Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Somnus and Cheap are using similar angles and even similar phrasing in some cases to push me.

1 of these is almost definitely scum. I think Cheap has copied Somnus twice now.

[Cheapside]

Yeah, I agree about nightkill analysis, as you can see from my post. I was more worried about you trying to stop discussion. The fact that you openly admit to that is confusing, but I don't think particularly excuses it.

If you're going to suggest I'm copying Somnus, please actually give evidence. Four numbers would be enough, it's not that hard.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll need to wait until I'm on my PC.

But both of you have tried to throw shade my way based on the NK and both of you have used language similar to 'hey, don' t look at this, it makes me look bad but look at this over here instead'

[Rad]

UNVOTE:

I'm not letting Corwin off the hook here, but I don't want to see d2 end without more input from somnus and whiskey.

[Somnus]

Oh I'll be posting later today when I'm back on my PC. I've got something good for you all and Rad is to thank for that. Post 864 got the ball rolling for me and is going to end up being one of the most important posts of the game.

This is a good unvote, by the way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bad unvote.

Need pressure.

[whiskey delta]

873 and 874

Are basically my internal conflict atm. Good unvote though, yeah.

BBT/Cheap are the most common denominators from your post @Rad. The fact all three are on the wagons but the NK makes Bella/BBT look worse is not lost. Like I said, scum control this so in world where it’s Cheap and Bella/BBT are T/T that was a good kill. But I really don’t love how the people saying VCA will be useless are the primary reasons it would be either.

Much confusion. I am chewing on the idea of Town!Somnus and tweaking reads accordingly. The only person I feel really comfortable calling Town until I can review is Rad.

[Rad]

Bad unvote.

Need pressure.

What are we trying to pressure out of him, exactly?

I fully expect him to respond to my 857 with or without an E-1 sitting on him. I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here.

The guy has already claimed VLA, so he could lurk the next 24 hours and actually be a legit sick town.

Tech question for whoever can answer - does town get notified if they were roleblocked by a mafia roleblocker, even if they were not a PR that could be blocked (i.e. a VT)?

[Rad]

I fully expect him to respond to my 857 with or without an E-1 sitting on him. I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here.

I didn't spell out this idea out as much as I should have.

I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here because his reasoning would be pure and easy to explain. A scum!Corwin has to respond because it's a scum slip and he fucked up. E-1 pressure doesn't change either of these facts.

A scum!Corwin could avoid responding though and guarantee my vote on him.

[Somnus]

Bad unvote.

Need pressure.

What are we trying to pressure out of him, exactly?

I fully expect him to respond to my 857 with or without an E-1 sitting on him. I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here.

The guy has already claimed VLA, so he could lurk the next 24 hours and actually be a legit sick town.

Tech question for whoever can answer - does town get notified if they were roleblocked by a mafia roleblocker, even if they were not a PR that could be blocked (i.e. a VT)

?

A VT would not be notified. A town investigative would be given a "no result" PM or whatever by the moderator.

[Bellaphant]

? Can you clarify with some more words?

I'm not sure what else you want me to say, I've been sleeping like trash the last three days and I spent this morning trying to make my insides my outsides, and I mixed up two players trying to post through it. Spartan starting jumping on BBT at like 268 with a pretty omgus you put me at e-1 thing and then literally sat on that all day long. I just went with what was in my head instead of actually looking at my notes, and got Somnus and Spartan mixed up, so 797-813 just don't make sense.

Plus this rad, I am not comfy with this at all.

[Rad]

Bad unvote.

Need pressure.

What are we trying to pressure out of him, exactly?

I fully expect him to respond to my 857 with or without an E-1 sitting on him. I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here.

The guy has already claimed VLA, so he could lurk the next 24 hours and actually be a legit sick town.

Tech question for whoever can answer - does town get notified if they were roleblocked by a mafia roleblocker, even if they were not a PR that could be blocked (i.e. a VT)

?

A VT would not be notified. A town investigative would be given a "no result" PM or whatever by the moderator.

OK thanks. I was going down a thread of how town could determine the setup, but if a VT doesn't get notified, it's no use.

Scum knows the setup right now. If it's a doc setup, scum probably wants to pressure that out in a wagon. If it's not a doc setup, scum has no reason to pressure out a PR because they know there isn't one. Just a thought.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Whiskey, who is saying VCA will be useless?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The relevance of people being on wagons needs pointing out as well.

[Bellaphant]

I said vca-ing particularly on vasex was a bit useless, as I legit think the slot needs reporting. I also said it was useful in terms of looking at who was on a lot of wagons (me, bbt, but also surprisingly cheap)

I also don't think there's masses to say about the nk as it was a really widely tr slot. I think the only more tr slot was WD.

[Rad]

I agree that in hindsight, Spartan NK makes sense. A town!BBT is probably a smart NK out of fear, but so is a town!Spartan (you're both SE's), and Spartan was widely more town read than BBT. Plus a town!BBT not dying makes him even more suspicious. I dunno, Spartan feels like the right move regardless of BBT's alignment. In the scenario where town!BBT is NK'd and town!Spartan survives, I don't think anyone looks at him and says "hmmm why aren't you dead sir??" Instead we'd have a town!Spartan making townie posts and being generally town read. A town!BBT is gimped in d2 because most people read him scum.

I agree with not looking at vasex vca too deeply. On its own, there's at least 1 town who voted him because he was destructive to town (between me, cheap, and corwin who all gave similar reasoning, can't all be scum). At least 2 if we include Bella (though I don't recall her saying this prior to the flip... not saying she didn't, but I don't remember her saying it... will have to check later).

However I think the similarities with the Spartan and Vasex wagons is interesting. As is the current corwin wagon.

[Bellaphant]

....I mean the more actove people are voting and bbt will vote anything that loves but yes.

Yeah, I think I said earlier there was a point I probably could have unvoted and been happier with a vote on ...I can't recall right this sec, probably cor or somnus, but then I checked in and vasex was blowing up.

I really like rads posting today, them and whiskey are the 'town'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cheap and Corwin's votes for Vasex were by far the worst. The problem with this is that it doesn't necessarily make them scum.

As I stated earlier, it would have been very easy for scum to sit back and watch Vasex basically self implode and beg the town to eliminate him. It
wasn't a wagon, or elimination, that scum needed to push or be a part of.

One thing that does stick out is Cheap's vote on Vasex after I unvoted. Like he didn't want the hammer because, in his own words, he forced me to eliminate Vasex.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Cheap is the easy vote here, so I'm suspicious of it. I also relate to his posts really easily, especially his vote at 727.

Hmm, this has pinged me.

Rad, talk to me about Cheap being the 'easy vote'

[Bellaphant]

@rad, explain the cheap thoughts to me? Coz I had a fairly irrational but strong tr on them at the end of the day but then I looked their votes, and then their reads post.

Looking at the reasoning on the votes on vasex is probably somewhat worth it.

@bbt stop thinking my thoughts.

[Rad]

I think Cheap is the easy vote here, so I'm suspicious of it. I also relate to his posts really easily, especially his vote at 727.

Hmm, this has pinged me.

Rad, talk to me about Cheap being the 'easy vote'

Vasex blasted him before death, so if he's town!Cheap scum are going to take advantage of that. He was lurky all of D1, again a town!Cheap lurking is an easy target. His vote was an emotional policy vote, easy to jump on. Coming into D2 I assumed Cheap was going to be an early target, and he was, which gave me pause on him being scum.

FWIW, I also thought Cheap was going to vote you BBT, and that happened. I made this note during night:

"Cheapside wants to lurk, justified his lurking from first post, and is lurking. I think he'll vote BBT in d2."

I think his D1 play was suspicious, and it makes a town!Cheap an easy target. It should be easy for a scum to either let town devour a town!Cheap, or give a little push on him to get town really going. I think that's what we probably saw in a scum!Corwin here.

A scum!Cheap decides to lurk until placing the most suspicious vote on vasex with an appeal to emotion as reasoning. In day 2 he has to spring to action to get suspicion off him.

A town!Cheap is legit upset with how cluttered day 1 has become and can't imagine continuing with the vasex slot. With that slot gone and some legit info on the table, he opens up and participates in a similar (but less lurky) manner as day 1.

*shrug* looking forward to more content from Cheap.

[whiskey delta]

Whiskey, who is saying VCA will be useless?

You literally said something to the effort of there too many wagons and not enough VCs to make VCA worthwhile. I can pull it up again but it’ll have to be later

I said vca-ing particularly on vasex was a bit useless, as I legit think the slot needs reporting. I also said it was useful in terms of looking at who was on a lot of wagons (me, bbt, but also surprisingly cheap)

I also don't think there's masses to say about the nk as it was a really widely tr slot. I think the only more tr slot was WD.

This is fair. I think the meltdown was always coming but it doesn’t absolve anyone for their vote either, is my point. Your reasoning was probably the least bad of the bunch. I picked up the same thing irt Cheap moving their vote a lot D1. That and talking about policy elims

This post reminded me of something irt Corwin. I’m really bugged that he brought that topic back into the game and find it really weird he used a town meta game to push it. Like, did he expect Vasex to blow up there? His mixup confuses me because his original point was true (Somnus snap voted BBT at Daybreak) so I’m hoping he can clarify that. Somnus going aggro here might be Townie but the “this Town is too dumb to follow isn’t my problem” is at the very least not constructive. Town is a collaborative effort my creepy big red eyed friend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cheap was an easy target? Has Cheap come under any real pressure today, I'd say no. So the easy target thing isn't adding up. A lot of people, myself included, are talking about how bad Cheap's vote was etc. But nobody is actually doing anything about it.

I said VCA would be difficult Whiskey, I said nothing about it being useless. The lack of VCs always makes VCA difficult as it's much more effort to track votes.

[Rad]

Cheap was an easy target? Has Cheap come under any real pressure today, I'd say no. So the easy target thing isn't adding up. A lot of people, myself included, are talking about how bad Cheap's vote was etc. But nobody is actually doing anything about it.

I said VCA would be difficult Whiskey, I said nothing about it being useless. The lack of VCs always makes VCA difficult as it's much more effort to track votes.

Sorry what? Sure he doesn't have a huge wagon on him, but surely you don't believe he hasn't been under pressure...

785 - Day 2 begins
789 - Bella suspecting cheap
791 - I read this as BBT considering cheap's vote scummy
795 - Bella voting cheap
797 - Corwin pushing somnus/cheap
801 - Corwin confirming cheap sus, even with a vote on somnus that BBT requested
805 - Corwin confirming cheap sus
810 - BBT calling out cheap for being inconsistent
816 - BBT pushing cheap
818 - Bella calling out cheap on read flipping not feeling genuine
831 - Bella more pressure on cheap
835 - Me pointing out that I believe cheap is the easy vote here, based on the above

3/5 of vasex's wagon are pointing at cheap. This feels like a great move for any scum wanting to get pressure off them for their own vote on a town flip. It's also a reasonable read on cheap, don't get me wrong, you can't all be scum, and I doubt more than 1 are, but I think a town!cheap absolutely gets this kind of reaction from that town flip.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Posting and votes are two different things, no? Sure, a lot of people are accusing Cheap and pointing fingers.

But what are they DOING about it.