM.

No on Dwlee. Roden looks bad and I doubt scum match each other.

Dwlee scum for not posting
Titus scum for saying no on Dwlee without quantifying
Ari town
Std prob town but occasional pings

Everyone else I kinda don’t give a fuck since they don’t want to talk and just sat on HEM

Now we have a game I might give a fuck

So Ari is your only solid town read?

[Dwlee99]

You're still saying for not posting lmao