Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[implosion]

(but that said, I do think i'll jump back on HEM before voting math atm)

[Aristeia]

what did you even unvote hem for?

[Titus]

HEM + Math would be convenient and easy

I kinda think Math is town just because there has been such a massive divide on him. I feel like I've been put in this weird spot where I'm a bit of a swing vote, and have had several different people try to convince me of their reads on him.

I don't think so as to the conclusion. I've been explicitly confused on Math and posted a theory on HEM that took traction. You may well be a swing vote, but you're not the only one. This observation is why I included [redacted] as the possible third if HEM and Math are both scum.

Rather, the theory I'm running with is that HEM and Math are both scum so they know a third wagon is pointless. Instead, the goal is to save Math to fight another day and to use HEM's flip and contention to show that Math isn't scum.

This would be why Math is more focused on arguing with players on his wagon and FoSing him rather than sorting.

They want use to devolve into an assumption that scum were pushing Math as a counter to HEM.

That's what I am feeling. Not 100% sure if it's right.

[Aristeia]

if the goal was to use hem flip to spew math town i think it wouldve been much simpler and cleaner for math to bus hem instead of expending all his credibility on a hard defense that had no chance of succeeding

[Titus]

Hey catching up

Anyone wanna give me the main events?

Kinda feeling HEM Asuaka based on the VCs.

On a scale of 1-10 how silly is that?

1 = awesome
10 = OMG you have two ICs

Math's first posts out of the gate

[MathBlade]

if the goal was to use hem flip to spew math town i think it wouldve been much simpler and cleaner for math to bus hem instead of expending all his credibility on a hard defense that had no chance of succeeding

Correct this

I have no shame in running the choo Choo bus

What do you feel about HEM Titus?

Roden’s post made me want to reset.

[implosion]

what did you even unvote hem for?

Because I was starting to be convinced that it might be better to vote Math. (And also because Enchant wanted the day to end.)

I'm finding myself generally to be convinced by whoever is online when it comes to him, hence vibing with Roden's post.

[MathBlade]

Hey catching up

Anyone wanna give me the main events?

Kinda feeling HEM Asuaka based on the VCs.

On a scale of 1-10 how silly is that?

1 = awesome
10 = OMG you have two ICs

Math's first posts out of the gate

Yes I own stock in Waffle House (joke)

I am a regular sometimes

Your point?

[Titus]

@Math, I'd like an overview of the gamestate from you. Who is your townblock?

[Aristeia]

i am p sure implo is partnered to hem

[Aristeia]

what did you even unvote hem for?

Because I was starting to be convinced that it might be better to vote Math. (And also because Enchant wanted the day to end.)

I'm finding myself generally to be convinced by whoever is online when it comes to him, hence vibing with Roden's post.

i think town!implo wouldve written why he was convinced rather than use an excuse like this

[MathBlade]

@Math, I'd like an overview of the gamestate from you. Who is your townblock?

I don’t have one.

As I said I am in the middle of resetting right now considering HEM scum

You seem pretty desperate to pair me with HEM.

It kinda feels like you know HEM flips scum.

But I want to vibe check with Ari maybe I am reading this wrong.

But I agree implo and HEM is definitely viable

[Titus]

i am p sure implo is partnered to hem

That was my theory at first and has never left viability. That is a day 2 question.
If Math is town, what's your worldview?
If Math is scum, what's your worldview?
If Math and HEM are both scum, who could be the third?

[MathBlade]

i am p sure implo is partnered to hem

That was my theory at first and has never left viability. That is a day 2 question.
If Math is town, what's your worldview?
If Math is scum, what's your worldview?
If Math and HEM are both scum, who could be the third?

Why is implo a day two question but me a d1 question?

When the people you TR are wanting HEM limmed today?

Wouldn’t both or neither of us be a D1 question?

[Titus]

i am p sure implo is partnered to hem

That was my theory at first and has never left viability. That is a day 2 question.
If Math is town, what's your worldview?
If Math is scum, what's your worldview?
If Math and HEM are both scum, who could be the third?

Why is implo a day two question but me a d1 question?

When the people you TR are wanting HEM limmed today?

Wouldn’t both or neither of us be a D1 question?

I see your wagon as pure town.
Implo scum is contingent upon HEM. You are scummy individually.

[Aristeia]

A smattering of points on hem. I'm going to do this by just going backwards through his ISO because it'll hopefully avoid common ground with previous cases (plus I think their recent play is worse than their early play). And I will start by re-mentioning this. Their most recent post is very similar, and fit in line with what I described of hem's play being aesthetic rather than material: rather than picking out specific people and targeting them, or trying to appeal to specific people on the wagon, or really making any real effort to use their wagon to find scum... they just say "watch out for people who just rode this wagon". That'd be 8 people if the wagon goes to lim. Not exactly a useful statement. In context, as a last post they're making before they won't be available for a while (and where they think they could be limmed while gone) it feels even scummier; I think natural town inclinations in that situation would be things like a final reads list or a couple specific scumreads, or even something vindictive directed at people on the wagon. But a general "this wagon on me is sus" is utterly useless to the town in the event that hem is limmed.

The closest they got to calling out specific people on the wagon was here. They called out Aristeia for a while but even got shaky on that. I think what speaks volumes on their alignment is what's absent in their ISO, rather than what's present. 122 posts and as far as I can tell they have given exactly two actual reads: a now-retracted scumread on Aristeia that is the focus of roughly half their ISO, and an "I'll die by this read" townread on Mathblade. For most of the game they've been the second-most active player and yet they've left not a trace to tie themself to any other player. This is the brunt of what I mean by asethetic rather than substantive: while they are engaging with the game, they are not making any claims, reaching any conclusions, or, to borrow from MathBlade, creating any hypotheses.

this is what implo wrote about hem

it essentially says that hem is scum because hem is antispewing and not really leaving any ties to other players

this is a very good point because in a game like this if you are going down you feel:

1) guilty

2) you dont want to fuck up by spewing other people as town.

if town implo believes this about hem - i see no reason why he would soften his stance on HEM given that since this post hem has come back and given reads on exactly noone. if anything this makes his antispew point about hem even more salient and should cause him to double down on hem scum and want to yeet hem.

instead he is kind of eying mathblade

this makes very little sense from my point of view


say what you want about mathblade but that dude is NOT antispewing at all.

mathblade has mixed it up with pretty much anyone who is online

if mathblade flips scum, it spews a ton of different slots green

harley is probly spewed town

dwlee is probly spewed town

gamma is probly spewed town

titus is probly spewed town

im spewed town

this is just of top of my head i havent actually read all of math's interactions.

so its super weird to me that implo can think pivoting to mathblade makes sense if he believed in his initial point against hem

[Titus]

I disagree you're spewed town if Math is red given your stauch math defense.

[Aristeia]

like for reference look at this game i played with scum mathblade:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351


as soon as he was going down he went straight into antispew

[MathBlade]

i am p sure implo is partnered to hem

That was my theory at first and has never left viability. That is a day 2 question.
If Math is town, what's your worldview?
If Math is scum, what's your worldview?
If Math and HEM are both scum, who could be the third?

Why is implo a day two question but me a d1 question?

When the people you TR are wanting HEM limmed today?

Wouldn’t both or neither of us be a D1 question?

I see your wagon as pure town.
Implo scum is contingent upon HEM. You are scummy individually.

I don’t understand this.

Implo was/is (? I am not sure) on me.

If implo is scum with HEM the wagon on me isn’t pure?

Why do you townread Dwlee?

You said no earlier but I don’t understand why.

[MathBlade]

like for reference look at this game i played with scum mathblade:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351


as soon as he was going down he went straight into antispew

Correct. I very much anti spew as scum.

I managed to pull it off two days before on another alt while being mechanically confirmed scum and got someone else elimmed but I don’t give town anything when it’s more risky

[Aristeia]

I disagree you're spewed town if Math is red given your stauch math defense.

thats fine

its a relative thing

math has a lot of interactions with a lot of people

he cant get himself to shut up

hem is purely antispewing

[MathBlade]

MathBlade error condition triggered
Error 404 life not found

Attempting to reboot life functionality

Requesting feedback on Titus/HEm earlier requested

If I am off track let me know

[Titus]

like for reference look at this game i played with scum mathblade:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351


as soon as he was going down he went straight into antispew

Math doesn't know if he dies here.
Math still is not giving a view of the gamestate but just attacking who shows up. That is antispew. Town!Math either has a theory or does something to get one.

Suppose Math is scum, how does the game look? Who is scum?
If they're both scum, who is the third?

[MathBlade]

My view of the gamestate is either A) I was an idiot earlier and HEM is scum
Or B) I was right and HEM is town

My worldview shifts based on HEM’s alignment

[MathBlade]

I can’t just reset in two seconds

That’s like not how brains work