Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[MathBlade]

if you lim him and he flips town bulletproof maybe we get a UB become bulletproof and soak up another nightkill

Bulletproof is limitless shots.

It doesn’t say 1 shot BP

[Wallflower]

I mean, let’s say that Enchant /was/ shot last night? If Enchant was an ascetic cop then they’d be dead. Which is also useless

[Aristeia]

bulletproof is literally useless

scum win at parity

enchant will

never

clear himself

do you mean it's useless as in "if enchant is town, bp did nothing for us because of parity"? Because the setup starts in evens. Or do you mean it's useless at this point now that we're in odds?

Scum are never going to shoot Town Enchant who is bulletproof

so what is the utility of a Bulletproof Town EnchanT?

nothing

[Aristeia]

I mean, let’s say that Enchant /was/ shot last night? If Enchant was an ascetic cop then they’d be dead. Which is also useless

no because then the slot is

guranteed town

and no longer in POE

and the UB becomes an Ascetic Cop and scum don't know where the UB is

[implosion]

i do not understand what you are trying to argue with that statement. the utility of bulletproof town enchant is that if the doc/rb pair wasn't taken, then enchant becomes softly clear. I don't want to assume that role pair was taken... hence my wanting a massclaim.

[implosion]

(above is @ 3052)

[Aristeia]

a town enchant that is Ascetic cop and gets shot on N1 clears a slot from our POE, makes UB ascetic cop and this is way way better than Bulletproof Enchant being a ???? and we have to use an elimination on him eventually.

[MathBlade]

bulletproof is literally useless

scum win at parity

enchant will

never

clear himself

do you mean it's useless as in "if enchant is town, bp did nothing for us because of parity"? Because the setup starts in evens. Or do you mean it's useless at this point now that we're in odds?

Scum are never going to shoot Town Enchant who is bulletproof

so what is the utility of a Bulletproof Town EnchanT?

nothing

Everything.

That means town enchant doesn’t get shot

Then we just need one other conf town to elo and we win assuming we get one more scum.

It’s a huge advantage

[Gamma Emerald]

I do not see a single reason why anyone should be townreading Enchant on play or mech

He’s the one who got shot when I flip town unless a doctor exists.

There is no guarantee of that.

If a doc flips green then Enchant scum can be considered not before

this is why I SR Ari
her argument that there must be a doc/rb are basically forced to happen because it's the only way her reads track at all

[Roden]

I do not see a single reason why anyone should be townreading Enchant on play or mech

I don't town read him. I'm confirming his pick tonight, then deciding what to do from there.

[Wallflower]

Like I agree on a theory level that I would not have picked BP in Enchant’s position but I know not everyone is going to do what I would do, and I don’t think it’s as nonsense as you say

(@ ari)

[Gamma Emerald]

That condition works for Ari because doc stays hidden
It works for everyone not wanting pass claim

And if scum Enchant (which I think is false) kills a town doctor, scum enchant loses inno.

we have 10 Town Players one of them picked doctor

why the !@#$ do we need a doctor to out to kill Enchant I have no clue

Because if a doctor isn’t flipped and green (not enough just to claim) then the most likely answer is scum shot Enchant.

your mech is just wrong sorry

we assume a doctor exists period

no your mech is wrong

[Aristeia]

yes gamma pls let everyone know you're not doctor by telling them you don't believe a doctor exists

this is great strategy

if we all say how we think a doctor doesnt exist then scum can by poe figure out who the doctor is

very good

[implosion]

a town enchant that is Ascetic cop and gets shot on N1 clears a slot from our POE, makes UB ascetic cop and this is way way better than Bulletproof Enchant being a ???? and we have to use an elimination on him eventually.

What's the point you're trying to prove with this? That Enchant is scum bc taking bulletproof is bad town play?

[MathBlade]

I do not see a single reason why anyone should be townreading Enchant on play or mech

He’s the one who got shot when I flip town unless a doctor exists.

There is no guarantee of that.

If a doc flips green then Enchant scum can be considered not before

this is why I SR Ari
her argument that there must be a doc/rb are basically forced to happen because it's the only way her reads track at all

Yep which essentially means either A she’s screamed she’s doctor so loud scum shoot her or B she’s scum

I don’t really see any other option.

So if she is Doctor she needs to out her heal

And if not then Enchant is confirmed town with (or before) my flip and shut up about it

Let Roden check to remove ascetic doubts.

[Save The Dragons]

why are we assuming optimal plays

[Wallflower]

Idk why we’re operating on the assumption that enchant as town would do what Ari would do

[Wallflower]

Yes exactly

[MathBlade]

We’re not assuming optimal plays

Enchant claimed BP

By definition not ascetic

Scum shot Enchant theory being tested.

[Aristeia]

if you let people get away with plays that favor scum

they will always do them when they are scum

forcing scum to play in a protown fashion is basic strategy

[MathBlade]

I am Bulletproof.

Bruh.

[implosion]

I'm like, philosophically happy to support an Enchant lim but I think a math lim is better play right now and I don't really understand the arguments here beyond like "there's no universe where town Enchant takes bp". And I just, don't agree with that statement, I think it's awful play for myriad reasons (if you're not gonna take ascetic cop, leave it for someone else, and if you're gonna take bp, then actually play the damn game and let people develop townreads on you). But I don't claim to know how Enchant town views mafia games. My guess was that he'd take a vig role and not anything from the ascetic cop pair, tbh.

[Aristeia]

it is so so so so so scumsiding to pick bulletproof instead of ascetic i cant believe you guys are seriously considering letting Enchant get away with this

[MathBlade]

if you let people get away with plays that favor scum

they will always do them when they are scum

forcing scum to play in a protown fashion is basic strategy

This doesn’t favor scum though.

If there wasn’t a missing kill this would be an entirely different conversation.

But there is.

And if I as a VT die to provide unkillable conf town

You bet your butt I take it

[implosion]

if you let people get away with plays that favor scum

they will always do them when they are scum

forcing scum to play in a protown fashion is basic strategy

This sounds like playing in a meta-optimal way to optimize for long-term town win rates instead of playing to optimize for our win rate in this game.